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Father Bowder


Matt
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Hey guyz. I was watchin tv last night and i flicked to another channel and alas another religious show that i was to curiious to watch. Its one of those shows that freeks me out. It about Father bowder and the 1949 exorcism of some kid called robby that inspired the movie the exorcism. Now the 'documentary', tried to be objective and present 2 alternative points of view. Frankly the science part really didnt hold up or convince me which is the scary part.

 

However the exoercism had numerous eye witnesses and and the preist were rodered to keep a day to day account. Im talkin objects being thrown around, things written on the boyz skin, speaking latin. It then ended with if you beleive the devil you must beleive god otherwise were all doomed. Also during it a spanish exorcist was showin parrelels between his exorcisms and that of Father bowder and said, if you see these victims and the devil in them then you will know that their will be centuries and centuries of this unless you die in a state of salvation. I twas just like :twitch: oh shit that little voice of fear was coming back inside my head. (sometimes he likes to poke himself out once in a while when stuff like that freaks me out, i thought i got rid of it)

 

So guyz PLEASE could u shed some light on the matter. I appareciate any responses, even those that joke around but prefer some reasonable responses refering to the exorcism also, because i couldnt find much on it. Thanks champs

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I really don't know. Honestly. I've seen good arguments on both sides (that is, "Bad spirits do exist and can possess people", and "Bad spirits don't exist and/or can't possess people").

 

I say, if a person is insane mentally but an exorcism will help them regain normal function, then by all means do it. I say this as a former patient in a mental hospital. A diagnosis of any mental disease and subsequent hospitalization I can personally say hasn't changed all too much since the 1800's, as in, just lock 'em up and make sure they don't break out. There's almost no actual "therapy" for mental patients, just a sighed resignation to let them live out the rest of their days behind locked doors unless they spontaneously cure themselves. Needless to say it doesn't happen often - least of all in the schizophrenic patients.

 

So if it would be a choice between lock this person up forever or give them an exorcism that would restore them to a normal life, I'd go for the exorcism. I have no idea how they work but if it did work, I'd go for it.

 

Of course a exorcism is a big lengthy deal and I wouldn't just dump one on any mentally ill person. Neither does the Catholic church. You actually have to go through quite a collection of hoops before they'll grant you one.

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How would the existence of evil spirits prove Xianity?

 

I think that evil spirits do exist, but that all it takes is an exercise of willpower and personal courage to fend them off. The same emotions that are brought to the fore when a Xian tells you to use the name of Jebus to fend off evil spirits can be summoned with any religious imagery or none at all, I think. And if evil spirits prey only on certain individuals who happen to be susceptible to some paranormal influence, then it lies in the individual to repel the attacks, no?

 

Just because Xian exorcism rites offer a person (alledgedly) under the influence of an evil spirit the imagery needed to help summon forth enough courage and willpower to scare off said evil spirit, doesn't make the rest of the contradictory, proofless, cruel, absurd, and utterly asinine religion true.

 

Exorcism rites exist in more than just Xian religions, too.

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Hey sage. I also beleive in some sort of afterlife. But the evil spirit in this particular incident claimed to be satan himself. The big bad fella. If their is a Satan then that could imply the jesus man. I really dont like this, creeps me out. Varohkar, you have an interesting take on the whole thing. But the problem is the person exorcised made specific reference to himself as satan and the name of the 'son' seemed to 'hurt' him. AHR. Im bringing this topic up now because i couldnt find any articles on this website about father bowders exorcism. help plz. THNX

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really how old was the kid, did they do an x-ray, to bad they didnt have MRI's back then. what was in the kids past so he became "posessed?"

there is a such thing as schizophrenia in youths, but usually schizophrenia is a genetic diesease with an onset in late adolescents for males, and early to mid twenties for females. where is all these exorcisms nowadays? perhaps a neurologist can examine a posessed kid, show abnormalities and the church rules out possesion. you know im very interested in the metaphor of it all. lack of god can be easily miscontrued with delusional schizophrenia, back when the physiological brain abnormalities were unknown. did you know that there is no mystics (neurotic-schizos) these days compared to pre-industrial revolution because its a caused by a lack of vitaminC in the diet. back in the days where food consumption was highly seasonal, there happened to be many certified 'mystics.' research how many possesions were recorded through history and compare it with the past 20-30 years. consider what the has changed in society and medicine to bring about these changing statistics. research neurology and neuro-pathology, i think you will be surprised that because the documentary didnt convinced you, arming yourself with knowledge will.

the facts about what the kid says means little, you will find this out when your start getting into jungian pychology and the personal unconscious.

i watched my great grandfather die by myself, in an empty room that my family was convinced was in a haunted house. it was my third birthday and i went to ask him if he wanted any cake. (he had alzheimers btw) for years i told my mom that i saw jesus hanging crosses on the wall around him a gave specific details about the his attire.. the were amazed by this cause i was so young they thought that there was no way i could know about this..guess what.. i had seen pictures they didnt know about (it was all a total lie and i felt compeled to do it right when the pastor was standing there, why.. i was an attention whore kid remember i was three and i also just got over the crupe, had a fever for days) i also told the preacher that we dont just die "we are born over and over till we learn all we can from this world." i was a baby and never been to any other religious ceremony than a prodestant one. i probably heard it somewhere thats all. it means very little when you start to know the details and understand the mind theoretically.

 

and the concept of posession is way older than the catholic church btw.

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Bipolar disorder is another that, when a person is in a manic episode, they can do very crazy things. They can speak weird, self-mutilate, overpower strong men and women, etc. My mother actually had to have 3 police officers (big ones) to restrain her during her manic episode. She also managed to get her hand out of a handcuff on the way to the hospital! Their pain sensitivity is somewhat reduced because they are being flooded with euphoric feelings. She thought she was Jesus for a while. Mental disorders are most likely the cause for any such "possession." Also, the fact that the person was sensitive to the word "jesus" or mention of him just proves the culture in which he was brought up in was influencing the manifestion of his episode. If he was Hindu, he probably wouldn't be sensitive at all to the name of Jesus being spoken. Because the person probably knew about Christianity, that is the pathway the mental illness took to show itself. It is in this way that religion and thoughts of a spiritual realm encourage mental illness. I see how this can happen in every psych class I take. The more I learn about psych and how the brain works with the influence of culture, the more I see how religious ideas (mainly the highly spiritual realm emphasis, such as spiritual warfare) give a way for mental illness to manifest itself. However, people that are non-religious often think aliens are communicating with them. I guess the crazy mind will find a way.

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Thanx for the comments guyz. Good stuff. The kid in question was part of a lutheran family that did not have anything to do with exorcisms or possesions. The lutherin priest didnt know wtf goin on and actually recommended a catholoic priest. The child in question was not very religious, or was the family, in fact jst prior to the 'posession', his aunt had died who a few months before, he was using the widgy board with. The family was 'spiritual', not very 'christian'. The spanish exorcist said that 1 in 1000 cases are actual posessions, so he aknowledges the medical reasons, but why 1 in 1000, i dunno. This shit spooks me out. Even if this is all real....jesus/god is an asshole on the account he would allow the boy to be possesed and created the 'evil' things. MORE COMMENTS, im luvin it. So yeh a few more things on the case ^^^. basically he seemed to be an ordinary young teenager.

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What the heck Matt, how can you say something like Jesus being an asshole for allowing a little boy being possessed? :grin: just kiddin with ya. But yet, it's a pretty bold statement from you, and I haven't heard that version before either, but it's true, it's quite unfair of God to let people become possessed against their will. What kind of argument for "free will" is there if someone is forced against their will?

 

Another point is, if someone blaspheme God or the HS etc, they are condemned to hell, but then someone is possessed against their will, and start blaspheme. Will the person go to hell for this or not? Or maybe the demon goes to hell, and the person goes to heaven?

 

Or the other way around, what about if someone blaspheme, and we don't know if they're possessed. Can it be he/she has an unknown demon in them, so they actually are homefree too, and will go to Heaven still?

 

What about, maybe everyone that's apostate like me are misled by a demon inside, so in the end we'll go to Heaven, because it wasn't our fault, but something that was forced upon us against our will?

 

The session of random questions for the day is over.

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