I Just Finished Reading

[nicoleeann]

Why did i do it? Because i needed to be reminded of gods "love" I am going to finish off the rest of the bible in the next few days (I'm a well above average speed reader)

Here is what I discovered:

 

god has a physical body-he eats and has all the other senses

In genises god refers to "us" and also he is three visitors in a story.

polygamy is not a sin-concubines are aloud

women are objects to be taken or sold as pleased

strange rules regarding clean and unclean animals

god loves the smell of burning animals

The sacrificing of animals had extroidinarily strange rules

men could sleep with their servents if thier wives couldn't produce babies.

god lead the isrealites out of slavery-but encouraged them to get slaves. slaves can be badly beaten but not killed because they are property.

Lot sent his virgin daughters out to be raped

Jacob marries Leah and Rachel-I thought it was interesting that he slept with Leah and did not even notice it was her until the morning-some wedding night

if a man dies his wife goes to his brother

The story of Moses and Pharoh-god purposely hardened pharohs heart so that he could cause them pain and suffering so that his "glory" would be shown.

god punishes the children for the sins of the father to the 3rd and 4th generation.

a man can sell his daughter as a servent.

a woman who just gave birth or is on her period is unclean-a man who has NE is unclean

anyone who has damaged testicles may not be in the lords prescense

god will punish you for your sins 7 times over

breaking the sabbath results in stoning

wives and children are killed for the sins of the father

the lord can and will hate people

if a man rapes a girl he simply must buy her and marry her

a man can divorce his wife if he finds someting displeasing about her.

The tower of babel:there were more than one god-they were afraid of man becoming like them-this makes me think that these god was a highly powerful human or prescense with superpowers-god didn't want to be found out that he could be defeated.

the bible also refers to other "gods" but does not say that they are false gods. merely that the lord is better than them.

The bible has not mentioned satan yet-which is strange.

 

reading these things has really helped me to reject xianity more.

[mwc]

Going through the bible "full speed" like this really lets you see the evolution of god (and I'm a slowish reader) doesn't it? You can see various "god" ideas coming together (the plural gods with the monotheistic god). The "superman" god into a supernatural deity. The strange rituals. The odd myths. The old tribal ways of thinking. It's just amazing how anyone could read through it and miss all of this stuff. Of course I have to admit I did time and time again but still.

 

However when you said "reading these things has really helped me to reject xianity more." didn't you really mean to say "reading these things has really helped me to strengthen my faith. " (sorry...couldn't resist)

 

mwc

[Young Mother Atheist]

Wait till you get to Mark. The whole "Jesus is so loving and charitable" thing? Yeah- it doesn't happen. He is a total asshole and talks about a kingdom of god that is secretive. He even specifically says that no one will understand the parables he talks in- he has to explain them to his disciples in private. And he talks about spreading the good news, but he never says what that is. There is so much more as well. It's all such crap. Even once I wasn't a Christian anymore I had this impression that Jesus was still loving and taught some good things, but he didn't! Reading the earliest written of the gospels really shed some light on Jesus. Of course, the other gospels written much later start adding some nice Jesus is love stuff because, well, that's who they wanted him to be. It is really obvious as you read. That's why I've kept the Bible around. I can't believe I supported that book and that religion for so long!

[duderonomy]

Amen's to all of the above.

 

For me, it was really reading the Bible for myself, instead of listening to sermons and reading books and etc. about the Bible, that made me see that it just can't be for real.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again... nowhere does Jesus say 'the truth will make you free'. He says, 'If you continue in My Word, you will know the thruth, and the truth will make you free'.

 

Now that's ironic.

[freeday]

Wait till you get to Mark. The whole "Jesus is so loving and charitable" thing? Yeah- it doesn't happen. He is a total asshole and talks about a kingdom of god that is secretive. He even specifically says that no one will understand the parables he talks in- he has to explain them to his disciples in private. And he talks about spreading the good news, but he never says what that is. There is so much more as well. It's all such crap. Even once I wasn't a Christian anymore I had this impression that Jesus was still loving and taught some good things, but he didn't! Reading the earliest written of the gospels really shed some light on Jesus. Of course, the other gospels written much later start adding some nice Jesus is love stuff because, well, that's who they wanted him to be. It is really obvious as you read. That's why I've kept the Bible around. I can't believe I supported that book and that religion for so long!

 

 

not trying to start a war here, just making a simple statement. i thought the reason Jesus spoke in parables and was semi-secrative was to keep the pharasees of his back until it was time for him to be crucified. basically, if he would have outright told everyone his identify he would have been crucified quicker, not allowing him enough time in his ministries and miracles.

 

on topic. man i wish i could read that fast.

[RHEMtron]

breaking the sabbath results in stoning

In what literal sense

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

not trying to start a war here, just making a simple statement. i thought the reason Jesus spoke in parables and was semi-secrative was to keep the pharasees of his back until it was time for him to be crucified. basically, if he would have outright told everyone his identify he would have been crucified quicker, not allowing him enough time in his ministries and miracles.

 

 

 

What was the purpose of his ministry? If it was to teach the masses, he did a very bad job. If the purpose was to be executed, then why not tell everyone outright, "I'm the Messiah," and go straight to his execution?

 

Freeday, the argument you give is one that I was often taught in church, but it really smacks of a justification for a failed ministry made up after the fact by Paul and other early christians. Jesus starts out as a religious reformer and rabble rouser, annoys the authorities, gets put to death, the whole enterprise looks like a failure - what a stroke of genius to claim your leader's execution is really a victory planned all along!

[Variable]

The surest way to bring about a Christian's deconversion is to encourage him/her to actually read the bible. Polls that have been taken to measure the "biblical literacy" of Christians have shown that only 2% of professing Christians have both read the entire bible and take it literally.

[Young Mother Atheist]

Freeday,

 

What was ironic to me in reading the book of Mark was that Jesus did most everything in secret. Most of the time after he healed someone, he would tell them not to tell. However, "He said to them, 'Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand? For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open'" (Mark 4:21-22). To me that sounds like Christians are supposed to go and share what is going on. Also, he states his purpose: ""Let us go somewhere else to the nearby villages so I can preach there also. That is why I have come" (Mark 1:38). So if his purpose is to preach then he should be doing so in a way that benefits people. However, here is the passage I am referring to that shows he is trying to be secretive with the intent or meanings of his teachings: "When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding;

otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" (Mark 4:10-12). This is after he told a parable that is a little difficult to understand, as most are. He is saying that the disciples gathered around him were the only ones that would know what was meant by the parables because they had gained entrance to some "secret kingdom of God". Now, that doesn't sound like a kingdom that everyone is invited into, does it? And furthermore, he even winds up having to explain the parables to the disciples when they are in private anyway because they are so hard to understand: "With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything" (Mark 4:33-34). If the disciples who were with him all the time and heard all of his teachings couldn't understand, how could the average hopeless peasant? I was very dissapointed to find that I had been scammed, mainly by teachers and the other much later written gospels, to think that Jesus cared about the poor and downtrodden and wanted to teach them of love and a better way. He didn't, according to these verses.

[Toxic]

Why did i do it? Because i needed to be reminded of gods "love" I am going to finish off the rest of the bible in the next few days (I'm a well above average speed reader)

Here is what I discovered:

 

god has a physical body-he eats and has all the other senses

In genises god refers to "us" and also he is three visitors in a story.

polygamy is not a sin-concubines are aloud

women are objects to be taken or sold as pleased

strange rules regarding clean and unclean animals

god loves the smell of burning animals

The sacrificing of animals had extroidinarily strange rules

men could sleep with their servents if thier wives couldn't produce babies.

god lead the isrealites out of slavery-but encouraged them to get slaves. slaves can be badly beaten but not killed because they are property.

Lot sent his virgin daughters out to be raped

Jacob marries Leah and Rachel-I thought it was interesting that he slept with Leah and did not even notice it was her until the morning-some wedding night

if a man dies his wife goes to his brother

The story of Moses and Pharoh-god purposely hardened pharohs heart so that he could cause them pain and suffering so that his "glory" would be shown.

god punishes the children for the sins of the father to the 3rd and 4th generation.

a man can sell his daughter as a servent.

a woman who just gave birth or is on her period is unclean-a man who has NE is unclean

anyone who has damaged testicles may not be in the lords prescense

god will punish you for your sins 7 times over

breaking the sabbath results in stoning

wives and children are killed for the sins of the father

the lord can and will hate people

if a man rapes a girl he simply must buy her and marry her

a man can divorce his wife if he finds someting displeasing about her.

The tower of babel:there were more than one god-they were afraid of man becoming like them-this makes me think that these god was a highly powerful human or prescense with superpowers-god didn't want to be found out that he could be defeated.

the bible also refers to other "gods" but does not say that they are false gods. merely that the lord is better than them.

The bible has not mentioned satan yet-which is strange.

 

I wonder why they never mentioned any of these things in Sunday School!

[Ouroboros]

breaking the sabbath results in stoning

And Jesus and his disciples broke it.

[freeday]

breaking the sabbath results in stoning

And Jesus and his disciples broke it.

 

i covered my thoughts on this a while back in another post, i will see if i can find it.

 

 

Freeday,

 

What was ironic to me in reading the book of Mark was that Jesus did most everything in secret. Most of the time after he healed someone, he would tell them not to tell. However, "He said to them, 'Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand? For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open'" (Mark 4:21-22). To me that sounds like Christians are supposed to go and share what is going on. Also, he states his purpose: ""Let us go somewhere else to the nearby villages so I can preach there also. That is why I have come" (Mark 1:38). So if his purpose is to preach then he should be doing so in a way that benefits people. However, here is the passage I am referring to that shows he is trying to be secretive with the intent or meanings of his teachings: "When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding;

otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" (Mark 4:10-12). This is after he told a parable that is a little difficult to understand, as most are. He is saying that the disciples gathered around him were the only ones that would know what was meant by the parables because they had gained entrance to some "secret kingdom of God". Now, that doesn't sound like a kingdom that everyone is invited into, does it? And furthermore, he even winds up having to explain the parables to the disciples when they are in private anyway because they are so hard to understand: "With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything" (Mark 4:33-34). If the disciples who were with him all the time and heard all of his teachings couldn't understand, how could the average hopeless peasant? I was very dissapointed to find that I had been scammed, mainly by teachers and the other much later written gospels, to think that Jesus cared about the poor and downtrodden and wanted to teach them of love and a better way. He didn't, according to these verses.

 

i understand where you are coming from. i wish he would have been a little more clear about the message being he was the source. but i think that it was not his purpose, he was here to fullfill the prophecies and create a movement from judiasm to christianity. i think he left the desciples the responsibility to explain it and establish the early church.

[mwc]

not trying to start a war here, just making a simple statement. i thought the reason Jesus spoke in parables and was semi-secrative was to keep the pharasees of his back until it was time for him to be crucified. basically, if he would have outright told everyone his identify he would have been crucified quicker, not allowing him enough time in his ministries and miracles.

Wasn't this the guy that was always talking about how his time hadn't yet come and magically walking through angry mobs and all that jazz? Sounds like he was the one pretty much in control of when he was going to get taken out as per the pre-ordained plan so I see no reason he couldn't simply come right out and give his message in a straight forward fashion. Also, there wasn't then and still isn't to this day any law against proclaiming yourself to be the Messiah so he could have done so without any legal problems (it's not like he would have said it and then gotten dragged outside of town and killed for doing so). So where's the problem? Oh, right...the blasphemy. He deserved that after all.

 

mwc

 

 

i understand where you are coming from. i wish he would have been a little more clear about the message being he was the source. but i think that it was not his purpose, he was here to fullfill the prophecies and create a movement from judiasm to christianity. i think he left the desciples the responsibility to explain it and establish the early church.

If we assume jesus was a perfect being you're telling me that you wish a perfect would have been a little more clear? A perfect being would have delivered its perfect message in a perfect fashion, ergo, the message was delivered perfectly. For a perfect being to rely on imperfect beings to augment the perfect message with their imperfect interpretations is, well, imperfect. Oh well...like I said...that's only if we assume.

 

mwc

[narcissist]

Excellent summary, nicoleeann.

 

Could possibly be made into a 'spam' email to send to xn friends.

[Young Mother Atheist]

Freeday,

 

Jesus didn't say that was his purpose though. He actually states, in Mark, that his purpose was to come for the sinners and to preach. If you think it is anything else, you aren't believing what the Bible actually says. However, I suppose that the NT says many different things on this topic, depending on which gospel is read and when it was written. As the writings get farther away from the actual event, more and more aspects are added to Jesus' supposed purpose.

[nicoleeann]

I have just made it to Samuel I.

 

What really has stuck out to me is that "god" purposely used mind control on several people-Pharoh, Saul, other countries-which is taking away their free will.

 

I also noticed that Saul was possessed by one of "gods" EVIL SPIRITS. Weren't we taught that evil spirits are of the devil?

 

I have also read some of Psalms which refered to the Isrealites as gods annointed ones. now i fully understand where the calvanist are comming from. It is evident that "god" picked the ones he wanted saved.

 

It seems like Dave and John were lovers

 

It also said that god could not change his mind.-but, he seemed to do it alot in the bible.

 

It makes reference to "the ends of the earth"(flat earth)

[Guest indy107]

I just started reading the bible again. I couldn't get past Genesis before I had to put it down.

 

god walked with adam? and spoke to him?

 

god told adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge he would surely die.

adam did eat the apple and lived to be over 800yrs old? did god just lie?

 

adam and eve had 2 sons. one killed the other and god has to ask "where is your brother?" uh - shouldn't he 'know' being omni-everything?

 

god had the living brother marked so the 'others' wouldnt kill him. what others?

 

the 'sons of god' liked the way the 'daughters of man' looked and took them for wives? who in the heck are the sons of god? wasnt that jesus?

what the heck is a nephilim? only the KJ version uses the word giant....what the heck?

 

confusing crap

 

indy

[Toxic]

And what about Genesis 3:22 "then the Lord god said 'Behold, the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil'". Why the plural? how many gods are there? (although aplogetics try to expain this by saying that he actually means about the trinity)

[quicksand]

but i think that it was not his purpose, he was here to fullfill the prophecies and create a movement from judiasm to christianity.

That's quite a claim, seeing as Jesus – a Jew, could only believe in one, monothlithic god. For him to believe that he was in fact God, would completely be non-Judiac and polytheistic.

 

But never mind all that – Jesus came to establish a religion after him. Okay.

 

In that case, the Jews are delivered, all the prophecies have been fulfilled, sin has been vanquished, and Christianity is irrelevant and the bible and crucifixion is nothing but a footnote in history.

[MQTA]

now.. if you read it as if God was just a head scientist, and all the angels are scientists with jet packs, and they cloned/created all life using DNA manipulations... and US, utilizing their own DNA... does the bible make even MORE sense?

[OnceConvinced]

Nicoleann, you almost missed the story about Lot's daughters getting him drunk so they could have sex with him.

[Crunk Bishop]

yeah, I love that passage where God sits down with Abraham to eat bread in Genesis 18. I consulted my ancient tables and measures chart and compared the yields with bread recipes from Fanny Farmer's cookbook, and found that the Genesis recipe would yield more than 40 loaves of bread.... my what a hearty appetite!

 

This is a short list of curious Bible passages I've made:

 

Genesis

 

Creation Stories: Genesis 1:1-2:4a, Genesis 2:4b-3:24. Notice the different order of events in the texts and the heading "These are the generations

of the heavens and the earth when they were created." in Gen 2:4.

 

See also Psalm 74:12-17, Psalm 89:5-18. In these passages, God fights with monsters and then the creation of the world is described.

Classic example of a "conflict myth." (Like Enuma Elish)

 

Abraham's Suzerain Treaties with God: Genesis chapters 15 and 17. God promised to give land and children to Abram in exchange for his loyalty.

Gen 15 is from the Old Epic tradition "J." Notice how God tells Abram that he is a "shield," which is a warrior motif. Gen 17 is from "P." Notice

the pedantic attention to detail and the introduction of male circumcision to the covenant.

 

God eats nearly 40 loaves of bread with Abraham and Sarah: Genesis 18:1-8 (Three "measures" is almost 21 quarts of flour, which would produce nearly

40 loaves according to the Fannie Farmer Cookbook.)

 

People can see God and live: Hagar (Gen 16:13), Abraham (Genesis 18:1), Jacob (Gen 32:30), Moses and Aaron with elders (Exodus 24:9-11)

Or, no one can see God and live: Exodus 33:20

 

 

Exodus

 

For some weird reason, God tried to kill Moses right after he called him: Exodus 4:24-26

 

Egyptian plague traditions: Exodus 7:8-11:10, Psalm 78:44-51 and Psalm 105:28-36. Ps. 78 only recounts 8 plagues and is probably from the "J"

tradition. Ps. 105 and Exodus are priestly renditions, containing the 10 plagues.

 

Parting the "Sea of Reeds": Exodus 14:21-30

 

Ten Commandment traditions: Exodus 20:1-26 (E), Exodus 34:17-26 (probably J, with other laws included) and Deuteronomy 5:1-33 (D) .

Notice how Exodus 20 said that the mountain is called Sinai and Deuteronomy called the place "Horeb."

 

Court History

 

Who killed Goliath?: David (1 Samuel 17:17-58) or Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)? 1 Chronicles 20:5 attempted to reconcile the problem, saying that Elhanan

killed "Lahmi" the brother of Goliath... leaving us to presume that David killed Goliath after all.... or did he??

 

Who inspired David to order a census of Israel? Was it God (2 Samuel 24:1) or Satan (1 Chronicles 21:1)? The secret to interpreting this discrepancy is provenance.

Samuel was written before the Exile and Chronicles was written after the exile. Both passages seem to agree that the census was bad and led to a plague. The

pre-exilic Israelite theology of Samuel believed that evil comes from God. The post-exilic view claimed that God was never responsible for evil... making Satan a

necessary theological development.

 

YHWH and his Asherah: http://www.theology.bham.ac.uk/guest/Ancie...ael/asherah.htm

 

Cyrus I of Persia (the Great) is named the "Messiah": Isaiah 45:1

[KT45]

I am going to finish off the rest of the bible in the next few days (I'm a well above average speed reader)

Did you finish?

[Guest Mr. XC]

What would be neat would be to read the undisputed Pauline Epistles (Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon) followed by a translation of the Lost Sayings Gospel known as Q to see if Paul and Q are talking about totally different people calling themselves Jesus. And see how well Mark incorporates the two sources above and as well as creating new literature inspired by parts of the Old Testament.