bluewizard Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Have any of you got into any left hand path religions? I've been getting interested in Wicca, LaVeyan Satanism, and Jewish Mysticism(Kabbalah type stuff). I like the rituals and philosophies of all 3 though I dsiagree with some Wiccan's beliefs in gods and goddesses though some are atheists/agnostics like myself. All LaVeyan Satanists are either agnostivs or atheists basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think Wiccans and genuine Kabbalists would be pretty insulted if you called their religions a "left-hand path"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think Wiccans and genuine Kabbalists would be pretty insulted if you called their religions a "left-hand path"...... What does left-hand path mean? Why is it a negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 "Left-hand path" usually is meant to describe what is commonly known as "the occult"; i.e., "black magic" as opposed to "white magic". A phrase with the same implications would be "Dark Side". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 "Left hand", AFAIK, refers to the bad-guys subset of the occult rather than to the occult as a whole. When I was doing Golden Dawn workings some 25 years ago, my reference materials were constantly warning me away from the left-hand path. Thanks to having read one too many epic fantasy novel, and thanks to all those late-night D&D games, I now see three rather than two paths. Good, neutral, evil. (Or in the vernacular I use most often, white, red and black robes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 To me, finding a new religion is like switching deck chairs on the Titanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Left-Hand Path/Right-Hand Path. Basically, RHP religions are usually about serving a god(s)' will, de-emphasis on the self and the ego, moral codes and adherence to them, etc. LHP is more about the self, individualism, looking at any gods with an open mind or being open to considering them only metaphors instead of actual beings, etc. The lines can blur, and many religions seem to mix bits of the two, like Asatru. I have a lot of respect for LaVey's Satanism. The religious aspects of it are rather silly at times, but even then his underlying premise (that all ritual is just a tool to inspire the magician, since magic comes from within) is interesting. The ethics of Satanism are also very refreshing, and in line with the ethics of any sane human being. Wicca I'm not too crazy over. I'd be kinder towards it if it didn't pretend to be an ancient tradition when it didn't exist before the 1950s To me, finding a new religion is like switching deck chairs on the Titanic. Just because you don't like religion, don't make snide remarks to people who do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 That wasn't snide. Me saying 'I think religion and anyone who believes in it are fucking stupid' would be snide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Nah, it was pretty snide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I've read some of La Vey's stuff. I was also quite interested in chaos magic, although all the practitioners of Chaos magic I've met say that it is not left hand path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Right, comparing choosing a different religion (as opposed to choosing Atheism, by implication) to choosing a different seat on a sinking ship isn't snide at all I haven't met any chaos magick types, though it is very LHP. There is a stigma, I think, associated with the LHP label, which we can thank Xianity and many fluffy religious groups for. There's nothing wrong with it - it's refreshingly practical. Any sane religion has to put some emphasis on personal betterment and enjoyment of being human somewhere. Otherwise, it's all "live for the next life" ascetic bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Have any of you got into any left hand path religions? I've been getting interested in Wicca, LaVeyan Satanism, and Jewish Mysticism(Kabbalah type stuff). I like the rituals and philosophies of all 3 though I dsiagree with some Wiccan's beliefs in gods and goddesses though some are atheists/agnostics like myself. All LaVeyan Satanists are either agnostivs or atheists basically. I've tried Wicca, LaVeyan Satanism, and a few other paths (I don't consider them left hand). If nothing else, they gave me some very good insights into what I truely believed, and helped me on my own path. To me, finding a new religion is like switching deck chairs on the Titanic. Sounds exactly like something a christian told me a long time ago when I was seriously considering athiesm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I Read TSB in October 1989 and it changed my life! I didn't "become a Satanist", I saw it more like an expose of religion(s). Others objected to my reading it, some people still will call me things like "devilman" or other not so nice names. The chapter on curses freed me from some words cast upon me in 1981, I was promoted 2 months later, I met someone 2 years later that changed my life path, and 2 years after that, another. Was the best book I Read through '89. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaura Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think that if you take the "tradiitional" view of LHP versus RHP you would end up putting Wicca, Asatru, Druids, etc on the LHP and LaVeyan Satanism on the RHP. However, Varokhar's definition is pretty interesting. Mind, being a southpaw by genetics myself, I don't pay much heed either way. I agree that the Wiccans who believe that Wicca has descended from an unbroken tradition are naive. But I do think the very basic core thoughts are ancient, and it perhaps this very bit of truth that has accounted for its explosion. I do not consider myself Wiccan per se any more, but more generally Pagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorena Rodriguez Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I Read TSB in October 1989 and it changed my life! I didn't "become a Satanist", I saw it more like an expose of religion(s). Others objected to my reading it, some people still will call me things like "devilman" or other not so nice names. The chapter on curses freed me from some words cast upon me in 1981, I was promoted 2 months later, I met someone 2 years later that changed my life path, and 2 years after that, another. Was the best book I Read through '89. Pardon my ignorance. What is the TSB? How do you know if you've been cursed? txs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Pardon my ignorance. What is the TSB? How do you know if you've been cursed? txs. TSB.. The Anton LaVey book called The Satanic Bible. TSB Well, someone tells you they've cursed you and some day when you least expect it, Expect it. LOL. When I read the part about curses, I felt a very strange electrical feeling/sensation release from me and float away. I can still recall that moment. 10/17/1989 I believe.. around 8pm or so... never felt anything like that before, nor since. Life changed from that moment on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think that if you take the "tradiitional" view of LHP versus RHP you would end up putting Wicca, Asatru, Druids, etc on the LHP and LaVeyan Satanism on the RHP. How in the blue hell do you figure that? I agree that the Wiccans who believe that Wicca has descended from an unbroken tradition are naive. But I do think the very basic core thoughts are ancient, and it perhaps this very bit of truth that has accounted for its explosion. The basic core thoughts are "ancient" only because they were stolen from other religions. Like the Wiccan worship of Isis - what a load of bullshit. Isis is a hell of a lot older than Wicca, yet Wiccans act as if she is theirs to begin with. To me, that's very disrespectful towards the Egyptian Heathens and those who follow that path today. I'd usually say "borrowed" but most shopping-mall Wiccans act as if they had ancient kindred who believed just as they do and invented those "basic core thoughts." It's the inherent dishonesty about Wicca that bothers me and turns me off to it; if they were just honest about their religion being no older than the 1950s I don't think I'd be half as negative towards it. I'd much rather people be Wiccan than Xian, but it's not high on my list of respectable paths. I Read TSB in October 1989 and it changed my life! I didn't "become a Satanist", I saw it more like an expose of religion(s). I agree I didn't become a Satanist ever, but found the basic concepts LaVey laid out to be very refreshing, and very helpful in urging my turn from the clutches of Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I haven't met any chaos magick types, though it is very LHP. Nah, you can go either way in Chaos Magick, or even try to find some way of reconciling the two. The fact that both work and are perfectly valid for chaos magicians is a matter of some emphasis. Dunno about druids, but the sense I get is that Asatru doesn't fit quite perfectly into the RHP/LHP dichotomy. It's perhaps closer to the RHP side, but it's not entirely there the way Christianity and Buddhism are. On the subject of Wicca... heheh. About half the pagans on campus at my university that I know of don't really like Wicca. The other half are Wiccan. Shouldn't be too hard to guess which of those two I fit into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Not hard at all, Ken Good point; Chaos Magick emphasizes their own independence, if I am not mistaken. Though this really puts them into the LHP camp, IMO. Never a bad thing, of course. I don't think any pre-xian indigenous folkway can be placed in either the LHP or the RHP box. Kind of like political views, I believe our Ancestors' ways were a mixture of both sorts of paths. Their beliefs were LHP or RHP, or what today would fit into those boxes. Asatru is definitely a healthy blend of both, a belief in many gods and an ethical code, but also emphasis on the individual (and the family/clan/tribe) and on betterment of those things, as well as ultimately being open to various interpretations of the Gods and such. Most pre-xian beliefs were very open-ended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaura Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Varokhar, to reply in a quick fashion as I do not have much time... I put most Satanic paths as traditionally RHP since it would be difficult to reconcile most Satanists as being "in the Light". I can't say I've met huge numbers of the LaVey sort but they do seem to be neutral at best. As for Wicca borrowing or stealing from other religions... I agree that "Isian Wicca" is a load. I have been to a Khemetic ritual--- very different indeeed... for starters, things are done in a SQUARE! I understand that historical aspects are very important to you Asatruar types, and so I do see your frustration. Lots of Druids would be thinking much the same as you... "but its not accurate!" basically. I think I've come to see Wicca as a springboard, an easy way for people to get comfortable with a Pagan worldview. I think I'm also seeing a lot of veteran Wiccans who are quite comfortable with Wicca being essentially a modern religion with some old ideas. Some see it as a new way of thinking in the new era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 If Wiccans are just honest about their religion being a "new tradition" then I'd be kinder towards them. Pity, most still seem to be caught up in their arrogant fantasies about it being historical, but that'll change over time, I think. It can be a good springboard, and for that I'm glad - so long as people get off the springboard eventually instead of bounce over and over for nothing. If you find it hard to reconcile most Satanists as being "in the Light" then that would make them LHP - the self-focused ones unconcerned with placating or honoring deities as much as just following a philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorena Rodriguez Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 TSB.. The Anton LaVey book called The Satanic Bible. TSB Well, someone tells you they've cursed you and some day when you least expect it, Expect it. LOL. When I read the part about curses, I felt a very strange electrical feeling/sensation release from me and float away. I can still recall that moment. 10/17/1989 I believe.. around 8pm or so... never felt anything like that before, nor since. Life changed from that moment on. Thanks, MQTA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 basically. I think I've come to see Wicca as a springboard, an easy way for people to get comfortable with a Pagan worldview. I think I'm also seeing a lot of veteran Wiccans who are quite comfortable with Wicca being essentially a modern religion with some old ideas. Some see it as a new way of thinking in the new era. Wicca doesn't quite have a pure pagan worldview. It's more of a synthesis of modern ideas with some ancient themes and trappings. I don't have a problem with people who follow it with the full knowledge that it's a pretty new religion. It's not for me, of course. I dislike the eclecticism that even more traditional forms of Wicca have. If Wiccans are just honest about their religion being a "new tradition" then I'd be kinder towards them. Pity, most still seem to be caught up in their arrogant fantasies about it being historical, but that'll change over time, I think. A lot of the ones I've run into are perfectly comfortable with the newness of Wicca. Which is a good thing. I'd love to see it become more mainstream, too, as long as it doesn't get too dogmatic as it does so. Couldn't hurt the growth of Asatru and other pagan reconstruction movements. (I have a lot more respect for any of the recon religions. They strike me as a lot more serious.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 I was reading up on Wicca yesterday and found on one website that astral projection as well as spells are a part of Wicca(I knew about the spells), I dont wantr to pray to a God or Goddess in Wicca though I'd rather they be a metaphor for nature. Explanations for Wicca from various sources can be confusing because some are saying their gods and godesses they worship are real and others refer to them as metaphors which makes sense as I'm not going down the path of believing in any living deities again which is why I'm not getting into Asatru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I'd be careful with the terms LHP and RHP, were I you (and trust me, Wicca definately is not considered LHP), and I'd probably do a bit more research into just what is what. Misusing those terms can often be a good way to start a fight (even more so when fluff-bunnies are around). I don't put much stock in the left or right hand path designation. Really, I've only seen it used to go "Oh! We're a RHP group and don't do that satan-worshipy stuff/eat babies/blood sacrifice/kill your cat/choke chickens/etc." or to scare people with the whole "look at me and my bad-ass left-hand-path, Hail, Satan!/Nema reve dna reve rof, yrolg eht dna.../etc." In other words: most of it is pointless dick-waving in my opinion. Edit: And if you haven't guessed, my own religious-hack is both LHP and RHP, and niether at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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