narcissist Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 There’s this guy at work. Like all the folks at the place I work, he’s a top bloke. But he is a vocal Christian. Every now and then he’ll be faithfully marketing his product to anyone in earshot. And not a week goes by when he’s telling us something about how bad the gays and/or muslims apparently are, and contrasting it with how good Christianity is, or something like that. Now there’s also this woman at work. She is of Dutch heritage and has spent a number of years in The Netherlands, and, perhaps not surprisingly, has a very liberal, left wing view of the world, almost diametrically opposed to the Christian. Occasionally, these two will engage in a semi-friendly discussion/debate about religion or morality or something else. Normally, I just keep my mouth shut and try to stay out of these discussions and get on with my work. But today I couldn’t keep quiet any longer. This guy was dismissing some claim that was made by her as a “generalisation” then immediately made a generalisation himself, that Christianity treats women and men equally. At this point I had to speak up, and point out his generalisation. He then said he obeys the NT. To illustrate how unequal Christianity is on gender issues I had to point out that if he obeys the NT, then he shouldn’t allow his wife to speak at church. Then he pulls the classic Christian response: That was the culture of the time it was written. Well, I was having none of that. Either you’re obeying the New Testament, or you’re obeying your religion, which has changed to suit “the culture of the time”. Anyway, the discussion continued and changed to other things, as discussions with Christians in the back foot often do, and eventually petered out, as we both wanted to get on with our work. One of the things the discussion moved onto was the “golden rule”. His claim was that it originated with Jesus. I countered that it’s universal. He then countered that the Muslims (of course) got that idea from Jesus. I know the OT at least implies the golden rule, and other religions spout similar ideas, but nothing would come to mind at the time. I hope I don’t make a habit of this. I like our working relationship and I don't want to wear it out with pointless religious arguments, but perhaps I'm being a little naive (?). Thanks for letting me get it of my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Mother Atheist Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Wow. Hopefully he has been challenged to think on some things! That is what I always hope for when engaging in a semi-debate. I also have this plaque up in my house that came from my grandfather's house after he passed away. Here is what it says: The Golden Rule Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. -Buddhism What is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man. That is the entire law; all the rest is commentary. -Judaism Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. -Christianity No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. -Islam Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself. -Baha'i Faith Every religion has something like the golden rule- most tend to lose sight of it. Ironically, Judaism says that this is the LAW and the rest is COMMENTARY, yet they have all these other things they have to do and so does Christianity. Anyway, I just thought that might interest you. If only everyone would sort of just go by this principle and forget the hell fire and brimstone, I might be able to be more tolerant of the Christian type. Oh, and on the guy at your work saying stuff about Muslims- that really burns me. I had a Muslim friend who I asked millions of questions concerning his religion. People don't realize that in some places Islam is like Christianity, almost identical in most respects. The current portrayal of Muslims as violent and such is only in those places where the politics are mixed with the fundamentalist religion- and Christianity could turn into that any day (it is in some cases already). You can remind him of all the raping, pillaging, and supposed savage converting (read destroying of whole cultures here) that Christians have done for years, even according to their own holy book commanded by their own God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Then he pulls the classic Christian response: That was the culture of the time it was written. Well, I was having none of that. Either you’re obeying the New Testament, or you’re obeying your religion, which has changed to suit “the culture of the time”. Ask him for Chapter and Verse to prove "the culture of the time" interpretation of the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible is it said that it should be read in the light of its time. That is what historians and text critics say. So if he wants to read the Bible based on its culture, then he should do that with the Romans 1 and the issue about homosexuality. He should do it for every command and law in the OT too. He can't pick the verses that are to be "cultural" and the once that are not. One of the things the discussion moved onto was the “golden rule”. His claim was that it originated with Jesus. I countered that it’s universal. He then countered that the Muslims (of course) got that idea from Jesus. I know the OT at least implies the golden rule, and other religions spout similar ideas, but nothing would come to mind at the time. Philosophers and religions had it long before Jesus. The difference is that the Bible version is active while most others are more passive. Passive: Don't hurt others, the same way you don't want to be harmed Active: Do good things to others, same good things you want to happen to you Wikipedia have a long explanation and a long list of Golden Rules: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule_%28ethics%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Aw, c'mon now! You can't expect me to believe that all those other religions came up with their versions of the "Golden Rule" BEFORE Jesus said it? Actually, it was the Devil, knowing beforehand what Jesus was going to say, who inspired these religions to speak such LOVING and INTELLIGENT words. Satan did it to confuse mankind. Yeah, yeah! THAT'S the ticket! Fuck, but it's hard work playing a Fundy nujob! My head hurts now. I must go lay down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I had to share a cube with a born again evangelical fundy for 8 months. All he wanted to talk about was religion. Eventually I got my own cube. However, I learned from that how to deal with religious idiots at work. I just refuse to discuss religion at work. It's really none of their business what me or anyone else believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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