"they Are Feeding Chicken Shit To The Cattle"

[chefranden]

Letter to Jim Kunstler from a Missouri Farmer

 

Good day Jim:

I have been meaning to write to you for some time now. I held off because of your post not to pester you. You do not have to respond to this if you don't have time. For me, it just feels good speaking to somebody who is like minded. I apologize in advance for using you as a sounding board to vent my feelings. . . .

 

Do you remember me telling you about the farmers next door to us that did bagged silage and bagged haylage? they wrapped their big bales of hay in white plastic to ferment the hay. The plastic (petroleum) they use is unbelievable. The waste unimaginable.

 

Our neighbor is the son of the man who runs a very large cattle auction house here in midwest Missouri. Being right on Hwy 70 in the center of the state makes the auction lucrative because of its strategic location.

 

Our neighbor purchases cattle that come through the ring in poor shape, or cattle needing a few more pounds of weight. The farmers selling those cattle take a loss. Our neighbor buys them cheaper, and speculates that he can put enough weight on the cattle to turn them over in a few months and make a profit. I guess you could call it cattle speculation.

 

The fermenting big bales create a gigantic horrible stench as they ferment. I guess the field where they perform this operation holds about 500 to 800 big bales. Each big bale weighs between 900 to 1200 pounds or more. Imagine wrapping all of that in plastic. To say that this method of farming is unsustainable is an understatement. Now they have added insult to injury be utilizing another method of adding cheap fast pounds to their cattle.

 

We began to notice a new stench as we drove by the operation. This new odor put the smell of fermenting rotting hay to shame.

 

We found out shortly after that they are now purchasing chicken litter from poultry operations and they are feeding the chicken manure in wood shavings to the cattle. Yep, that's right. They are feeding chicken shit to the cattle. Makes you want to run right out and get a Big Mac.

 

Now they are building a pit silo. A pit silo is kind of like a berm house, or what they call an earth contact house. Only instead of filling the house with people, they will fill it with wood shavings and chicken shit, or alfalfa hay.

 

From our point of view this seems so unsustainable. Also, in light of our recent cutbacks and efforts at conservation, it makes it seem like we are not making much of a difference. I am just guessing, but I would say that for every farmer cutting down like we are, there are 50 who are doing bagged silage and feeding chicken shit to cattle.

 

Every instinct in my body tells me that feeding manure of any type, to any animal, is wrong. Earthworm farming may be the exception.

 

Jim, when we pasture our cattle there are always clumps of grass that remain untouched. These clumps are where cattle have defecated. Cattle instinctively know not to eat that grass. A cow will have to be starving to death before they will eat grass tainted with dung. By what lunacy do humans think they can undo nature without drastic consequences.

I don't know, maybe it is just me. But feeding chicken manure to cattle just sends chills down my spine. It feels like an act of desparate insanity.

 

We have not put down any synthetic nitrogen this year. Hay yields are down. Way down. We have 40 acres that we rent every year for hay. This is our last year to rent. Without applying synthetic nitrogen fertilizer we don't make our rent back on the hay we acquire. When we do apply synthetic nitrogen fertilizer, the bales are way too expensive after we pay the rent.

 

We have reduced our herd size by 25 percent.

 

My husband drives a Saturn SL1. he gets 42 miles per gallon, and is still cost him 160.00 a month in fuel. I drive a Buick Regal and get about 26-28 MPG. I am cutting back as much as I can to save fuel. I can not afford a more efficient vehicle.

 

Everything else just seems to be grinding along here. People still shop at Wal-Mart. The traffic level stays the same. Lynn and I have both slowed down to 60 mpg on the highway. (yes, we stay in the slow lane). People whiz around us like their backsides are on fire.

 

But, there are signs that things are really beginning to unravel. For Sale signs are popping up in yards next to Larger vehicles and especially the large Winnebagos. The small farm next door to us has been for sale for a year with no signs of selling.

 

There is a small town auction house in Auxvasse. The "Dusty Attic" has a weekly auction where they sell consigned items. Most of the buyers are flea market owners, and people who rent space at flea markets and antique stores.

 

Sales at Dusty Attic have become dismal. The flea markets are just covered up. Their merchandise is not selling. Even furniture (long a flea market mainstay) has stopped selling.

 

I volunteer at a local thrift shop/food bank. Donations are down. Sales are down. Of course, this is Mexico, Missouri where there are 1,000 empty houses. The jobs are gone and the people are slowly moving away. Missouri Military Academy is just about the only decent place of employment in the town.

 

A.P. Green was a firebrick foundery that thrived in Mexico for 100 years. They recently sent the factory overseas. When A.P. Green left, the town died.

 

Of course, Wal-Mart recently put in a new super-center on the outskirts of town.

 

Now, Walgreens is putting in a new store right by downtown.

Since Wal-Mart moved so far out of town most of the elderly in town can't afford to go to Wal-Mart for their medication.

 

Adding to this sense of unreality is the newest purchase by the Missouri Dept. of Transportation (MODOT).

 

Our young Governor, Matt Blunt (Roy Blunt's son)recently made national news when he slashed Missouri's Medicare program. Working at the food bank I have witnessed people being removed from wheelchairs and oxygen tanks, etc. The money from Medicare was in a general revenue fund. The money was suppossedly never slotted for Medicare. The money should have gone to the highway dept.

 

MODOT ended up with a lot of money.

 

Well, what have they done with that money? A recent newspaper article stated that all road repair and repaving in Callaway County (my county) would be halted for the next three years for lack of funding.

 

Oddly enough MODOT is in the process of installing mile markers across the entire state on Hwy 70. This makes no sense in light of the fact that we already have mile markers every single mile across the entire state, from St. Louis to Kansas City. This was not good enough for MODOT. They are now installing a mile marker every single tenth of a mile. What a waste. Also, they recently installed cable separating the two sides of HWy. 70. The cables do not stop larger vehicles, only sedans. They are a perfect height for an SUV to roll over. The cables are already falling apart.

 

A few years ago they installed plastic snow markers on the side of the Hwy. Those are almost all gone now. To me it just all seems like the act of desparate lunatics.

 

The thing is, Jim, I believe the great unraveling is not happening from the top down, but from the bottom up. I see a great unraveling taking place in the bottom right now. Most people just don't want to look down. They are too busy whistling in the dark.

Take care,

[woodsmoke]

Move over, hoof-and-mouth. There's a new super-killer in the making here.

[Fweethawt]

Isn't the entire cause of all this "madness" the final result of economics?

 

You have few people with money. They use that money to start businesses in order to make more money. They pay people to work for them in order to make even more money. Then, when the ceiling in that particular area is reached, and there's no more money to be made there, it moves elsewhere in order to generate a "profit".

 

This in turn leaves behind a once thriving community and they resort to whatever it takes to make a living the cheapest way possible.

 

It makes the cattle farmers feed their animals shit.

 

What a mess...

[LadyFeline]

Cattle are also being fed cattle by-products from slaughter houses. That's right - cow cannibals.

Yeah. And it's still higher-quality than the garbage fed to kids in school lunches. I envy the cows.

 

The most insidious product given to cattle is a hormone called diethylstilbestrol (DES), which is used for rapid weight-gain. It is carcinogenic to humans and remains in the animal's flesh. It also is passed in feces and goes into every local stream where cattle are being raised.

Yeah, I'd buy that crap if I didn't already know that antibiotic and horomone treatments stop at least two months before the animals' slaughter. Ergo, the substances are not present in the flesh.

 

Antibiotics are also passed along to eaters of cattle flesh.

And, for them to have any effect, you'd have to eat antibiotic-laden meat every day. There's a reason that prescribed antibiotics HAVE to be taken over a period of time to be effective - because one dose every now and then doesn't do shit.

 

And, before you spout off more conspiracy theories, the drugs don't stay in your body indefinitely.

 

How about some delicious veal? Veal is the flesh of young calves. To make this flesh especially delectable, calves are hobbled and kept in very small cages, not allowed ever to stand or walk. Then they are slaughtered for you.

Oh, boo hoo. Is this supposed to guilt me into not eating meat ever again? Am I supposed to fall to my knees and weep for the poor widdle defenswess baby cows?

 

As the market for cattle flesh has lessened somewhat, cattle farmers have now been permitted to do business in Cuba. Algo por un buck! God bless Amerika.

Clearly, you have no understanding of the economic forces behind the "lessening" of the meat market. If you did, you wouldn't be spouting off conspiracy-theorist garbage and acting like eating meat is Nazism or some garbage like that...

[LadyFeline]

5. Clearly, you are attacking me for no real reason. You are a strange little girl.

No, I'm just a college graduate fed up with wanna-be intellectuals who don't know shit. At least I'm not trying to feed people debunked conspiracy theories and half-baked, ill-informed opinions.

[HuaiDan]

And, for them to have any effect, you'd have to eat antibiotic-laden meat every day. 3. There's a reason that prescribed antibiotics HAVE to be taken over a period of time to be effective - because one dose every now and then doesn't do shit.

 

Have you ever heard of Azithromycin? For STD's it is usually prescribed as a single massive dose to be taken once and only once.

Injesting antibiotics doesn't bother me so much. It might if I were a pregnant woman. What bothers me most about antibiotics and their widespread use in farming is their contribution to the slective adaptation of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Considering the practice is a relatively new one, (antibiotics have only been around since the 1920's), I'm sure , in the long term, this will be a disaster. The whole human race is a single-stand crop ready to be wiped out by a plague.

[LadyFeline]

Have you ever heard of Azithromycin? For STD's it is usually prescribed as a single massive dose to be taken once and only once.

And, given the diseases it's intended to treat, I'm pretty sure its use isn't widespread. And I highly doubt they use it in the meat industry.

 

Injesting antibiotics doesn't bother me so much. It might if I were a pregnant woman. What bothers me most about antibiotics and their widespread use in farming is their contribution to the slective adaptation of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Considering the practice is a relatively new one, (antibiotics have only been around since the 1920's), I'm sure , in the long term, this will be a disaster. The whole human race is a single-stand crop ready to be wiped out by a plague.

Oh, I'm well-aware of the existence of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Staph, influenza, strep, and literally hundreds of other diseases are steadily growing more and more resistant to treatments. But it's not because of "drugs in the meat" - it's due to our habit of grossly overprescribing medications in order to "treat" minor illnesses, which gradually leads to more resistant bacteria.

 

If we stopped popping pills at every sneeze and sniffle, we wouldn't have to worry about a worldwide pandemic like you're suggesting.

 

What is the real reason for your hostility? Are you like this all the time?

Yes. I am.

 

Towards people who act like snot-nosed know-it-all whelps, anyway. People who don't spout off unproven conspiracy theories without any facts to back themselves up don't seem to have much of a problem with me, because I'm willing to deal with them civilly.

 

Present your argument in a manner that doesn't shriek "OMG TEH COW FARMURS R GUNNA KIL US!!!", and maybe I won't bite at you.

[Fweethawt]

Rrcanna, you have to understand something. Lady Feline has a lot of sexual tension built up over a long period of time.

 

You see, she wants me, and I want her, but we never seem to be able to meet up.

 

And here I sit, having to hold back my aggresion because she expresses enough for the both of us.

 

It really is sad the more I think about it...

 

 

Go easy on her. She doesn't mean half of what she says.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Dear God, protect me from the coming storm!)

[Fweethawt]

Honey, I don't care what you bite. And it's you who present yourself as a snot-nosed whelp. And it's you who doesn't know shit. But you go ahead and rave on, little darling. Your analysis of my post is silly, and (may I say it) just a bit stupid. I never had an "argument" to present. That's a reiteration of a point I've already made. I made a post, on topic with this thread. You, on the other hand, have no facts, so you rave. You have nothing to contribute, so you subscribe to your enormous ego and shout at people you don't know. I've seen your kind again and again. You're a bore, honey.

I'm tellin' ya, if you'd just read my last post up there, you'd understand everything!

 

No need to keep this one going.

[HuaiDan]

Come on guys, this is a discussion board, not a scientific journal. If you want proof or evidence to back up assertions, then ask for it nicely, or do the footwork yourself and provide the evidence to counter what the other person claims. There's absolutley no need to tear into somebody for not providing evidence to back up what they say on a discussion board. People can make all the blind assertions they want to. A simple "I don't believe you. Please provide evidence. Here's my evidnece that works against your assertion" will suffice.

 

Deep breath, everybody.

[Fweethawt]

That still doesn't negate the fact that Lady Feline wants to do me.

 

Just so you know.

[Jubilant]

Mad Cow is believed to be caused due to cattle being fed ground up animal parts including other cows. Here are two articles from the following sources: USA Today, Mayo Clinic

 

No, we shouldn't be alarmed and panic but come on, if people can get salmonella and e-coli and mad cow disease, I think it a bit much to brush off people who are genuinely concerned with what else is in their meat. The process for making herbivores eat other animals involves steaming and the ground up parts are turned into a protein powder and put on feed. Here is my question... I should think that the steaming process would remove harmful substances so why doesn't it?

 

Regarding the anti-biotics, I find contradictions within the scientific community on whether or not people actually receive them in their meat, so there really is no 'evidence' one way or the other but I lean to the side of caution regardless. However, there are resistant strains of bacteria in cattle; ecoli and salmonella and also salmonella in chickens. When people are victims of poorly cooked meat (be it at a restaraunt or in the home) OR in some cases ice cream and dairy products, more and more the antibiotics do not work. I believe its a combination of both overuse of anti-biotics by humans and giving anti-biotics to animals used for human consumption.

 

Herbivores are not meant to be meat-eaters, no more than people were meant and designed to drink animal milk. It is this gals opinion that screwing with NATURE like that is NOT a good thing for the animal nor the human. Thats my non-college educated, domestic goddess, 36 yo happily married and mother of two, .02 cents worth. Well that and I find it quite amusing that some college educated people ASSume that one needs to have a degree in order to have an opinion that matters....ever heard of BOOKS? They're readily available to all interested and many of us in the non-college educated realm have little problem understanding whats in them. Only difference is that I didn't have someone teach me what I've read.

 

"So I am living without fats, without meat, without fish, but am feeling quite well this way. It always seems to me that man was not born to be a carnivore." - Albert Einstein, source The Expanded Quotable Einstein

[Jubilant]

Well, now that the sun is shining and I don't have to worry about waking my husband I did find the following regarding antibiotic use in animals.....

 

From The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World :

 

Page 140

In 1999, a study in the New England Journal of Medicine reported that infections in humans by antibiotic-resistant bacteria had increased nearly eightfold between 1992-1997. (24) Part of the increase was traced to foreign travel, and part of the increase was linked to the use of antibiotics in chickens.

 

Page 140

"Recent studies show that bacteria in chickens are resistant to fluoroquinolones, the most recently approved class of antibiotics and one that scientists had been hoping would remain effective for a long time." (New York Times 1999)

 

It has only been since 1995 that fluoroquinolones began to be used in United States poultry production. Before then, fluoroquinolone resistance was unknown in the United States, except for people who had traveled to one of the few countries that permitted their use in animal agricultoure or had previously taken the drugs for illness.

 

Page 140-141

In 1999, an outbreak of fatal fluoroquinolone-resistant Salmonella infections in Denmark was traced to meat from infected pigs. Dr. Stuart Levy, director of the Center for Adaptation Genetic and Druc resistance at Tufts University, commented, "Fluoroquinoles have become the drug of last resort for these infections...We're beginning to lose these drugs. Where do we go from here?"

 

So I was wrong in my previous post, there is scientific evidence that antibiotics are STILL in the meat we eat and it does have a negative affect on humans.

[Vigile]

This is completely unscientific, but since moving to Russia I have become vastly more healthy. Everyone that sees me even remarks about it. My last few years in the US I was underweight, and had dark circles under my eyes along with pasty skin. My immune system was terrible and I caught two or three colds a year. Now I've gained weight and am at a healthy level, have pink skin and bright eyes and rarely catch a cold. It's really a stark difference, or I wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

It's totally anecdotal, I know. Food here is natural though - what is considered organic in the US - and is mostly grown on small farms left over from Russia's old collective developments. You can't get a decent steak here, and the chickens are pretty skinny but I guess there are tradeoffs to the hormone question.

 

Or, it could be the vodka.

[trashy]

It's amazing to me how quickly some are to believe what they read on a web site when the source is..................................

 

an anonymous farmer!

 

[Jubilant]

It's amazing to me how quickly some are to believe what they read on a web site when the source is..................................

 

an anonymous farmer!

 

 

I know that you're referring to Chef but it is a fact that cows are fed dead parts from other cows, horses, chickens, and shit, etc. I'm sure Chef researched before posting. The links provided in my posts, are not unknown sources.

[woodsmoke]

Jubilant, before you start in on condeming those of us who happily identify as omnivores, you may want to take a good long look and thoroughly read this thread.

 

At the very least, it'll keep the clutter on the boards down somewhat for you to launch into a tirade there insteady of hijacking this discussion.

 

It's amazing to me how quickly some are to believe what they read on a web site when the source is..................................

 

an anonymous farmer!

 

Point taken. Thanks for the reality check.

[Jubilant]

Jubilant, before you start in on condeming those of us who happily identify as omnivores, you may want to take a good long look and thoroughly read this thread.

 

At the very least, it'll keep the clutter on the boards down somewhat for you to launch into a tirade there insteady of hijacking this discussion.

 

Woodsmoke, chill. I haven’t condemned anybody. Did I show pictures or go on a tirade about animal cruelty or anything of the sort? No. Did I say, “You all should abstain from meat, its cruel and inhumane?“ No. That would be TRYING to condemn and make people feel guilty, which I have not attempted, nor planned to attempt to do because....I'm vegan because of health reasons. I buy chicken, steak, burger, pork for my family (but organic only). I don't stand around protesting outside leather goods stores, or farm houses, etc.

 

Talking about shit they feed cattle is most certainly on topic, I haven’t derailed a damn thing...on the other hand you have with your post directed at me. One more thing, during other discussions before I even entered in some other posts went off a little bit, why just call me out? Why not call every single person in this thread who didn't stick with what exactly was posted?

[LadyFeline]

How about some delicious veal? Veal is the flesh of young calves. To make this flesh especially delectable, calves are hobbled and kept in very small cages, not allowed ever to stand or walk. Then they are slaughtered for you.

While you're at it, kindly point out that you're talking about only one of the three kinds of veal (formula-fed, in this case). And admit that you're flat-out lying about the conditions that animals are kept in, because you are. They are raised in confinement, unquestionably - but so are most animals raised for milk and meat. It's becoming increasingly uncommon to have the conditions ("hobbled and kept in very small cages") you mentioned. In fact, most are kept in small pens, allowed to stand, stretch, and even *gasp!* groom themselves.

 

After all, it's their diet that results in the quality of the highly-prized and much-vaunted palate pleaser that is veal - not their activity.

 

I never had an "argument" to present.

You're right. All you have are PETA screaming points, appeals to emotion, and bald-faced lies

 

You're a bore, honey.

So are you, darling.

 

I believe that homo sapiens is undergoing many changes because of diet. The children are too tall, and they are too fat. Almost everyone, in fact, is too fat. The children are entering puberty at a much younger age. Generally, people are not as smart. To see these things, you only have to look.

If you're so "informed" about nutrition, you'd realize that people have been steadily getting taller over the past two centuries due to increased nutrition. And "almost everyone" is not fat. That's a phenomenon almost exclusive to the North American continent - the US in particular. Children are hitting puberty at younger ages, again, because of diets that are, by far, more nutritional than their great-grandparents'.

 

And, what, precisely, does intelligence (whoo, I smell a superiority complex!) have to do with the topic at hand? Eating doesn't make you "less smarter", sweetheart. Pretending that it does, on the other hand...

 

And, yes, I will also cast aspersions on the integrity of a "document" penned by an "anonymous farmer" (who complains first about the process of curing hay... geez... Must not be much of a "farmer"...) and sent to an ultimately anonymous website. Let me know when it actually hits the news - or, better yet, a peer-reviewed publication - and then I might take it with slightly less than a salt mine.

[LadyFeline]

Several things you said, above, are wrong. But there's no point in having a discussion with you, because you don't care about the subject matter. You care about the appearance of being right and the appearance of being cool. Some day, you will have actual opinions. Right now, you have hormones. Good luck on your finals.

Sorry. I had my last set of finals two years ago when I got my Associates Degree. Nice to see the levels some people will stoop to when they don't have any other recourse, though. Now, go pay your PETA dues and pretend you know everything there is to know about farming operations.

[woodsmoke]

Rrcana, kindly knock it off with the condescension.

 

LF is brash and aggressive, and sometimes she may go a little further than necessary in her rebuttals, but at least she's responding to points and trying to further the discussion; even if not in the most diplomatic manner.

 

If you're done with the discussion, stop posting. You can use "honey," "darling," "sweetheart" and any minor term of endearment that comes to mind until you're blue in the face; they don't make you seem "cute" and they don't hide the fact that you're not even trying anymore, you're just adding fuel to the fire.

 

Woodsmoke, chill. I haven’t condemned anybody. Did I show pictures or go on a tirade about animal cruelty or anything of the sort? No. Did I say, “You all should abstain from meat, its cruel and inhumane?“ No. That would be TRYING to condemn and make people feel guilty, which I have not attempted, nor planned to attempt to do because....I'm vegan because of health reasons. I buy chicken, steak, burger, pork for my family (but organic only). I don't stand around protesting outside leather goods stores, or farm houses, etc.

 

Talking about shit they feed cattle is most certainly on topic, I haven’t derailed a damn thing...on the other hand you have with your post directed at me. One more thing, during other discussions before I even entered in some other posts went off a little bit, why just call me out? Why not call every single person in this thread who didn't stick with what exactly was posted?

 

I realize now I should have been more specific. I apologize for the misunderstanding and the unintended offense.

 

I have two particular points of contention with your previous post. First:

 

Herbivores are not meant to be meat-eaters, no more than people were meant and designed to drink animal milk.

 

I'd like to know if you can cite any scientific proof/evidence of any kind of detrimental effect that accompanies the consumption of milk from other animals. I've seen plenty of PETA pamphlets claiming that animal by-products are unhealthy for humans and the producers of such are all in on the big, insidious government conspiracy, but I've never seen/heard any legitimate/respectable source even hint toward that possibly being the case.

 

The second was the quote you posted by Einstein, though in hindsight I can see how I may have been overzealous in my original understanding of that. I took the combination of his having said he was a vegetarian and the observation that "humans aren't meant to be carnivores" to mean "there is no good reason people should be eating meat." I suppose it could simply mean that consumption of meat alone is unnatural for our species; a point I would have to agree with. Either way, I suppose it's not so much a point of discussion as a personal musing.

[Jubilant]

I'd like to know if you can cite any scientific proof/evidence of any kind of detrimental effect that accompanies the consumption of milk from other animals.

 

No, my reasons for that are based on natural healing advocates, personal opinion of how stopping milk has helped me feel so much better, and reading about and hearing about people who benefited, even from asthma symtoms by not consuming it or dairy products anymore. (the people I read and know about were not on any anti campaign, just sharing personal health benefits of their diet) No scientific proof or evidence but when it comes to food, I'm not a big truster of the government nor necessarily all doctors. I'd been drinking milk for over 36 years and never knew that I had a problem with it until I craved it twice during the past month and had a glass, both times resulted in a yeast infection, stuffy nose, and minor pain in the joints. The same thing has happened, minus the yeast infection when I've been out of my dietary staples and had meat.

 

I've seen plenty of PETA pamphlets claiming that animal by-products are unhealthy for humans and the producers of such are all in on the big, insidious government conspiracy, but I've never seen/heard any legitimate/respectable source even hint toward that possibly being the case.

 

I've never seen a PETA pamphlet, from what I see on the news they're a little overboard.

 

However, for scientific evidence and studies I do strongly recommed the books Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weightloss and The China Study which according to the New York Times (in the book Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weightloss) page 69 says is the

"Grand Prix of all epidemiological studies" and the most comprehensive large study ever underatken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease."

 

Of course, I'm not going to quote the whole book but here are some samples for you.

 

From page 69 Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weightloss

"The China Project was valid because it studied populations with a full range of dietary possibilities: from a completely plant-food diet to diets that included a significant amount of animal foods."

 

From page 70 of Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weightloss regarding the China Study:

"Researches dound that as the amount of animal foods increased in the diet, even in relatively small increments, so did the emergence of cancers that are common in the west. Most cancers occurred in direct proportion to the quantity of animal foods consumed."

 

"The China Project showed a strong correlation between cancer and the amount of animal protein, not just animal fat, consumed. Consumption of lean meats and poultry still showed a strong correlation with higher cancer incidence. These findings indicate that even low-fat animal foods such as skinless white-meat chicken are implicated in certain cancers."

 

From page 73" the China project concluded: "There appears to be no threshold of plant-food enrichment or minimization of animal product intake beyond which further disease prevention does not occur. These findings suggest that even small intakes of foods of animal origin are associated with significant increases in plasma cholesterol concentration, which are associated, in turn, with significant increases in chronic degenerative diesease mortality rates." In other words, populations with very low cholesterol levels have not only low heart-disease rates but low cancer rates as well."

 

The China Study is unique in that they studied villages in China, villages where people live their whole lives. That to me is a good scientific study and one worthy of looking into, especially when considering that the two leading causes of death in Americans are Heart Disease and Cancer. It was led by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. of Cornell University.

 

The second was the quote you posted by Einstein, though in hindsight I can see how I may have been overzealous in my original understanding of that. I took the combination of his having said he was a vegetarian and the observation that "humans aren't meant to be carnivores" to mean "there is no good reason people should be eating meat." I suppose it could simply mean that consumption of meat alone is unnatural for our species; a point I would have to agree with. Either way, I suppose it's not so much a point of discussion as a personal musing.

 

Here are some scientific studies done on the benefits of eating a HEALTHY vegetarian diet The Vegetarian Site ...only stressed healthy because candy bars and chips and other junky foods are technically (vegetarian). Perhaps Einstein said that because he knew and observed how much healthier vegetarians were, I'm not sure. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that, it was my fault for putting the quote down in the first place.

[Loren]

Thread moved to Lion's Den by Loren.

[LadyFeline]

Stop posting, you say? Who are you?

He's a Senior Member. Who are you, sweetness?

[Vigile]

Rrcana, kindly knock it off with the condescension.

 

 

Woody, after the uncalled for trollish response rrcanna received from her in post #5 it's no wonder he's defensive. I'm not sure why you are calling him out.