Islam; A Pathway To Peace Or Destruction?

[Golden Meadows]

OMNI: Well, you all arguments are again and again stressing on only one base argument that is : "the miraculous conceived child"

GM: I think the emphasis should be Isaac being the child promised by Yahweh and not Ishmael who was a result of Abraham and Sarah's impatience. If you read my post again I gave an analysis of the text to support my argument, so its not entirely accurate to suggest I have only stressed "one base argument." Isaac was a gift of Yahweh to Abraham and Sarah and in a certain sense was a child of Yahweh in a special way because of this. When Yahweh commands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac he is sacrificing "his only son" as well, figuratively speaking; in doing so, according to xtians, foreshadowing the sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary.

 

OMNI: and you assume that Ismail was not at all by any means too a miraculously concieved child.............In this case, the birth of Ismail is probably more a miracle then the birth of Ishaq.

GM: Definition mir·a·cle 1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves. [American Heritage Dictionery]

The birth of Isaac cannot be explained by any known natural means whereas Ishmael's birth can. Men have become fathers at ages greater than Abraham when Ishmael was conceived. The oldest man I can find on a basic Internet search became a father at 93. On the other hand the oldest mother I can find doing the same kind of search is 66 and this was with the benefit of modern fertility treatments - see end of my post for supporting references. The birth of Ishmael is within the boundaries of known science, no matter how rare, but no way is Isaac's reported conception. None of the quotes you provided deny with their data the miraculous birth of Isaac and none of them affirm what you alone claim to be the miraculous birth of Ishmael.

 

OMNI: I do hope that you would have concieved the message that our advance research would prove to us that what is right and what is wrong so, we need not to stress this only argument of miraculous and miraculous.

GM: Yes the bible does indeed describe the conception of Isaac as being miraculous through the great age of Sarah and Abraham, the same cannot be said of Ishmael and I have given practical examples to back up my argument. It makes no sense at all for Sarah to give another elderly woman, well beyond child bearing age, to act as a surrogate mother for herself as I think you may be suggesting. Further I have emphasized that Isaac and not Ishmael was the child subject to Yahweh's promise. All this coupled with an analysis of the text I gave does not support the Quaran's claim that Ishmael was the son Abraham attempted to sacrifice and not Isaac as reported in the Book of Genesis.

 

OMNI: Rather, we need to analyse the history, the wordings and the available text to draw the conclusions.

GM: I am satisfied with the analysis of the text given in my previous post . You have put forward nothing to undermine it whereas the points you did put forward to show that the Jews tampered with the text has been shown to be unsound.

 

Kind Regards

 

Reference Material for Oldest Father

Fathers Age = 87.

Source=Illinois Department of Public Health Statistics

Link= http://www.idph.state.il.us/health/trivia/vit02.htm

Year Noted=2001

 

Fathers Age =87

Source=Illinois Department of Public Health Statistics

Link=http://www.idph.state.il.us/health/trivia/vit96.htm

Year Noted=1996

 

Fathers Age=88

Source=Louisiana Office of Public Health

Link=http://www.dhh.louisiana.gov/offices/miscdocs/docs-275/recordsstatistics/statistics/docs/reportcards/1999/02.Summary99_p1_6.pdf#search=%22LOUISIANA%201996%20oldest%20father%22

Year Noted=1999

 

Fathers Age=96

Source= Louisiana Office of Public Health

Link=http://www.dhh.louisiana.gov/offices/miscd...mary97_p1-6.doc

Year Noted=1997

 

Fathers Age=93

Source=Wikepaedia

Link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton%2C_Iowa

Year Noted= 1953

 

Reference Material For Oldest Mother

Mothers Age=66

Source=BBC

Link=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4199839.stm

Year Noted=2005

[The_Omniscient]

Dear Golden Meadows;

 

Trust you are all well. Should we restart or debate? I would like to continue after such a long pause as i was out of country and now would like to resume from where i left once. Meanwhile, other members are also welcomed to ask any questions regarding Islam or Quran.

 

Thanks & regards

A well wisher