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Hitler Was Not A Christian!


Warrior_of_god
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Hitler, despite what he said, was NOT a christian, never. He was different and freethinking from the time he was little. Did he believe in a higher being? This is hard to say, it would seem so. However this does not mean he was religious, he liked the order of religion so he used it as a model to organize the Nazi party. He merly USED christianity like a glue to bring the ideas the NDASP party represented (his ideas) and the state, consisting of German people, religious CHRISTIAN German people together. He used Christianity to HELP him. To help him come to power and stay in power AND in justification for killing all undesirables in Europe. Sure he wanted the fabled Spear of Destiny but only beacuse he wanted to control the fate of all mankind.

 

Evidence he was not a Christian?

 

He killed himself, this is an unforgiveable sin.

 

He was not married by a clergyman, but rather by a secular official. [Last Days of Hitler, p. 234].

 

Before he died he did not talk to any clergy men. [Last Days of Hitler, Ch. 6-7].

 

His own statements are somehwat contradictory. His speeches were used tell and order rather than to inform the people. However his private talk was much more anti-Christian.

 

Examples: "However weak the individual may be when compared with the omnipotence and will of Providence, yet at the moment when he acts as Providence would have him act he becomes immeasurably strong. Then there streams down upon him that force which has marked all greatness in the world's history. And when I look back on the five years which lie behind us, then I feel that I am justified in saying: That has not been the work of man alone.'" [bullock, p. 384-5]

 

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. [p. 51]

 

This latter quote is interesting. In Nazi ideology the Aryan Race was the best, strongest, most powerful race ever to exist and it was destined to overtake every other race. In this quote Hitler says that Christianity would lead to humanities failure...humanity includes the Aryans, the White Germans without Jewish blood who were regular party members and farmers and steelmill workers and coal miners and who gave the Reich its bread. However these same people were, in most cases, Christian... Perhaps here we see Hitler and Himmler's plans to creat a new religion, with the SS as its Knights and its HQ at Wewelsburg Castle... Perhaps here we see the apex of what Christianity and religion ment to Hitler and his cronies... And perhaps we find that it ment about as much as a Jewish life did to them...

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Okay, so what religion was he? I'm just very curious, because it seems that with the arguments against him being Christian can be used for any religion he might have been. He can't have been atheist, because he believed in God. Maybe he was a Deist, or Theist?

 

I don't defend the idea that Hitler was Christian, but I can't defend the opposite either. Just because someone doesn't call the clergy or isn't married by clergy, or even killed themselves doesn't mean they were not Christian. We had a member in our Church that killed himself. So I guess all the years that person called himself Christian, before he got so desperate that he killed himself, he was lying to himself and everyone else. :shrug: And I know Christians that have been married by non-Christians, that doesn't mean anything either.

 

I guess, you're saying that Hitler was not a Catholic Christian?

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Just because someone doesn't call the clergy or isn't married by cleargy, or even killed themselves doesn't mean they were not Christian. We had a member in our Church that killed himself. So I guess all the years that person called himself Christian, before he got so desperate that he killed himself, he was lying to himself and everyone else. Wendyshrug.gif And I know Christians that have been married by non-Christians, that doesn't mean anything either.

Yes but we are not talking about an every day person, were talking about Hitler a man of extremes. If he believed in something he would adhere to it even if it ment going through hell. I dont think Hitler was any particular religion. I think that he believed and liked the thought of a supreme being watching over him.

 

who cares if he was, or wasn't, whatever his religion/beliefs were, his actions showed his true self.

This is true but I have heard numerous arguments from both sides of the fence each blame the other for the man as if THEY created him. Truth is no one is to blame for him. However its not like he didnt warn the world he was comming...

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Well, I don't blame religion or Christianity for creating Hitler. I think it was many different reasons and ideas that all coalesced into this evil person. But I just can't excuse a person from a religion only on the basis he was evil.

 

Here's how one can argue:

Stalin was an atheist, but I don't know any atheist that supports genocide or massmurder etc, so Stalin wasn't a True Atheist.

 

That way we can excuse all evil people in the world, and put them into the box of no-faith-land. In effect all evil people have no faith, but still are not atheists. What a conundrum!

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Are you sure you're not Christian, Warrior_of_god? Because you sound an awful lot like a fundy.

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Are you sure you're not Christian, Warrior_of_god? Because you sound an awful lot like a fundy.

No im not, I was but not now, havent been one in years.

 

Well, I don't blame religion or Christianity for creating Hitler. I think it was many different reasons and ideas that all coalesced into this evil person. But I just can't excuse a person from a religion only on the basis he was evil.

 

Here's how one can argue:

Stalin was an atheist, but I don't know any atheist that supports genocide or massmurder etc, so Stalin wasn't a True Atheist.

 

That way we can excuse all evil people in the world, and put them into the box of no-faith-land. In effect all evil people have no faith, but still are not atheists. What a conundrum!

There is no excuse for what Hitler or Stalin or any other genocidic fool did. And evil people most definately can have faith, this one didnt have faith in religion.

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If anyone cares, probably no one, but heck I will make this little argument anyway. Everyone probably want me to stop posting at the moment. :)

 

In the fundamentalist sect I used to belong to, there was an incident. This part of the story is true. One of the members (he was a Christian, Word of Life, extremist like everyone else, said he believed in Jesus etc.) one day he ran naked, streaking, through he streets in the city. :HaHa: Sorry, I'm just think it's very funny. Anyway, he got arrested and later released.

 

The church of course took him in for counseling etc.

 

Lets do a little hypothetical argument here. Lets say the guy did something much worse. Something that the Church definitely didn't approve (well, they didn't approve this either), but anyway, lets say he robbed a bank.

 

And lets say that the Church now refused to recognize him as a Word of Life member.

 

So this guy goes to prison, and he sits in the cell. He will claim that he is Christian and a believer in the message of Word of Life, but the Church won't recognize him as such.

 

What is he?

 

Now lets go back to the real story. The streaker guy was talked to and counseled with, so then he was pardoned by the Church.

 

What was he?

 

Is it the size of the crime against the religion that defines if they are not true to their religion, or is it what church claims, or what the person believes?

 

I just wonder what your thoughts are on this.

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Its all what the person believes and the reasoning behind the crime, obvious bigger crimes are worse than robbing a bank so that must be taken into consideration too. But what a person believes in and what he says he is are two different things.

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So you're saying the belief is the key factor?

 

Do we know for sure what Hitler believed?

 

And if we know for sure what he believed in the last days of his life, but he was born and raised Christian, do we know when he stopped believing? At what point did he become a Non-Christian? Before or after the death camps?

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So you're saying the belief is the key factor?

Yes, absolutely.

 

Do we know for sure what Hitler believed?

We would have to ask him but seeing as thats not going to happen we must see where the evidence leads us.

 

And if we know for sure what he believed in the last days of his life, but he was born and raised Christian, do we know when he stopped believing? At what point did he become a Non-Christian? Before or after the death camps?

 

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

[Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 2)]

 

In Chapter 2, Entitled "Years of study and suffering in Vienna." Hitler was still in Vienna, this was shortly after he failed the enterance exams and after his mother, whom he adored, had died. This was where he also began to read anti-semetic literature and where he found of his great love for his adopted nationL Germany. So your answer would be before the death camps, way before them.

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This is true but I have heard numerous arguments from both sides of the fence each blame the other for the man as if THEY created him. Truth is no one is to blame for him. However its not like he didnt warn the world he was comming...

 

 

 

Apathy is the reason why Hitler succeeded in taking over Europe. It doesn't matter if he was a xian or if he wasn't, many people have used religion as an excuse to do atrocious crimes throughout history. Its sick and demented, nothing new.

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(Quote shortened to save space )

 

Hitler, despite what he said, was NOT a christian, never.

 

:ugh: Despite what he said? You say this because he said he was, and also rallied people behind him Because he was a Christian. That's odd how you state Never as if you know.... He was born, raised and baptized catholic. The Vatican also supported him WW2. To this day he's never been excommunicated from the Catholic Church

 

 

 

 

Evidence he was not a Christian?

 

He killed himself, this is an unforgiveable sin.

So did God but.. I digress...

 

 

 

He was not married by a clergyman, but rather by a secular official. [Last Days of Hitler, p. 234].

 

Are you kidding me? He got married right before he offed himself and he knew the war was over he knew he was going to face certain death. I doubt he was serious about the commitment part of it. I wouldn't constitute this as a 'real' wedding or marriage in any regard, they were in a bunker with his close associates, no friends, family or loved ones were there either. He never ever once recanted his faith, god or belief.

 

 

Before he died he did not talk to any clergy men. [Last Days of Hitler, Ch. 6-7].

 

No shit he was holed up in a bunker when he got married and shortly there after killed himself.

 

His own statements are somehwat contradictory. His speeches were used tell and order rather than to inform the people. However his private talk was much more anti-Christian.

 

 

 

 

:ugh: You do realize that the Catholics and the protestants do not agree and each group thinks the other as failure to god. You have shown no evidence of your claim. Read Mein Kampf for starters to see how much he thought god should be the center of government.

 

you can read this outstanding site on No beliefs.com.. Hitler's Christianity

 

I'd also like ask WTF the big deal is in any regard, why do you care what he believed? I'd also like to point out that every Christian takes it upon themselves to say who's not the "REAL CHRISTIAN", The church thought he was as, again, he's never to this day been excommunicated from the Church, not even after his suicide and other egregious atrocity's. The catholic Church had an extremely anti-Semitic lean pre WW 2... or are you not aware of this?

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Hitler, despite what he said, was NOT a christian, never. [...]

 

Yes, the exact nature of the bastard's belief (or unbelief) is hard to tell. Not that it really matters of course. After all, did he kill all those millions of people with his own hands? Or could it be that he had damn many helpers... who almost all were christians? :fdevil:

 

In other words, even if fundie fuckfaces should ever successfully establish that "hitler was an athiest!!!11!!!11!!!", all they gain is the obligation to answer the question "So what about all those people who executed his inhuman orders?".

 

Oops. That damn reality again. :pureevil:

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Evidence he was not a Christian?

 

He killed himself, this is an unforgiveable sin.

So did God but.. I digress...

Yes, but don't forget, god took it back after three days so it don't count against him. ;)

 

mwc

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"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." Hitler, Mein Kampf.

 

A little research is all it takes...

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler-myths.htm

Here's a site that says he was a christian.

 

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

Here's a site that says he wasn't

 

Whether or not he was a christian, the fact that the only way Hitler could justify his evil actions and gather support for them was by using the rhetoric and doctrine of christianity, not evolution, not Nietzsche, or norse mythology, and the fact that the Christians fell for it, hook, line and sinker, suggests some fundamental flaws in christianity.

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Whether or not he was a christian, the fact that the only way Hitler could justify his evil actions and gather support for them was by using the rhetoric and doctrine of christianity, not evolution, not Nietzsche, or norse mythology, and the fact that the Christians fell for it, hook, line and sinker, suggests some fundamental flaws in christianity.

 

Yes but you could apply that to any religion or belief system. And you have to take into account what Hitler helped Germany do, a beaten, discraced, starving nation. He brought food and respect back to Germany...unfortunately he also had his own agenda...

 

Or could it be that he had damn many helpers... who almost all were christians?

 

Yes, the SS committed most of the crimes during the war and they were made up of ordinary germans, many of whom were christians.

 

To this day he's never been excommunicated from the Catholic Church

Of course not...he killed millions of the people who killed Jesus.

 

He never ever once recanted his faith, god or belief.

Not in public. That would have hurt him.

 

Read Mein Kampf for starters to see how much he thought god should be the center of government.

I have, in fact my copy is sitting 6 feet from me. The problem with that book is this: its not just a book, its a public statement. Its Hitler saying: "I am here and this is my plan." This was a public statement that could have been read (and he hoped would be read) by people, especially Germans.

 

Despite what he said?

Ill change this: Despite what he said in public.

 

Apathy is the reason why Hitler succeeded in taking over Europe. It doesn't matter if he was a xian or if he wasn't, many people have used religion as an excuse to do atrocious crimes throughout history. Its sick and demented, nothing new.

This is true.

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Yes, the SS committed most of the crimes during the war and they were made up of ordinary germans, many of whom were christians.

 

 

Self admitted Christians who supported, Voted , and carried not only the party but Hitler himself. Both Christians and the Church stood behind him, yet you create a post saying it's outrageous that Hitler was considered a Christian..(?).. :ugh:

 

To this day he's never been excommunicated from the Catholic Church

 

Of course not...he killed millions of the people who killed Jesus.

 

Then why is it so hard for you to grasp he was a Christian? This statement is an oxymoron to your original post. You'll make excuses for the Church not excommunicating him, yet turn around and state even though he did what the church endorsed he was in "no way never" a Christian. (??) :Hmm:

 

 

 

 

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Self admitted Christians who supported, Voted , and carried not only the party but Hitler himself. Both Christians and the Church stood behind him, yet you create a post saying it's outrageous that Hitler was considered a Christian..(?)..

This is true but he is not guilty be association in this case. Reguardless of the Church standing with him he and Himmler wanted to destroy christianity (and by extent the Church) and replace it with their own religion. If he were Christian then why would he allow the SS and Himmler to worship the bones of Heinrich I? (granted they never found the bones and used others instead.)

 

Five days after becoming Chancellor in 1933, Hitler allowed a sterilization law to pass, and had the Catholic Youth League disbanded (Shirer, The Rise).

 

Now why would he do this? To get people to join the Hitler Youth. Weakening the Church and strengthening the party.

 

Hitler also made an agreement with the Vatican to allow the Catholic Church to regulate its own affairs. (It is probably worth noting here the low value that Hitler placed on written agreements.) Parents were pressured to take their children out of religious schools. When the Church organized voluntary out-of-hours religious classes, the Nazi government responded by banning state-employed teachers from taking part. The Crucifix symbol was even at one point banned from classrooms in one particular jurisdiction, Oldenburg, in 1936, but the measure met with fierce public resistance and was rescinded. Hitler remained conscious of the affection for the Church felt in some quarters of Germany, particularly Bavaria. Later on, though, a wartime metal shortage was used as the excuse for melting church bells

 

A Hitler Youth marching song:

 

We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel,

Away with incense and Holy Water,

The Church can go hang for all we care,

The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.

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Hitler, despite what he said, was NOT a christian, never. He was different and freethinking from the time he was little. Did he believe in a higher being? This is hard to say, it would seem so. However this does not mean he was religious, he liked the order of religion so he used it as a model to organize the Nazi party. He merly USED christianity like a glue to bring the ideas the NDASP party represented (his ideas) and the state, consisting of German people, religious CHRISTIAN German people together. He used Christianity to HELP him. To help him come to power and stay in power AND in justification for killing all undesirables in Europe. Sure he wanted the fabled Spear of Destiny but only beacuse he wanted to control the fate of all mankind.

 

Evidence he was not a Christian?

 

He killed himself, this is an unforgiveable sin.

 

He was not married by a clergyman, but rather by a secular official. [Last Days of Hitler, p. 234].

 

Before he died he did not talk to any clergy men. [Last Days of Hitler, Ch. 6-7].

 

His own statements are somehwat contradictory. His speeches were used tell and order rather than to inform the people. However his private talk was much more anti-Christian.

 

Examples: "However weak the individual may be when compared with the omnipotence and will of Providence, yet at the moment when he acts as Providence would have him act he becomes immeasurably strong. Then there streams down upon him that force which has marked all greatness in the world's history. And when I look back on the five years which lie behind us, then I feel that I am justified in saying: That has not been the work of man alone.'" [bullock, p. 384-5]

 

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. [p. 51]

 

This latter quote is interesting. In Nazi ideology the Aryan Race was the best, strongest, most powerful race ever to exist and it was destined to overtake every other race. In this quote Hitler says that Christianity would lead to humanities failure...humanity includes the Aryans, the White Germans without Jewish blood who were regular party members and farmers and steelmill workers and coal miners and who gave the Reich its bread. However these same people were, in most cases, Christian... Perhaps here we see Hitler and Himmler's plans to creat a new religion, with the SS as its Knights and its HQ at Wewelsburg Castle... Perhaps here we see the apex of what Christianity and religion ment to Hitler and his cronies... And perhaps we find that it ment about as much as a Jewish life did to them...

 

Saying Hitler was not a Christian is like saying "Osama Bin Laden isn't a muslim!". Or "David Koresh isn't a Branch Davidian!". How retarded are you? Since christianity is based upon being "saved by grace through faith, not of works", then your actions have NOTHING to do with your faith. And Hitler clearly referred to the biblegod and Jesus in a positive light in Mein Kampf. Let's see....Hitler burned down synagogues, but left christian churches open and even went to a few of them. Hitler had concordats with the Vatican. Hitler was voted into power by the German Catholic party of Franz von Papen. Hitler tried to unify Germany under one state church. And after his murder of approximately 12 million innocent people, the Vatican yet to this day will not excommunicate him. So, in spite of all those things, you say Hitler isn't a christian? Then neither is anyone else I suppose. Had Hitler practiced "heresy" and anti-christian views, he would have been excommunicated (as the church did for all heretics).

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I don't know that it's necessarily true the Vatican would have excommunicated him for any less-than-blatantly-obvious heresy. It may well have been that Hitler was far too powerful for the Catholic Church to consider such a bold move against him.

 

That said, I agree with you and the others who have posted here in saying that it's ridiculous to make a positive assertion either way on the state of Hitler's personal belief in and adherence to Christianity. An individual's beliefs are ultimately personal, something only they can know and others can only speculate about.

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Five days after becoming Chancellor in 1933, Hitler allowed a sterilization law to pass, and had the Catholic Youth League disbanded (Shirer, The Rise).

 

The sole purpose for the German sterilization law was to make a supreme race. Mentally ill and handicapped people of German decent were the largest majority who were forced into sterilization followed by mixed races. You might be surprised to know that leading country in the world before Hitler's atrocities that practiced these barbaric practices was the United States, whom also targeted the mentally ill. The Catholic Church did not endorse these practices, however the Protestant churches for the most part endorsed and help aid in the propaganda for this policy. To read more you can Visit the United States Holocaust Museum here: USHMM

 

 

 

That being said have you ever heard of Hitler's Children? Women were encouraged to breed with memebers of the SS and some were even rewarded medals. Please also read about Hitlers Youth.

 

 

 

A Hitler Youth marching song:

 

We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel,

Away with incense and Holy Water,

The Church can go hang for all we care,

The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.

 

 

 

Please cite your source for this 'marching Song', The one I found is completely different. .

 

Hitler Youth Anthem :33

The Fahnenlied (Banner Song) written by Hitler Youth Leader Baldur von Schirach, is sung here by Berlin Hitler Youth members, ending with the final refrain...

 

Unsere Fahne flattert uns voran

(Our banner flutters before us)

Unsere Fahne ist die neue Zeit

(Our banner represents the new era)

Und die Fahne führt uns in die Ewigkeit!

(And our banner leads us to eternity!)

Ja, die Fahne ist mehr als der Tod

(Yes, our banner means more to us than death) Source: The History Place

 

 

As for the Horst Wessel Song I also have a translation wich doesn't match yours even remotly.

 

Translation Source

 

Flag high, ranks closed,

The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.

Comrades shot by the red front and reaction

march in spirit with us in our ranks.

 

The street free for the brown battalions,

The street free for the Storm Troopers.

Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;

The day breaks for freedom and for bread.

 

For the last time the call will now be blown;

For the struggle now we all stand ready.

Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;

Slavery will last only a short time longer.

 

Flag high, ranks closed,

The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.

Comrades shot by the red front and reaction

march in spirit with us in our ranks.

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