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Goodbye Jesus

Topic Of Salvation - A Challenge


Madie

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Hey Madie:

 

Firstly, I'm sorry about your grandma and that she didn't come to faith in Christ, I can't imagine how much that must hurt you.

 

In the beginning God created human beings with something called "free will." This meant that we can choose whether or not to love God in return and be involved in a perfect living relationship with Him.

 

--- cut for brevity ---

 

I am praying for you; have a good day, friend.

 

~ From The Inside Out.

Sorry, we have heard this before. We don't believe it one bit. It doesn't convince us of anything.

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Perhaps something was going on behind the scenes between this world and the next. Maybe right before her soul slipped away Jesus appeared to her soul and gave her yet another chance. I honestly believe Christ is very mercifully and gives a person a million and one chances to choose the beauty and peace of heaven.

 

God gives us a million & one chances. SO FUCKING WHAT. Sorry to be blunt, but really.

If I'm a perfectly happy, benevolent, good person who doesn't hurt anyone doesn't cause any harm it shouldn't matter. If the union offered you a million & one chances to join because of the benefits, but you just weren't interested, shouldn't you just be allowed to go your own way. Not in God's world. Nope you can be the best person humanity has ever known, but if you don't acknowledge his ego, then you're doomed to hell.

 

Tell me how that's nothing more than an ego based, selfish desire that neglects the true things that a higher entity should be paying attention. A deity that requires acknowledgement is doing nothing more than catering to it's own ego; an action that for one, shouldn't be required by a higher order being that is acting benevolently as you claim. Two, if a being requires acknowledgement for people to be saved, then it's a conditional requirement like any exclusive club. No love involved, you just have to pay the fee to get in. You can call it love, but true love shouldn't be, and doesn't have that the limitations, fees, requirements, that God puts on his love.

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i feel that all prayers are heard by God, and that all prayers are answered in a way that is in concurence with his will.

 

This can easily become an excuse as to why God never does anything. We can always blame it on God's will. Is it God's will that he never acts? :)

 

 

 

As I said before, God doesn't force Himself upon anyone.

 

Which is probably why so many people don't believe and why there are many ex-christians and athiests here on this site. Maybe if he did force himself on people, people would at least believe he was there. How many Christians have prayed for God to reveal himself, but he doesn't? Seems to me that when Jesus knocks on the door we're yelling at him to come in, but he prefers to remain outside.

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You can call it love, but true love shouldn't be, and doesn't have that the limitations, fees, requirements, that God puts on his love.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Well put Eponymic. Christians often compare the love of God to the love a parent. However, it is my understanding that all loving parents don't show their love by punishing thier children for an eternity if they lied or cheated or had a bad thought. It's just completely and mind-boggling irrational and illogical.

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You can call it love, but true love shouldn't be, and doesn't have that the limitations, fees, requirements, that God puts on his love.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Well put Eponymic. Christians often compare the love of God to the love a parent. However, it is my understanding that all loving parents don't show their love by punishing thier children for an eternity if they lied or cheated or had a bad thought. It's just completely and mind-boggling irrational and illogical.

 

 

if a child loves his father then there will never be eternal punishment. his lying, cheating or bad thoughts will be forgoten.

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These words of Jesus come to my mind: "He who is fogiven much loves much. He who is forgiven loves little."

 

And this answers my post.....how?

 

Glib quotes are hardly worthy as an answer.

 

Either admit you're running away with your tail between your legs, or answer my statements forthright.

 

if a child loves his father then there will never be eternal punishment. his lying, cheating or bad thoughts will be forgoten.

 

Indeed, if anyone loves anyone truly they won't subject them to eternal punishment.

 

So are you saying freeday that you don't believe in hell? or that you don't believe God loves everyone?

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if a child loves his father then there will never be eternal punishment. his lying, cheating or bad thoughts will be forgoten.

When any of my kids do anything bad, and they ask for forgiveness, I forgive them. I don't demand that they have to believe that I killed on of the other kids as payment for their trespassing. I show more mercy, kindness, love and morality than the mythical Bible-God.

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if a child loves his father then there will never be eternal punishment. his lying, cheating or bad thoughts will be forgoten.

 

Also, it is just ethically unresaonable that the punishement for small sin would equal an enternity in hell. Take this example:

 

A 14 year old child who has a complete understanding between right and wrong has made mistakes in his life--he lied and disobeyed his parents, however, he has never committed anything more serious than that. Overall, he is a pretty caring child and loves his family and people. The child passes away of a terminal illness never having an opportunity of hearing the gospel because no one ever shared it with him. Now, it just bewilders me to think that this loving little boy has been condemned to hell. UNREASONABLE.

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if a child loves his father then there will never be eternal punishment. his lying, cheating or bad thoughts will be forgoten.

 

Also, it is just ethically unresaonable that the punishement for small sin would equal an enternity in hell. Take this example:

 

A 14 year old child who has a complete understanding between right and wrong has made mistakes in his life--he lied and disobeyed his parents, however, he has never committed anything more serious than that. Overall, he is a pretty caring child and loves his family and people. The child passes away of a terminal illness never having an opportunity of hearing the gospel because no one ever shared it with him. Now, it just bewilders me to think that this loving little boy has been condemned to hell. UNREASONABLE.

 

madie, this is where i deveate a little from being a literalist, i think that each will be judged according to thier life, the people who have never heard the gospel before, i think will be judged differently, but fairly.

 

i think the reason it is not stressed, is because you do not want to belittle the purpose for spreading the gospel. but i have read verses that indicates it.

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Dear Christian,

Can you please tell me why my grandma didn't get saved? She never accepted Christ as her savior. She was hostile towards Christianity. Now, I've prayed for her for years. The church prayed for her. I was good Christian--went to church everytime the doors were opened, had my devotions, and served in Sunday School. I prayed hard to the point of tears pleading for her salvation. I even fasted. Now how come God didn't asnwer?

 

If you come up with an answer that makes sense to me, I will reconvert.

 

Do you really think you're going to find an answer that makes any sense whatsoever? I think you know as well as I do that prayer fails everytime because they don't go any further than the brain and there was never a God anywhere in the first place to answer any of your prayers.

 

So cheer up partner. Welcome to the real world of reality.

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Dear Christian,

Can you please tell me why my grandma didn't get saved? She never accepted Christ as her savior. She was hostile towards Christianity. Now, I've prayed for her for years. The church prayed for her. I was good Christian--went to church everytime the doors were opened, had my devotions, and served in Sunday School. I prayed hard to the point of tears pleading for her salvation. I even fasted. Now how come God didn't asnwer?

 

If you come up with an answer that makes sense to me, I will reconvert.

 

Do you really think you're going to find an answer that makes any sense whatsoever? I think you know as well as I do that prayer fails everytime because they don't go any further than the brain and there was never a God anywhere in the first place to answer any of your prayers.

 

So cheer up partner. Welcome to the real world of reality.

 

 

EdwardAbbey, you are sooo right. what in the name of fudgecicles was i thinking? we're just going in circles. THANKS to all who replyed to this. i'm just going to drive myself crazy trying to wrap my mind around the idea of having to take the bible literally and at the same time stretch it so far as to make it make sense to me. Bottom line is-- if god created us with the purpose of us to be in heaven with him, he would not have made everything so ridicuously confusing.

 

:Doh:

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madie, this is where i deveate a little from being a literalist, i think that each will be judged according to thier life, the people who have never heard the gospel before, i think will be judged differently, but fairly.

 

i think the reason it is not stressed, is because you do not want to belittle the purpose for spreading the gospel. but i have read verses that indicates it.

 

So do you believe in the Bible or not?

 

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned" Mark 16:16

 

What's it gonna be?

 

Oh, and "the purpose for spreading the gospel"? Here's a line that should not be crossed. What makes you think that you have the right or the reason to spread your beliefs to others? Non-Christians are perfectly fine the way they are, and they don't need your delusional dogma. At all. Period. Do not be so myopic and ignorant as to think that shoving some illogical book and mindset down people's throats is in any way remotely justified or right or not insane. It is undeniably criminal and wrong to attack another person's beliefs, another people's culture, another person's soul. Keep it to yourself and quit raping the world with your delusion.

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if a child loves his father then there will never be eternal punishment. his lying, cheating or bad thoughts will be forgoten.

You know, I wouldn't care if my child loved me or not. My love is not conditional on her loving me...I love her anyway.

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  • 1 month later...
Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

I don't see any "if it's my will" clause in that verse. So either THA BIBLE lies, or any christian who doesn't have all his/her/its prayers answered must not be a TRUE CHRISTIAN.

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