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OnceConvinced

Once Convinced

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Hi. I see that there are other people like myself who have posted in this forum, so I thought I would to the same. I guess you could say I am still a Christian, but at the point, where I am seeing some major flaws and starting to seriously doubt whether Christianity is all it is cracked up to be. Hope this isn’t too long.

 

My story:

 

I’m a third generation Christian, brought up in a Christian home. I guess you could say well and truly indoctrinated from an early age. I grew up accepting without a doubt what was taught to me by my parents and at Sunday school. I took everything at face value and didn’t question. All though there was very little to question as you are only given the positive picture. My parents were pretty good parents as far as parents go. Sure they had their flaws, but were always genuine. And I guess the one thing that really encouraged me to continue my walk as a Christian was the fact that with them, what you saw was what you got. They acted no differently at church than they did at home. They were genuine people. There was not putting on a “church face” when you went to church, they were just who they were. In some ways I’m glad I was brought up in Christian culture. My fondest childhood memories involved church camps and activities, going to youth group. I had some great experiences. I wouldn’t give up those memories for anything.

 

As I grew up I believed I experienced touches from God and all that jazz. I thought there were times when he was speaking to me and guiding me. As an adult I was very open about being a Christian all though never really got into too much debate with people. People seemed to accept me and respected my beliefs. When I got into kids ministries (from the early age of 16) I truly believed it was where God was leading me at that point. You know, he opens doors, closes others. I met the woman of my prayers when I was 22. She fitted perfectly – too perfectly, and at the time with how we met and got together and all that, I truly believed God had put us together. There was no doubt in my mind. We both worked in childrens ministries and then went on to running our own cell group. We had two fantastic kids.

 

Somewhere along the line as I was maturing I started to learn to think for myself. When I was younger if ever a preacher said something, I’d believe it. But then I started to allow myself to challenge those words in my mind. Did those words really line up with scripture? Did I really go along with what the preacher was saying. I started to realise that it was ok to disagree with what I was hearing and to have my own opinions.

 

In my early 30s, I started to become very cynical. For a while (in my 20s) I was into all the end times Eschatology crap. I soon learnt what bull that was because none of the things guys like Hal Lindsey were saying ever eventuated. I was also hearing prophesies from pastors of churches and other evangelists how the world was on the verge of a great revival. All the time I was hearing about how God was about to do a great work in the church I was in, or the city I was in. But he did jack shit. So now I hear those sort of things being said and I think, yeah yeah, I’ve heard it all before. You hear all these stories about demons being cast out of people (particularly in the 80s). Miraculous healings taking place at meetings (particularly over seas), resurrections, crippled peoples legs growing to the right size, yada yada yada. BUT NONE OF THAT STUFF WAS HAPPENING IN MY CHURCH!! In fact I’d never met anyone who had been miraculously healed or set free. It’s supposed to happen isn’t it? The bible says it should. But it wasn’t. There was one woman at one church I was at who was supposedly possessed and every week they were trying to cast the demon out of her. Once the church leadership even declared she had been set free. But then a few weeks later the damn demon was back! HELLO???

 

Anyway, approaching the late 1990s, I was getting a little down about things. I didn’t like being cynical, but I couldn’t help it. There were questions running through my mind, like: Why, when a speaker is giving an alter call at the end of his sermon - does the Holy Spirit need soothing music in the back ground to touch people’s hearts? When does God’s uplifting voice inside your head simply become positive thinking? When does devil talk become negative self talk? Why is it sometimes God blesses me when I don’t deserve it and when I do everything right, shit happens? How can it be that every baby in a mothers womb was ordained (knitted together – whatever) by God but yet people can still use fertility drugs to have quadruplets? How can a merciful god condemn so many good people to hell? Etc etc etc.

 

With my marriage, I always thought that us both being Christians, God would keep us together for life, but it didn’t work out that way. I can’t really blame God for us splitting up, after all it’s not God’s job to work on our marriage, it’s ours, but I guess after that, my faith took a major blow. A couple of years later I came across a woman who was my new “perfect woman” Once again I really felt she was the one God wanted for me. It was exactly the same as with my ex-wife. All the signs were there. But then that relationship fell apart pretty damn quickly and I realised at that point, God had never been telling me anything in the first place. I WAS WRONG. I was wrong about my ex too! I came to the conclusion that God created the world, set systems in place and pretty much sits back and lets things run their course. I still believe that. There is no divine intervention, there is no guidance, opening and closing of doors. If you win the lottery it’s luck, not because God decided to bless you financially (otherwise only Christians would win lotteries). If you are an innocent victim in a car crash and end up in a wheel chair for the rest of your life, you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, not because God had some higher purpose and needed you to be a paraplegic. If you get caught in an earthquake, it’s not because God decided to punish the citizens of a city, it’s because that’s the way the earth is, plates shift sometimes and earthquakes happen. It’s the way the planet was set up. (or for you atheists – the way it evolved—if that is the right word). In short, GOD LEAVES US TO OUR OWN DEVICES!

 

Before my marriage fell apart I got the Internet for the first time. I was looking into the Preterist view of scripture. The belief that all biblical prophecy had been fulfilled in the first century. It really started to make me question how the bible is interpreted. It really started to make me evaluate my beliefs. I think that’s where my faith really started to crumble.

 

After my marriage broke down, I joined a non-Christian message board where for the first time in my life my beliefs were challenged quite aggressively. I’d never had that before. All my life I had lived in this protective bubble. Most of my friends were Christians. I tended to gravitate towards Christians at work. Nobody challenged my beliefs. Now they were being challenged! And it got to the point where I stopped visiting the site for well over a year, because it had shaken my faith so much. I decided I wanted to stay in my bubble, because breaking out of it had too many major ramifications when it came to my beliefs. But the things kept bothering me. All those things I never knew before, things that were never pointed out to me before, things that I never really looked at, were nagging at me.

 

A few years ago I stopped telling people I was a Christian and two years ago stopped going to church. Mainly because I was so fed up with all the BS. All the people pretending to be pious. And I also realised I couldn’t really be myself in church, because I always felt I had to be this super spiritual guy because I had been a Christian for more than 30 years and people expected it. At least I thought people expected it. I moved in with a non-christian woman. In fact I actively sought out a non-christian partner, because I was sick of being Mr Super Christian. (Not that I ever was really). Ironically she had better morals than my ex-wife.

 

Now I’m 38 years old. I keep telling myself and I know other Christians would tell me that I need to get back into the word of God and study it. That’s what helps keep your faith strong. But I can no longer trust the bible because I have come to the conclusion that it is not translated from the Hebrew language properly and there are a lot of flaws in it. Myself and other Christians would tell me that I should be seeking God in earnest prayer, but as I found out the hard way, I have no clue what is the voice of God is, or whether he has even spoken to me at all in the past. So that won’t work.

 

Like others here, I prayed for God to reveal himself to me in a fresh way. I guess now, I am at a crossroads. But the direction away from Christianity is a little too scary. No heaven? What’s there to look forward to? If God is not here, then we are truly alone in the universe with no hope and no purpose. And on top of that, my 10 year old son is such a lovely little Christian kid with a strong faith, I’d hate to crush that by giving up the faith myself. On top of that my elderly parents would be heartbroken and I don’t want to do that to them. I don’t want them to think they failed as Christian parents. And what if I am wrong and Christ really is the son of God? Then I’m in deep shit.

 

I have started going to church again once every couple of weeks. Ironically it is my non-Christian partner who has encouraged me to go and she comes too. But my heart isn’t in it any more. It’s hard to know where to go from here.

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Guest Doubting Thomas

I am also ex christian here, I hope you see sense and leave christianity,

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Welcome OnceConvinced.

 

(This section is really for ex-christians, and not so much for the ones in the process, but I think it's okay anyway. :) )

 

I can relate to a lot of what you say there. And I hope you'll find the answers. At least you're here, right? That's a good step in the right direction! :HaHa:

 

What's important is that it really doesn't matter if one keeps some kind of faith, but I think it is important to understand that no one else can tell you what to believe. The basic flaw in religion in general is that it creates a system of tenets that you have to believe. And it is all based on assumptions. Why should one have to be restricted to what someone else said one time? He could be wrong, and I could be right! So why should I have to change my opinion because St Bob said so? It's better to establish your own belief, and you'll become a much better person, and actually... more "christ" like.

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Yeah, I was concerned about whether this was the right place to post this.

 

I can't believe how easily led I was even as a young adult. I'd pretty much go along with what ever the latest teaching was. I can remember when I was a teenager the pastor there commenting on Massage, saying how it probably wasn't something Christians should get involved with. He put it up there alongside Acupuncture. For years whenever I had a massage I would think ..oh oh, I hope I'm not going to come under some kind of bondage or something like that. But then once I started to learn to think for myself I thought what crap. Massage is a pretty normal sort of a thing when you think about it, so what's so what's wrong with it?

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I've gotta wonder... Why is the Christian God so small...or petty?

If you don't call Him by the right name...and invoke the right spell (password)...you go to Hell.

Is it any wonder that Lucifer easily persuaded 1/3 of Heaven's angels to side with him? (if there were any merit to that story)

I remember going to one church...whose pastor I adored, and thought was the greatest man I was ever close enough to touch. He said, preached and convinced me that the only music that pleased God was the music we did in his church (not very pleasant music to a musician). But, every other church I attended, had the kind of music he had said was unholy/unbiblical...yet...they were all getting blessed just like those in his church.

Go to another church...pick up a new rule book...even though they're the same brand.

I remember hearing two renowned ministers preach sermons on the same verses of scripture (and same story)...both saying God gave them the message...with each message receiving the same goose-pimple response as the other...just as many blessed...BUT...their messages were in diametric opposition to each other. And the differences could not be explained with "different perspective from another side of the mountain".

I know what you mean about your child. Good luck... Thanks for the post.

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And what if I am wrong and Christ really is the son of God? Then I’m in deep shit.

 

 

Hey, OnceConvinced, thank you for sharing your progression as it's gone so far. The snippet I pulled out of it above struck me because, like the rest of us, you've been infected with the extremely strong dose of fear that Christianity instills. It is a religion of fear, however much love gets talked about. I thought the same when you later commented that your pastor made you feel that massage was bad and you feared you might get into some kind of "bondage." That's the way they talk about normal stuff in life, let alone things that are actually harmful.

 

I'm glad you've found a good partner to be with. I'm also glad you've been challenged. Like you I often would rather not be challenged and just let everything stay the same, but it's good to be pushed to grow, isn't it?

 

Welcome to this site. I've learned a lot about life and human nature on here.

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Yeah, I was concerned about whether this was the right place to post this.

It's okay, you seem to be a decent semi/pseudo-christian as of now. :)

 

Haha, massage. I never heard that one. Acupuncture, yeah, that I heard, and all holistic treatments of any kind.

 

One thing that really set me off, was when the visiting preacher said that Classical Music was from the Devil! And at the same time we had worship songs that had melodies stolen from classical pieces, and not any classical ones, but one was from Finlandia by Sibelius, and that piece (if anyone knows the history), is a musical production based on the mythological and pagan story Kalevala, how Finland came to be though mystical powers and gods of different kinds. So we sing "praise God" in the tune of pagan inspired music, and then we condemn it as satanic!?!

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Minstrel, I know what you mean. One of the biggest problems I have with the bible is how things can be taken so many different ways. It seems you can pretty much back up any argument you like using scripture.

 

Ficino, one of the reasons I signed up here was to be challenged. Too often all I get is the Christian side of things. And then on other sites most of the athiests and anti-christian people have no understanding of the bible or even read the thing and speak from ignorance most of the time. At least here it is full of people who have "been there, done that" and know what they're talking about.

 

Han, I had a real struggle with what music was right and what was wrong in my late teens. I even threw away my entire cassette collection because I thought it was bad. A few months later I totally regretted it. I'm happy to say I have a huge CD collection now and not one of them is a Christian artist.

 

The use of music in church is one thing that has bothered me a lot over the years. Why do we need music to help the Holy Spirit move when the Holy Spirit should be able to move without it. I think when someone like a pastor is up there summing up his message and asking people to come forward, he could have "Stairway to Heaven" playing in the back ground and it would stir people's hearts just as much. lol.

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The use of music in church is one thing that has bothered me a lot over the years. Why do we need music to help the Holy Spirit move when the Holy Spirit should be able to move without it. I think when someone like a pastor is up there summing up his message and asking people to come forward, he could have "Stairway to Heaven" playing in the back ground and it would stir people's hearts just as much. lol.

One time (many many moons past), I played a tune on the keyboard for a Wednesday evening service (about 1200 in attendance)...and had another guy reading some Bible verses to the backdrop of Funeral For A Friend.

Same response as usual...except a couple of Sundays later, one of my cronies (not a close friend, but a friend) reprimanded me for the sacrilege.

I remember Larry Norman's rebuttal to "worldly music in the church", when he identified the origins of a number of Hymns that remain mainstays...but started as pub songs.

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Han, I had a real struggle with what music was right and what was wrong in my late teens. I even threw away my entire cassette collection because I thought it was bad. A few months later I totally regretted it. I'm happy to say I have a huge CD collection now and not one of them is a Christian artist.

Oh, I threw away music and books that I still regret. At the time I didn't, but now... damn...

 

The use of music in church is one thing that has bothered me a lot over the years. Why do we need music to help the Holy Spirit move when the Holy Spirit should be able to move without it. I think when someone like a pastor is up there summing up his message and asking people to come forward, he could have "Stairway to Heaven" playing in the back ground and it would stir people's hearts just as much. lol.

Most definitely. There are techno and even heavy metal music that makes my spine go all curly too. :) So bring on Paul Oakenfold or Opeth... :HaHa:

 

The whole music thing really makes you wonder. I really didn't think too much the way you going there. But you're right. Music is very emotional. And it does put people into a certain mood. Just look at old tribes dancing around the fire in ecstasy, or elevator music to calm you down. The same thing with this music is to put you into the cuddly-feeling of "Gaaawd is HERE!" In a sense it's hypnosis.

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There was one church I was going to in the early 90s, which I guess you could say was a modern, really exciting church and it was actually fun to go to. It was growing like wildfire and is now one of the most popular churches in Auckland New Zealand. I remember (in it's days where it wasn't too large) walking into church about 15 minutes late and the praise and worship was going. At the time I really felt something hit me. I put it down to the Holy Spirit being there in force at the time and I guess it really made me believe the Holy Spirit did move. But now when I think about it, I wonder if it was just the music and the atmosphere created by so many people excited and singing praises. I wonder if I would have felt the same way if perhaps I had arrived late to a pop concert and the crowds were dancing and singing along with the group.

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Why, when a speaker is giving an alter call at the end of his sermon - does the Holy Spirit need soothing music in the back ground to touch people’s hearts? When does God’s uplifting voice inside your head simply become positive thinking? When does devil talk become negative self talk? Why is it sometimes God blesses me when I don’t deserve it and when I do everything right, shit happens? How can it be that every baby in a mothers womb was ordained (knitted together – whatever) by God but yet people can still use fertility drugs to have quadruplets? How can a merciful god condemn so many good people to hell? Etc etc etc.

I like the questions. The two that had the most impact on me were "When does devil talk become negative self talk?" and it's inverse, "When does God’s uplifting voice inside your head simply become positive thinking?" The thing is, God isn't required to explain the world around us. When it comes to events and happenings in our lives, they can easily be explained without God using natural means.

 

Granted, some things are debatable and questionable - like our origins. I personally claim ignorance in that area, it is a complex matter that will be solved in time by science. I do not accept religion's explanation of our origins because 1) I don't accept any other of religion's explanations and 2) Creationism goes against science anyway.

 

But I'm getting off track...

 

Like others here, I prayed for God to reveal himself to me in a fresh way. I guess now, I am at a crossroads. But the direction away from Christianity is a little too scary. No heaven? What’s there to look forward to? If God is not here, then we are truly alone in the universe with no hope and no purpose. And on top of that, my 10 year old son is such a lovely little Christian kid with a strong faith, I’d hate to crush that by giving up the faith myself. On top of that my elderly parents would be heartbroken and I don’t want to do that to them. I don’t want them to think they failed as Christian parents. And what if I am wrong and Christ really is the son of God? Then I’m in deep shit.

If you think about it you'll be taking that chance as a Christian too. What if Islam is true? What if Mormonism is true? Hinudism? Lol, Scientology? Either way, you're taking a chance of being in deep shit.

 

Regarding your family, this is a really hard situation. Christianity has taught them to avoid people like us. Not only that, but this is your family, it will have an even greater effect on them. Of course, I'm sure you've thought about it and already acknowledge all of this. What can you do? I think this is one of those situational problems, where you should find an answer that fits your specific situation. Unfortunately there isn't a universal answer to these kinds of problems. But there is an answer nonetheless. Maybe some of our more experienced members can help you here? At 16, I do not see myself qualified. I do hope everything goes well for you.

 

It’s hard to know where to go from here.

The search for truth is definitely not an easy path, don't let anyone lie to you. You may (and probably will, if you haven't already) come across alot of things you don't like. It's important, when searching for truth, to remain skeptical and keep intellectual honesty. Do that, and you will find your path in time.

 

Welcome to the boards, OnceConvinced. :)

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Thanks for your comments DMU. I used to dismiss the concepts of mind over matter when I was younger, but after reading a lot of books on the power of positive thinking and how negative thinking can cause failure, I really had to look at my beliefs. There is no doubt that positive and negative thinking can effect our success in life in just about every area. I guess I came to the conclusion that God speak and Positive thinking were exactly the same thing, and Devil speak and Negative thinking were exactly the same thing. Preachers talk of God and Devil speak, guys, motivational speakers talk about Positive and negative thinking. I definitely can't see any line between them.

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Guest Kit

I think one of my biggest issues, was I couldn't understand how one pastor could interpret scripture one way, claiming the holy spirit revealed it to him, and another pastor would interpret the same scripture and say that it was revealed to him by the holy spirit. That just didn't make sense to me, if the holy spirit was all that why was he telling them different things. And the whole thing you hear from christians about, well you just need to stay in gods word otherwise the devil will tempt you. Again, if the holy spirit is so powerful why cant he do it without me reading my bible everyday. I had huge issues with that.

 

You said "No heaven? What’s there to look forward to? If God is not here, then we are truly alone in the universe with no hope and no purpose." When I brought up doubts in the past, before I totally was set free from christianity, that was what the christians around me would say. I think the reason for that is because as a christian your whole existence is based on when you die, how you're suppose to be living for the future (for one thing how the heck do you do that anyway, the only time you're living is in this exact moment) and not for the now. I think its a brainwashed thinking, that if we can't live on after death, what reason do we have for existence, TO LIVE!!! I admit, it was a bit scarey for me when I first started doubting, it was like someone was suffocating me, to think that there would be nothing after life. But just because one doesnt believe in christianity, doesnt mean they dont believe in the after life. I've come to the point that it really doesn't matter, because the more I think about that, the less I'm living in the now.

 

I wish you all the best, and it's normal too feel strange, or even a bit scared really, when christianity has been a part of your life for so long, it's like what has defined you. I lost myself so much when I was a christian. I am soooo excited to be finally living, learning new things and just appreciating me, for me. Lots of Luck to you!

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Positive thinking can be explained with naturalism and doesn't require supernatural influence. Mind over matter is true, but mind is part of matter, that's why. It's not metaphysical, but effects of physical.

 

Your brain controls the heart rythm, and there are other things controlled in your body by your brain. Bloodflow, and enzyme productions and what-nots. So the brain is the CPU/ALU/MMU etc for the I/O components in the computer called a human body and mind. So the mechanical, naturalistic mind, does have control (to some extent) over its body (matter). But no spirits or ghosts or souls partake in the feast.

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Well, Once Convinced, I welcome you here. Perhaps you'll find some guidance in these forums.

 

I became a christian at age 10, but was already asking questions by age 12. The more you ask, the less you find answers in the bible, but the more revelations you find in history and reason.

 

From your OP it sounds like you're starting to lean toward a more deist or pantheistic approach. Congratulations. That line of reasoning makes more sense than dogmatic xianity, which makes no sense at all. Explore that. Read "The Age of REason" by Tom Paine, that's a classic. Explore agnostic writings, like Robert Green Ingersoll. Google them, they're out there. Look up the quotes from outright atheists like Emma Goldman. Read all that you can get your hands on. Read more contemporary writers like Farrell Till and Dan Barker. Heck, there are a load of links in the archives right here at ex-christian.net.

 

Read your bible from a critical perspective. Is god really the same throughout the bible? You'll soon see he is not. Is there any credible historical evidence that jesus really lived? No, there is not. Follow the historical development of christianity from its emergence as a political power in the late Roman empire, at the time of Constantine. Try a site like www.askwhy.co.uk. A massive resource, well worth reading.

 

See what you come up with.

 

And you say, what if there is no heaven? What ever gave you the idea that there has to be? Is mortality so repugnant? We are born, we live, and it ends...that is true of all living things. There is not one shred of evidence that there is any life after death of any kind.

 

It's a process. Enjoy the ride, and best wishes.

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Greetings OnceConvinced. As you have noticed "you are NOT alone!" Much of your lament and travails are ours as well. The questions, doubts, probing and the coming of awareness that you've been manipulated, whether overtly/covertly, deliberately or unintentionally are things most of us have experienced. I hope that you continue to persevere on the Road to Recovery.

 

I offer you this link to my blog on this forum ==> Mr. Grinch's Blog. On it I have listed several links to web articles and on-line books that should prove enlightening for you. There is much concerning how churches manipulate the masses and individual. Pretty powerful and frightening "revelations".

 

Good luck in your endeavors.

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Like others here, I prayed for God to reveal himself to me in a fresh way. I guess now, I am at a crossroads. But the direction away from Christianity is a little too scary. No heaven? What’s there to look forward to? If God is not here, then we are truly alone in the universe with no hope and no purpose. And on top of that, my 10 year old son is such a lovely little Christian kid with a strong faith, I’d hate to crush that by giving up the faith myself. On top of that my elderly parents would be heartbroken and I don’t want to do that to them. I don’t want them to think they failed as Christian parents. And what if I am wrong and Christ really is the son of God? Then I’m in deep shit.

 

Welcome to the city of Nihilism.

Population: who cares?

Exports and imports: What does it matter?

Mayor: none, there are no laws to enforce or policies to keep.

 

Enjoy your stay, I personally love it here. This is freedom.

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Hi welcome to exc! Its good to have you here, you seem like a very sincere person, I hope that you do stay. Its not easy deconverting from xianity, especially when its been such a big part of your life. I went through what you did, and up until a couple of months ago I was a theist/agnostic, until I realized that I didn't believe in god and if god was real then he did us no good, and ended up an atheist.

 

A lot of xians put off living into thinking its the next life that matters the most and that they'll "live" in heaven and enjoy themselves there. But this life is it baby, this is it! You have to enjoy the now and live in the present, and time goes by so fast. It really does. When you wake up there's the day to look forward to, and then there's tomorrow to look forward to. Being atheist, it has made me appreciate my life so much more, I don't want to put off things anymore. I want to enjoy and do all sorts of things. So when I'm old I can look back and know that I didn't waste it.

 

I don't look at it as a bad thing of being alone in the universe, I thought that as a xian it was god carrying me through things and helping me, but now I realize, hey I went through all sorts of shit alone. It was me who did it, not god, and I've lived through all sorts of shit, so I know that I can make it through anything. You can too. You know you exist, you can have faith in yourself, you seem like a pretty strong person to me and you have found yourself a great partner, you have things going for you. Just think to yourself, "hey I'm a total badass, look at everything I've been through, I can make it through anything."

 

You don't have to tell your parents you're no longer a xian, in fact I'd spare them that, its hard especially for parents who have lived their entire lives to come to grips with such a reality. They would worry for you as any parents would. You don't have to tell your son anything, at least not yet, if and when I have kids in the future, I won't take them to church. I'll let them make up their minds about god and stuff.

 

I don't think you have anything to worry about because, how can any god realistically expect you to pick one right religion out of many religions in the world? Then send us to hell for picking the wrong one? That is not an all powerful and all merciful god, that is a jackass kind of god. Even if bible god and jesus existed and it was a known fact, and if there was evidence then I still wouldn't worship god because what's the point? I can't worship and believe in a god who blackmails human beings for being human, for questioning, and who threatens his creations.

 

Just take your time with leaving xianity, and with dealing with all your questions. Take your time, we are here if you need help or if you just want to vent. But don't drive yourself crazy, I drove myself crazy asking all sorts of questions, and they never came, and I desperately tried to hold onto my faith, I really did, but I just had to experience the disappointment and sadness of leaving xianity, and now life is better than ever. You can actually live a happy and productive life as a non-xian. Hang in there, you'll make it.

 

Like others here, I prayed for God to reveal himself to me in a fresh way. I guess now, I am at a crossroads. But the direction away from Christianity is a little too scary. No heaven? What's there to look forward to? If God is not here, then we are truly alone in the universe with no hope and no purpose. And on top of that, my 10 year old son is such a lovely little Christian kid with a strong faith, I'd hate to crush that by giving up the faith myself. On top of that my elderly parents would be heartbroken and I don't want to do that to them. I don't want them to think they failed as Christian parents. And what if I am wrong and Christ really is the son of God? Then I'm in deep shit.

 

I have started going to church again once every couple of weeks. Ironically it is my non-Christian partner who has encouraged me to go and she comes too. But my heart isn't in it any more. It's hard to know where to go from here.

 

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When does God’s uplifting voice inside your head simply become positive thinking? When does devil talk become negative self talk?

 

Hey OnceConvinced,

 

I decided to drop all the christian B.S. and to stick with the positive thinking. I really like it.

Ever heard of Bishop Spong? The idea that God is the ground of our being, or the intelligence behind everything is promoted by New Thought gurus, by Bishop Spong, and the Dalai Lama. This is something you may be interested in. Check it out!

 

I like your screen name by the way.

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Thanks Knightly. An encouraging message there.

 

Thanks to everyone who's replied. I can see that the conclusions I am coming to are valid and a lot of what you are saying, I can definitely go along with. I think I've come to the right place

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Welcome from a fellow Kiwi!

I'm the original New Zealander here.

At last, a boom of NZers like me!

 

Good to see you escaped your cult!

:D

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All the time I was hearing about how God was about to do a great work in the church I was in, or the city I was in. But he did jack shit.

I just snorted out my mouthful of water that was so funny. No messing, no nonsense: God did jack shit. Love it.

 

I too, about a decade ago now I guess, was hearing all this rubbish about God sweeping in revival through the UK, through the world, possible end-time revivial on the way. Total bollocks of course. The Toronto Blessing, that was it! That was it, just remembered it. What a load of rubbish.

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Thanks for the welcome Onyx. Good to see there are other Kiwis around here. Most sites I end up being a member of, I'm usually the only one.

 

Dirac, it's amazing what people can believe when they really want to believe it huh?

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I soon learnt what bull that was because none of the things guys like Hal Lindsey were saying ever eventuated. I was also hearing prophesies from pastors of churches and other evangelists how the world was on the verge of a great revival.

Eventuated! Good word, that made me chuckle xD

 

Oh yes, the good old End Times revival shit. Sheer nonsense I agree. Join with us in our unholy communion as we break not bread but the yolk of fundieism, and drink not wine but... well we still drink wine xD

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