None Ex-Christians to Christians

[thomas]

The Word of God cannot reach someone who does not believe the Word of God is from God because they don't believe that there is a God to begin with.

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But even if you think there is a god, you do not have to believe in the bible (or in Jesus or whatever we are talking about here) as his word.

[zfunkman]

Just to clarify....... I know that you don’t believe the Word of God is true. I am simply giving a proper understanding of what the *Word* refers to from a Christian perspective.

 

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Correction TAP,

We don't believe the bible is the "word of God". I'm not sure if there is a god or not. But, if there is, then there has not yet been a book written on him/her/it and any exisiting book is pure blasphemy.

[zfunkman]

Lacking understanding doesn’t make it any less true. 

Tap

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Maybe its YOU who is lacking understanding in Reality.

[Totallyatpeace]

But even if you think there is a god, you do not have to believe in the bible (or in Jesus or whatever we are talking about here) as his word.

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Absolutely.

 

I was talking from the Christian, Bible-believing perspective.

[Totallyatpeace]

Maybe its YOU who is lacking understanding in Reality.

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There is a thread here somewhere where I actually admitted that. None of us will know for sure until we take our last breath.

 

I follow what I believe is right.

 

I could be wrong.

 

So could you.

[thomas]

Absolutely.

 

I was talking from the Christian, Bible-believing perspective.

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But why embrace the the CHristian Bible-believing perspective? Are there any good reasons for it?

[thomas]

There is a thread here somewhere where I actually admitted that. None of us will know for sure until we take our last breath.

 

I follow what I believe is right.

 

I could be wrong.

 

So could you.

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If you could be wrong, why do you keep your faith? Wouldn't weak atheist then be a more resonable option for you?

[Totallyatpeace]

If you could be wrong, why do you keep your faith? Wouldn't weak atheist then be a more resonable option for you?

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I said I could be wrong. I don't believe I am.

[thomas]

I said I could be wrong. I don't believe I am.

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What reasons do you have to believe the way you do?

[Ouroboros]

All you Christians here who are trying to prove something....why are you using your bible to prove things?  Even if the bible was beautiful, filled with bunnies and happiness and flowers and sunshine instead of death, violence, and irrational emotional responses, what makes you think that we should accept what it has to say? 

 

 

But … but … it does contain bunnies:

 

Deuteronomy 14:7 - Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.

 

And we all know, by scientific proof (Bible Thumping Methodology) that they chew the cud. (Maybe it's that tobacco kind?)

 

The Bible says so and we believe so! NOT!

[quicksand]

actually someone else mentioned "the word" in the sense of arguing terminology.  The truth of it is...while christians may believe jesus is "the word" MANY christians believe in the bible because they say the bible is the word of god.  My post was just a smartass post.

So was mine. I believe the word of Dionysus in The Bacchae by Euripides.

 

If the word is "the logos" the unifying principle of the universe and all things, then it must be governed by nature. Where nature shows that things like 1+1+1 = 1 is impossible (alternatively, 0.333 + 0.333 + 0.333 = (just about) 1) then that "word" is something less than supernatural and not the God of the Bible that the Bible sez it is.

[zfunkman]

There is a thread here somewhere where I actually admitted that. None of us will know for sure until we take our last breath.

 

I follow what I believe is right.

 

I could be wrong.

 

So could you.

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No, I can't be wrong because I have admitted that "I Don't know". I am the one being truthful. I am yet to be convinced of any written book to be the "word of god".

[Ouroboros]

There is a thread here somewhere where I actually admitted that. None of us will know for sure until we take our last breath.

 

I follow what I believe is right.

 

I could be wrong.

 

So could you.

 

Which is not denial, but just agnostic. Agnostic = we can't know

[Totallyatpeace]

Which is not denial, but just agnostic. Agnostic = we can't know

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Wait right there. Saying that there isn't anybody who absolutely, without a doubt knows for sure.....does not in any way make me an Agnostic.

 

I believe that Jesus is who He says He was. This is what I believe.

 

I am a Christian......not an Agnostic.

[Ouroboros]

Wait right there. Saying that there isn't anybody who absolutely, without a doubt knows for sure.....does not in any way make me an Agnostic.

 

I believe that Jesus is who He says He was.  This is what I believe.

 

I am a Christian......not an Agnostic.

 

Ok, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just checking where you are on the scale. I respect any belief you have.

 

But you said you're not sure if there is a heaven? Or did I get that wrong? Isn't that a foundation for your faith that there is a heaven? If there isn't, you still would believe in Jesus?

[Totallyatpeace]

Ok, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just checking where you are on the scale. I respect any belief you have.

 

But you said you're not sure if there is a heaven? Or did I get that wrong? Isn't that a foundation for your faith that there is a heaven? If there isn't, you still would believe in Jesus?

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Hi, Hansolo.

 

I didn't feel you were giving me a hard time at all. I was just clarifying.

 

I do believe there is a heaven. I believe in exactly what the Bible says but it is my choice whether I believe or not. I guess what I'm trying to say is that my Buddhist friend believes he is on the right path and my friend who practices Wicca believes he is on the right path. I've been a Christian for many years but at one point I did walk away from my faith and stayed away for over a year. I chose to come back to what I have always known for many reasons. (different thread)

 

But I would be less than honest to say that I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity is the one True way, anymore than my Wicca and Buudhist friends can prove their faith. I believe the evidence is there for Christianity and also I can feel it within my heart. (different thread, also)

 

Don't think for one minute that my mind has been closed. I am seeking to better understand my own faith and other faiths every single day.

[Guest Euthyphro]

So what you are saying TAP is you believe but you can not prove it. The holy spirit proves it if its what God wants?

[Totallyatpeace]

So what you are saying TAP is you believe but you can not prove it. The holy spirit proves it if its what God wants?

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If I were to show you my evidence it would make no difference because my evidence comes from personal experience and struggle and also from the Word of God.............. which takes this conversation back to it's beginning.

 

Why would an Atheist even consider the Word of God to be evidence?

[Ouroboros]

Hi, Hansolo.

 

I didn't feel you were giving me a hard time at all. I was just clarifying.

 

I do believe there is a heaven. I believe in exactly what the Bible says but it is my choice whether I believe or not.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that my Buddhist friend believes he is on the right path and my friend who practices Wicca believes he is on the right path. I've been a Christian for many years but at one point I did walk away from my faith and stayed away for over a year. I chose to come back to what I have always known for many reasons. (different thread)

 

But I would be less than honest to say that I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity is the one True way, anymore than my Wicca and Buudhist friends can prove their faith. I believe the evidence is there for Christianity and also I can feel it within my heart. (different thread, also)

 

Don't think for one minute that my mind has been closed. I am seeking to better  understand my own faith and other faiths every single day.

 

I think you’re doing exactly the right thing. My belief is more to the agnostic/atheist, in the sense, I don’t know, and I don’t think we can know, but currently I don’t believe, but I hope that there is an afterlife.

 

They way you’re approaching it is very similar what I did for a time. I talked a lot to a guy from India, with the all so common name Kumar. We discussed almost everyday, and he didn’t force any thought, but kept on challenging my established opinions. It was good, because I had to really think through so I knew when I believed something; it was because I’ve made the decision to believe it. And you’re doing the same thing, when you reached the end of arguments and reason, the only thing left is faith. And that’s the way it should be.

[Guest Euthyphro]

I would have more faith in your personal experience of "Something" but I would not consider the bible in the equation.

 

Be'ins the bible is inconsistent.

[Totallyatpeace]

when you reached the end of arguments and reason, the only thing left is faith. And that’s the way it should be.

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Yes.

[thomas]

..because my evidence comes from personal experience and struggle and also from the Word of God

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Did your personal experience give you evidence, that the bible is true?

[Totallyatpeace]

Did your personal experience give you evidence, that the bible is true?

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My personal experience agreed with what the Bible already said. It confirmed it in my mind.

 

 

Tap

 

 

 

Going back to work now. Talk later.

[thomas]

My personal experience agreed with what the Bible already said. It confirmed it in my mind.

Tap

Going back to work now. Talk later.

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But isn't it so, that we interpret our own experiences? Some aspects get a lot of our attention, while we may tend to ignore other aspects of what we have been through.

 

I think it is so, and therefore we may tend to interpret our own experiences in the light of the bible, so we give most attention to the things, that seem to support the bible. And therefore, as I see it, a more systematic approach for evaluating the truths of the bible would be appropriate.

[Alice]

I think this all shows that there is generally a combination of heart and head stuff in both the decision to believe a certain faith - and the decision not to.

 

I think I would be kidding myself if I said all my doubts had been arrived at through reason alone. I think that emotion and reason are inextricably linked so that 'reasonable' arguments for or against - won't make a difference on their own - either way - just as emotional plea's have limited success either way as well.