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Exorcism - Deliverance - The Devil


Johnny Smith
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My experience with "deliverance" and "exorcism" began at the age of eight years old.

 

It was at that age that I said the "sinners prayer," and thus believed myself to be "saved." I was also "baptized in the Holy Spirit" at that time. My parents were heavily involved in demonology. At night, I remember listening to cassette tapes about people who died and were allegedly brought back to life. These people told stories about hellfire, demons, and Jesus Christ's miraculous interventions restoring them to life. Of course, these Hellish Near Death Experiences became the catalyst for their money-making ministries.

 

At the age of fourteen, I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism). I was heavily involved in the Mormon church until the age of eighteen. After doing extensive research on the history of Mormonism, I made a "recommitment to the real Jesus." Of course, my parents were thrilled. The night I decided to leave Mormonism, my folks "layed hands on me." I began to shake, weep, and then the exorcism began. My father began casting out the "demon of Moroni." In Mormonism, Moroni is the angel credited with revealing the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith, first Latter-day Saint "Prophet" and founder of the Mormon Church. Impressionable, I really "felt" something as my father was attempting to cast the "spirit of Moroni" out of me. I cried, screamed, shaked, and then basked in the "glory of the Holy Spirit" afterwards.

 

A few months later, I revealed to my parents that I was having homosexual thoughts. I was plagued by them. Of course, my parents were convinced that a "spirit of homosexuality" was inflicting me. I underwent two more exorcisms within a few months time. Wanting desperately to be "cured," I felt a "release" at that time from those hideous thoughts.

 

The next year I went to Bible College. The first week at the Bible College was called "clean out week." The musicians would get on stage and play "worship songs" in a minor key. Staff of the college would walk around the facility, using their "gifts of discernment" to find students to lay hands on and get rid of the demons that were oppressing or possessing us. I was targeted.

 

In fact, the Pastor jumped off the stage, and with six other men, pinned me to the ground. He began to cast out the spirits of "lust, witchcraft, control" and a host of other terms with negative connotations. I was psychologically affected by this event, and began to scream, cough, yell, curse, and speak in an altered, high pitched, raspy, demonic-type voice. After this third exorcism, I just knew I was "free." They began to play an old pentecostal song, "Look What the Lord has Done." The lyrics:

 

Look What the Lord Has Done.

Look What the Lord Has done.

He Healed my Body.

He Touched My Mind.

He Saved Me Right on Time.

Oh I'm Gonna Praise His Name.

 

People began to run about the building, dancing in the "freedom of the Lord." I let loose, believing with all my might that the Lord had healed me. Walking home from Bible College that day, I had sexual thoughts. I was 19.

 

Throughout the course of those two years in Bible School Hell, I underwent many other sessions of deliverance and exorcism in a public setting. Lots of emotion and tears were always a part of these sessions. Each time I was convinced that the evil that was in/around me had left. I would spend hours pacing my apartment floor, praying in loud tongues, "warring in the heavenlies." I was not afraid to "fight the devil" in my personal prayer times. My prayers were loud and passionate. My tongues were diverse. Looking back at all that, I can certainly understand why people thought that those of us a part of this movement were in a cult and perhaps mentally unstable.

 

I have not fully reconciled these experiences. How could I have been so susceptible by these archaic practices? Why did I scream, yell, pant, and speak in strange voices when the "devils" were being cast out of me? Why the fuck was I so irrational?

 

I am now twenty-six. I have, for the most part, separated myself from the belief in deity. I must say, however, that I still struggle. At times, I am still "bound" by my past. I have days of clarity when I am certain that God does not exist and that Jesus is a fantasy. Other days I find myself slipping into the desire to be controlled by this former fantasy. With all the dysfunction and abuse, there were times of perceived joy.

 

I try very hard not to be angry or depressed over the past. Giving into the anger and depression acknowledges the control this fantasy still has on my life. It is easier said than done.

 

I have never written in a public forum about the "deliverances" and "exorcisms" I experienced. The ones written about in this thread are not my only experiences. As I left this Bible School, I embraced a more conservative, evangelical mindset. I attended a church where these types of things did not happen. I wanted some answers on why they happened to me. The Pastors could never answer the questions. They would cop out with the famous phrase, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

 

I've thrown it all out. I don't ever want to go back to the Christian Cult. I hope, someday, I am no longer haunted by my Christian past.

 

Please feel free to use this thread to post your own experiences with "demonic exorcisms/deliverance sessions."

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

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Great topic. I guess my experiences with so-called demon possession still has me wondering about the truth behind them.

 

I found that in the 80s being part of penticostal churches that Spiritual warfare was a huge thing. People were always praying against this spirit and that spirit, trying to release people from them. Being a cynic, I couldn't help but think they were just desperately trying to pull out any name they could, hoping they were right. The spirit of that, the spirit of this.... making out they had the gift of discernment. But casting out these demons (if indeed they were cast out) never seemed to make any difference.

 

In one church I was at there was a possessed woman and the demon would manifest itself every sunday during the praise and worship. She would scream, foam at the mouth, curse. The leadership would be there praying desperately for her. I left home shortly after that and moved to a different town. But my parents said it was still going on. My mother even claimed once that one Sunday they believed she had been set free. But apparently a few weeks later the demon was back again. Nothing had changed. It resulted in a lot of people leaving the church. The pastor and the possessed woman even had an affair. The amazing thing is, all the possessed woman's kids are still Christians today after all that shit.

 

My personal experiences was with my Uncle. Great guy, very strong Christian. I had and still have a lot of respect for him. I had a lot to do with him in the early 90s (I was in my early 20s). He even started a small prayer group up on Wednesday nights, which I went along to. We used to do spiritual warfare all the time. Several times he asked me and others to pray over him because he felt he was under bondage. As soon as we started praying his body would start to twist and turn (it seemed unnatural). His eyes would go all glassy and he would grunt and groan (particularly when bible verses were read out loud) just like he was possessed. The thing is, he had no mental illnesses (that we knew of) and he was a very honest, sincere individual. I can't believe he would have put an act on like that to decieve us. It certainly made me believe at the time. Now I'm not sure. Have to believe there was some kind of logical explanation for it. Maybe it was a psychological thing and in his subconscious he felt he had to behave that way? Perhaps unintentionally. (shrug)

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My personal experiences was with my Uncle. Great guy, very strong Christian. I had and still have a lot of respect for him. I had a lot to do with him in the early 90s (I was in my early 20s). He even started a small prayer group up on Wednesday nights, which I went along to. We used to do spiritual warfare all the time. Several times he asked me and others to pray over him because he felt he was under bondage. As soon as we started praying his body would start to twist and turn (it seemed unnatural). His eyes would go all glassy and he would grunt and groan just like he was possessed. The thing is, he had no mental illnesses (that we knew of) and he was a very honest, sincere individual. I can't believe he would have put an act on like that deliberately. It certainly made me believe at the time. Now I'm not sure. Have to believe there was some kind of logical explanation for it. Maybe it was a psychological thing and in his subconscious he felt he had to behave that way? Perhaps unintentionally. (shrug)

 

I don't have any answers, either. I have ceased believing in the supernatural. I can still speak in tongues, but to me, it is as natural a phenomenon as JRR Tolkien coming up with his "Hobbit languages." Pentecostals, some better at it than others, simply have found a way to bring some type of syntax to their babblings.

 

Back when I was participating in, and indeed the victim of, demonic "deliverances" and "exorcisms," it was all a very real experience. Similar to your Uncle, I did not manifest any type of "mental illness" and for all intents and purposes, seemed to have a "good head on my shoulders." Of course, years later, I believe some of these "spiritual" abuses have affected certain areas of my personal life. I have thought about going to professional, secular, counseling, but have not yet moved in that direction.

 

I am inclined to believe that these experiences are, as you say, psychological afflications operating at a subconscious level. That is my non-professional opinion.

 

Still sorting it all out...

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I didn't have much experience with 'the devil.' The only thing that ever happened to me was the time I remembered committing the unforgivable sin, as I had buried it in my subconscious and forgot about it. I can't really describe it, but I was 'reminded' of doing it right at the most inopportune time, as if some entity had taken control of my mind and brought out this memory that I hadn't thought of in years. It hit me like a sack of bricks. It was scary and I did think that Satan was the one who reminded me of doing it. It still upsets me sometimes.

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I don't have any answers, either. I have ceased believing in the supernatural. I can still speak in tongues, but to me, it is as natural a phenomenon as JRR Tolkien coming up with his "Hobbit languages." Pentecostals, some better at it than others, simply have found a way to bring some type of syntax to their babblings.

 

Oh yeah, i think you're spot on there. Some make it sound more like a language than others. It can sound impressive, but really it's just gobbledeegook.

 

 

I didn't have much experience with 'the devil.' The only thing that ever happened to me was the time I remembered committing the unforgivable sin, as I had buried it in my subconscious and forgot about it. I can't really describe it, but I was 'reminded' of doing it right at the most inopportune time, as if some entity had taken control of my mind and brought out this memory that I hadn't thought of in years. It hit me like a sack of bricks. It was scary and I did think that Satan was the one who reminded me of doing it. It still upsets me sometimes.

 

I wonder if something you saw, heard or read triggered off the memory. Guilt is a powerful thing too and I think the worst feelings of guilt can come from ourselves when we think we are no good, we're bad, or useless. We can do a perfectly good job of condemning ourselves without the devil doing it.

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The thing about demons/possesions and the like, is that it works a lot like voodoo. If you believe in it enough, it is easy to fool yourself into accepting it. The power of suggestion is a very real and powerful thing - you don't have to be crazy or easily influenced to fall under its spell. You just have to believe.

 

It takes faith to be 'possessed', just like it takes faith to 'speak in tongues'.

 

When people deal with this kind of stuff (or alien abductions, ghosts, etc.), they always seem to discount the power of the human mind. It should be the first thing they consider.

 

Just ask yourself, which is more likely to be true: supernatural beings exist and can make us do things against our will, or we have incredibly powerful brains that can play tricks on us? :shrug:

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I had a dreadful experience last year which convinced me I had indeed committed that dreadful unforgivable sin (see totalblasphemy.com - it's weird but it happened). At one point I felt totally evil.

 

Now every day is a struggle but things are improving, slowly.

 

 

Jon.

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I had a great conversation with a friend about these experiences last evening.

 

Her perception is that many of these events, especially when experienced by seemingly sincere individuals, are nothing more than a form of hypnosis. Though the person who is experiencing the exorcism is not taking literal orders, he/she is highly responsive to suggestion or direction. In this case, the behavior acted out is that which the subconscious mind associates with demonic possession. These suggestions can be learned in previous non-hypnotic states through books, movies, or stories from a preacher in the pulpit. The exorcism is a state of altered consciousness.

 

Thinking about my own personal experiences in this light has brought a certain amount of solace.

 

JS

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I was just about to bring up the "hypnosis" factor, Johnny Smith. I agree with your friend. Just about anything a pentecostal/charismatic can do, can also be done by hypnotists. Especially many of the psychosomatical "healings" you see. Did you know that people have had surgery with absolutely no medication and given birth under hypnosis, with absolutely no pain? While there is debate on how it exactly works, hypnosis is scientifically validated to be real. The brain waves of a personal speaking in tongues and the brain waves of someone under hypnosis are exactly the same. Here is a article about hypnosis is pentecostal/charismatic circles:

 

The Battle for your Mind

 

The article is brief, but there are thousands of books have been written about the link between cults and hypnosis. It would probably really help you, going through your deconversion and all, to read up on the subject. Most scientists believe that all that is required to hypnotize someone is to distract, shock, and/or overload their conscious mind so they can gain access to their subconscious mind in order to plant suggestions. Another article (this is Christian, but the information is useful) comparing pentecostal religious experiences with that of eastern religions :Hindu Gurus and Pentecostal Preachers Identical

 

Notice almost every single group experiences "tongues" when in an altered state of mind. I'll never forget when I was watching a hypnotist demonstrater at my community college one day. I was still a Christian. The man called several volunteers to the stage, hypnotized them, and then said one of them was going to talk in "moon talk" and the other one was going to interpret what she said. Could have knocked me out of my seat (I was also pentecostal) I could have been sitting in a church service. She sounded exactly like she was speaking in tongues. And the other girl interpreted so calm and eloquently, just like someone from my local church would have. It was really weird.

 

Things that make you think.

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Variable -

 

Incredible links!!!!!!! I am half way through reading "Battle for your mind." Reading these words bring back so many memories of my born again spiritual experiences which began at a young age. I had never thought of them as catharsis! This is an incredibly new and rational way of looking at these experiences.

 

When I was studying for the ministry, people used to tell me how "anointed" my preaching was. The altered state of emotion experienced by a group of believers in a charismatic congregation was always labeled as "the anointing." The way people "felt" during the sermons was evidence of the Holy Spirit's strong manifesting presence in a church service.

 

The article also speaks of the six conversion techniques. One of the techniques is through isolating participants from the outside world in order to achieve a proper setting for indoctrination through hypnosis. I can directly apply this to the "clean out week" I mentioned earlier. This week occurred at the beginning of each Bible School year. It was five days of repetetive music, repetetive tongues, fatiguing spiritual warfare prayers, dancing in the spirit, laying on of hands, casting out of devils, group chants of scripture, etc., Of course the leaders had learned these things through generations of pentecostal affiliation. They didn't know it was hypnosis, but they were masters of it! And I was one of the hypnotized!

 

As I have been deconverting, I have been looking for an article such as this to explain the phenomenon I experienced. It was very real. It was very hypnotic. It was hypnosis!

 

Wow... I'm going to keep reading.

 

JS

 

I was just about to bring up the "hypnosis" factor, Johnny Smith. I agree with your friend. Just about anything a pentecostal/charismatic can do, can also be done by hypnotists. Especially many of the psychosomatical "healings" you see. Did you know that people have had surgery with absolutely no medication and given birth under hypnosis, with absolutely no pain? While there is debate on how it exactly works, hypnosis is scientifically validated to be real. The brain waves of a personal speaking in tongues and the brain waves of someone under hypnosis are exactly the same. Here is a article about hypnosis is pentecostal/charismatic circles:

 

The Battle for your Mind

 

The article is brief, but there are thousands of books have been written about the link between cults and hypnosis. It would probably really help you, going through your deconversion and all, to read up on the subject. Most scientists believe that all that is required to hypnotize someone is to distract, shock, and/or overload their conscious mind so they can gain access to their subconscious mind in order to plant suggestions. Another article (this is Christian, but the information is useful) comparing pentecostal religious experiences with that of eastern religions :Hindu Gurus and Pentecostal Preachers Identical

 

Notice almost every single group experiences "tongues" when in an altered state of mind. I'll never forget when I was watching a hypnotist demonstrater at my community college one day. I was still a Christian. The man called several volunteers to the stage, hypnotized them, and then said one of them was going to talk in "moon talk" and the other one was going to interpret what she said. Could have knocked me out of my seat (I was also pentecostal) I could have been sitting in a church service. She sounded exactly like she was speaking in tongues. And the other girl interpreted so calm and eloquently, just like someone from my local church would have. It was really weird.

 

Things that make you think.

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Ahhh ive been following this post for a while waiting for somebody to give some explantion like that. I mean i never had an 'experience', but i was also not going to church (home christian). I havent read the links yet but they look promising. Does anyone have any explanation for the exrocism of a young boy by a 'Father Bowdern'. I saw a documentary on it, and it freeked me out. The boy was speaking in latin, but apprently it wasnt latin from the prayers the preist were doing. Please lets have more discussion.

 

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ion/re0137.html

 

Call me weak minded, but fear is a powerful element that really gets to me. The preists helping, were informed to document the happenings in a journal.

 

Father Bowdern just asked the young priest to hold down the violent boy as the rite of exorcism was read but the boy lashed out and broke his nose. Father Halloran would later relate that he saw lines and words written on the boy's body including the word, "hell." Although the weeks in which he helped with this case of possession would make him a reluctant minor celebrity he regarded the exorcism as just one event in his life and not the most important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Halloran

 

It would be a real help to close some of the questions in my head, thnx guyz.

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Today at work we were talking about "The Exorcist" and this girl who works there, who can't be more than 26 or so, was like, "I just couldn't watch that movie. I've seen it happen in real life before and it really scared me!"

 

Pfft.

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Ahhh ive been following this post for a while waiting for somebody to give some explantion like that. I mean i never had an 'experience', but i was also not going to church (home christian). I havent read the links yet but they look promising. Does anyone have any explanation for the exrocism of a young boy by a 'Father Bowdern'. I saw a documentary on it, and it freeked me out. The boy was speaking in latin, but apprently it wasnt latin from the prayers the preist were doing. Please lets have more discussion.

 

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ion/re0137.html

 

Call me weak minded, but fear is a powerful element that really gets to me. The preists helping, were informed to document the happenings in a journal.

 

Father Bowdern just asked the young priest to hold down the violent boy as the rite of exorcism was read but the boy lashed out and broke his nose. Father Halloran would later relate that he saw lines and words written on the boy's body including the word, "hell." Although the weeks in which he helped with this case of possession would make him a reluctant minor celebrity he regarded the exorcism as just one event in his life and not the most important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Halloran

 

It would be a real help to close some of the questions in my head, thnx guyz.

 

Hey Matt. Read this webpage I found. It's 5 pages in all, but it is a good read that goes in-depth at uncovering the truths of what really happened to the boy. A lot of the details of what really happened have been greatly exaggerated. The author of the article did a huge investiagtion, right down to tracking down friends/neighbors of this boy. It is a very interesting read. Here's the link, and I hope it will put your fears to rest. :)

 

http://www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html

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I've never seen any credible evidence for the existence of a devil, demons, evil spirits, or any such thing. I have long said that all the devils are in here (pointing to the head). My wife, however, is an ex-pentecostal, and when she was a teenager she was a bit rebellious, and was "exorcized" by her mother and aunt. LOL!!! (She's still rebellious) :lmao:

 

I did go to a pentecostal service one time, out of curiosity, and witnessed speaking in tongues. Entertaining, but phony. I'm sure the participants had a great time.

 

 

 

“The rulers of the earth have realized long ago what potent poison inheres in the Christian religion. That is the reason they foster it; that is why they leave nothing undone to instill it into the blood of the people.” (Emma Goldman)

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I think its BS.. I've never had any supernatural experiences... The closet thing to supernatural for me would be scanning electron microscopy.

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I've never seen any credible evidence for the existence of a devil, demons, evil spirits, or any such thing. I have long said that all the devils are in here (pointing to the head). My wife, however, is an ex-pentecostal, and when she was a teenager she was a bit rebellious, and was "exorcized" by her mother and aunt. LOL!!! (She's still rebellious) :lmao:

 

I did go to a pentecostal service one time, out of curiosity, and witnessed speaking in tongues. Entertaining, but phony. I'm sure the participants had a great time.

 

Hmmm.. I understand your point on speaking in tongues being entertaining. Nevertheless, I'd disagree that it is all phony. Supernatural? Definitely not. However, in my mind, phony means not genuine. Perhaps I'm just reading too much into it. Having been raised in Pentecostalism, I would have to say from experience that a good portion of the folks that manifest glossolalia (speaking in tongues) are completely convinced that there is power in their words. To them, as it was to me, it is a "heavenly language." A language of intimacy between their higher power and themselves.

 

So, in my not so humble opinion, a good extent of those who speak in tongues do it very genuinely. It is very sincere, but not supernatural. At least, that is my experience.

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

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It seems like when people speak in tongues it isn't a foreign language it's just gibberish.

And what purpose does tongue speak serve? You're just sitting there and babbling on and on in a supposed "language" that you don't even understand. It is absolutely ridiculous and a waste of time...

 

I am so sorry that you had to endure all of that Johnny. I can just imagine some freak running up to me and yelling "Demons get out in the name of JAYSUS!!!" That would scare the shit out of me(being that I don't like people invading my space)...I can just imagine how many children and adults have been psychologically damaged by that.

 

Well, you took the first step by admitting it all. I salute you.

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It seems like when people speak in tongues it isn't a foreign language it's just gibberish.

And what purpose does tongue speak serve? You're just sitting there and babbling on and on in a supposed "language" that you don't even understand. It is absolutely ridiculous and a waste of time...

 

You are right. It does not serve a purpose. However, I thought I would give you a little insight on the purpose that those who speak in tongues thinks it serves. Tongue-talkers believe it is a way to bring inspiration to their spirit. Many believe that as they are speaking in tongues, the so called God will give them a personal translation.

 

I used to pray this way. I'd spend hours at a time praying in tongues and "interpreting" my prayers in English. Thinking back on all of that, it was like I was in a trance. I'd pace the room, with tears and passion in my voice, speaking in tongues and interpreting. I'd work myself up into a frenzy wherein I would reach catharsis (the process of releasing, and thereby providing relief from, strong or repressed emotions).

 

At the time, I thought it was the "Holy Spirit" literally controlling every aspect of my body, mind, and "spirit." After some of these particularly "effective" marathon prayer sessions, I experienced a heightened sense of energy and tranquility. I literally felt "stronger" in my emotions. A method of self-hypnosis perhaps. Some prayer sessions were better than others. The prayer sessions that weren't particularly effective always left me exhausted. I learned all of this in the church/school I was a part of, and people took special pride in getting "lost in the spirit." (i.e., the praying person would lose sense of time and be in this frenzy of emotion without the slightest reservations... like they were experiencing another world within this world).

 

I must state that the things I am writing about are not necessarily common in the typical charismatic/pentecostal church. More moderate congregations participate in these activities to a much lesser degree than perhaps the movement of which I was a part.

 

I am so sorry that you had to endure all of that Johnny. I can just imagine some freak running up to me and yelling "Demons get out in the name of JAYSUS!!!" That would scare the shit out of me(being that I don't like people invading my space)...I can just imagine how many children and adults have been psychologically damaged by that.

 

Well, you took the first step by admitting it all. I salute you.

 

These twenty-six years of my life have been very interesting. I feel like I have lived many lifetimes with the religious hysteria of which I was a part. Hopefully life can only get better, and more normal, from here.

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

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I've never seen any credible evidence for the existence of a devil, demons, evil spirits, or any such thing. I have long said that all the devils are in here (pointing to the head). My wife, however, is an ex-pentecostal, and when she was a teenager she was a bit rebellious, and was "exorcized" by her mother and aunt. LOL!!! (She's still rebellious) :lmao:

 

I did go to a pentecostal service one time, out of curiosity, and witnessed speaking in tongues. Entertaining, but phony. I'm sure the participants had a great time.

 

Hmmm.. I understand your point on speaking in tongues being entertaining. Nevertheless, I'd disagree that it is all phony. Supernatural? Definitely not. However, in my mind, phony means not genuine. Perhaps I'm just reading too much into it. Having been raised in Pentecostalism, I would have to say from experience that a good portion of the folks that manifest glossolalia (speaking in tongues) are completely convinced that there is power in their words. To them, as it was to me, it is a "heavenly language." A language of intimacy between their higher power and themselves.

 

So, in my not so humble opinion, a good extent of those who speak in tongues do it very genuinely. It is very sincere, but not supernatural. At least, that is my experience.

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

 

 

Actually, Johnny, phony is exactly the word I would use, at least within the spiritual context, for that is how it was taught to me by the denomination I belonged to. The southern baptists that I once belonged to (decades ago) regarded it as hysteria at best, heresy at worst. That is to say, non-scriptural and not from the holy spirit. (To claim it is, I guess would be blasphemous as well).

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I've never seen any credible evidence for the existence of a devil, demons, evil spirits, or any such thing. I have long said that all the devils are in here (pointing to the head). My wife, however, is an ex-pentecostal, and when she was a teenager she was a bit rebellious, and was "exorcized" by her mother and aunt. LOL!!! (She's still rebellious) :lmao:

 

I did go to a pentecostal service one time, out of curiosity, and witnessed speaking in tongues. Entertaining, but phony. I'm sure the participants had a great time.

 

Hmmm.. I understand your point on speaking in tongues being entertaining. Nevertheless, I'd disagree that it is all phony. Supernatural? Definitely not. However, in my mind, phony means not genuine. Perhaps I'm just reading too much into it. Having been raised in Pentecostalism, I would have to say from experience that a good portion of the folks that manifest glossolalia (speaking in tongues) are completely convinced that there is power in their words. To them, as it was to me, it is a "heavenly language." A language of intimacy between their higher power and themselves.

 

So, in my not so humble opinion, a good extent of those who speak in tongues do it very genuinely. It is very sincere, but not supernatural. At least, that is my experience.

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

 

Actually, Johnny, phony-not genuine-is exactly the word, as it was told to me by the denomination I used to belong to waayyy back when I was a christian. The southern baptists I was a part of regarded it as hysteria at best, heresy at worst, and possibly even blasphemous. It was described as not scriptural, and not from the holy spirit.

 

It seems like the pentecostals/charismatics put a lot more emphasis on demons and devils, too. Really superstitious, IMO. :Wendywhatever:

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Actually, Johnny, phony-not genuine-is exactly the word, as it was told to me by the denomination I used to belong to waayyy back when I was a christian. The southern baptists I was a part of regarded it as hysteria at best, heresy at worst, and possibly even blasphemous. It was described as not scriptural, and not from the holy spirit.

 

At this point in my life I care very little about what Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, Charismatics, or any other denomination taught about perceived spiritual experiences. Their belief in the infallibility of biblical scripture, in my opinion, is just as ludicrous as the belief that speaking in tongues is supernatural.

 

Supernatural: Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

 

It seems like the pentecostals/charismatics put a lot more emphasis on demons and devils, too. Really superstitious, IMO.

 

Superstitious: a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief.

 

So yes, I would agree that demonology, devils, tongues, and the like are superstitious.

 

Therefore, I would reiterate what I said previously:

 

In my personal experience, these phenomenons were very real, and thus genuine (sincere), at the times I was experiencing them. I did not wake up in the morning and say, "gee, I think I'm going to make everyone think I'm really spiritual today by undergoing an exorcism and speaking in tongues." That would be phony-not genuine. The word genuine can be applied to a person's matter of intent, even if their intentions are based on fantasy, as mine were.

 

They were genuinely non-supernatural experiences.

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

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Actually, Johnny, phony-not genuine-is exactly the word, as it was told to me by the denomination I used to belong to waayyy back when I was a christian. The southern baptists I was a part of regarded it as hysteria at best, heresy at worst, and possibly even blasphemous. It was described as not scriptural, and not from the holy spirit.

 

At this point in my life I care very little about what Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, Charismatics, or any other denomination taught about perceived spiritual experiences. Their belief in the infallibility of biblical scripture, in my opinion, is just as ludicrous as the belief that speaking in tongues is supernatural.

 

Supernatural: Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

 

It seems like the pentecostals/charismatics put a lot more emphasis on demons and devils, too. Really superstitious, IMO.

 

Superstitious: a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief.

 

So yes, I would agree that demonology, devils, tongues, and the like are superstitious.

 

Therefore, I would reiterate what I said previously:

 

In my personal experience, these phenomenons were very real, and thus genuine (sincere), at the times I was experiencing them. I did not wake up in the morning and say, "gee, I think I'm going to make everyone think I'm really spiritual today by undergoing an exorcism and speaking in tongues." That would be phony-not genuine. The word genuine can be applied to a person's matter of intent, even if their intentions are based on fantasy, as mine were.

 

They were genuinely non-supernatural experiences.

 

Regards,

 

Johnny Smith

 

Johnny, I think we're at least for the most part, rowing our boats in the same direction here. Handshake offered, friend. Be well, good life, prosperity to you, and to your household.

 

Piprus

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Just ask yourself, which is more likely to be true: supernatural beings exist and can make us do things against our will, or we have incredibly powerful brains that can play tricks on us? :shrug:

 

Well put.

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