HadouKen24 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 In other words: most of it is pointless dick-waving in my opinion. That's how a lot of people treat it. I'm convinced that most of them are just poseurs. RHP and LHP take on significance when you treat either path seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Explanations for Wicca from various sources can be confusing because some are saying their gods and godesses they worship are real and others refer to them as metaphors which makes sense as I'm not going down the path of believing in any living deities again which is why I'm not getting into Asatru. Actually, many Asatruar regard the Gods as only metaphors, and care more for the ethics and lifestyle of the religion. Not all demand the acceptance of the Gods as literal beings. Do be careful to not dismiss something before you properly understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 OK, that's an example of the right hand path, right? Or the right-hand method? RHM - one of my favorites, honed over long years of private study and practice FYI: Anton Szandor LaVey, born Howard Levy, was a charlatan, a wife-beater, a pet-abuser, and a plagiarist. His "work" is an amalgam of plagiarism from the actual work of both Aleister Crowley and Ayn Rand. He wrote TSB as a joke, a bet with friends, and a desparate attempt at getting some money from Avon Books. His last days were pitiful and wretched. That's a guy you want to listen to? I don't know about Rand and Crowley, but LaVey ripped off "Might is Right" terribly. Total plagarism. I find the Satanic Bible to be good, even if plagarized. But not so good as to define my overall worldview. I perhaps should've chimed in with my evaluation of LaVeyan Satanism, that it usually attracts egomaniacs. Try going to any LaVeyan Satanism forum sometime. Puts fundy Xians to shame with the self-righteousness Go for the gusto, instead. Be your own master. That's my opinion and my advice to you all. Indeed - take the spirit, but do not be a drone or a clone. No quicker path back to destruction than to trade Xianity for another bad habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Explanations for Wicca from various sources can be confusing because some are saying their gods and godesses they worship are real and others refer to them as metaphors which makes sense as I'm not going down the path of believing in any living deities again which is why I'm not getting into Asatru. Actually, many Asatruar regard the Gods as only metaphors, and care more for the ethics and lifestyle of the religion. Not all demand the acceptance of the Gods as literal beings. Do be careful to not dismiss something before you properly understand it. My mistake. I'll look i to Asatru as well though I'm able to talk to some wiccans online and I get to leanr more about it that way. The rituals interest me, not just the magick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 My mistake. I'll look i to Asatru as well though I'm able to talk to some wiccans online and I get to leanr more about it that way. The rituals interest me, not just the magick. Good Keep an open mind and you won't go wrong. Even if I were an Atheist, I'd still be an Odinist/Asatruar, if only in the metaphorical sense. There'd still be a world of worth to it, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I'm not familiar with "Might Is Right" - thanks for the tip. The only reason I kept the Satanic Bible and not Might is Right was that LaVey wrote his book better than Ragnar Redbeard wrote his. TSB is a more fun, engaging read. But huge chunks were ripped right out of MiR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Nah, it was pretty snide... Yeah, well, whatever. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Nah, it was pretty snide... Yeah, well, whatever. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. Nah you weren't being snide JP and I got your meaning, I wouldn't want to switch religions either, I am done with religion, it doesn't matter what hat it comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 But since this thread is about different religious paths, what makes anyone think the opinions of the non-religious are relevant here? It's like bringing up power tools or toothpaste. Some people just have to stick their two cents in everywhere they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 But since this thread is about different religious paths, what makes anyone think the opinions of the non-religious are relevant here? It's like bringing up power tools or toothpaste. Some people just have to stick their two cents in everywhere they go. And some people need to stop being so sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Nothing to do with sensitivity, just respect - and relevance. If you can't respect that other folks have religious views which aren't Atheistic, then have the decency to butt out. Simple, no? Or else prove your points are somehow relevant to the matter at hand. Like I've always said, some Atheists can be just as ignorant as any fundy Xian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nothing to do with sensitivity, just respect - and relevance. If you can't respect that other folks have religious views which aren't Atheistic, then have the decency to butt out. Simple, no? Or else prove your points are somehow relevant to the matter at hand. Like I've always said, some Atheists can be just as ignorant as any fundy Xian. Don't compare me with a fundy Christian because of some stupid comment I made that you blew up. And I don't think I need to prove how my response was related to the matter at hand, as it was pretty self-explanatory. What was asked was, "Have any of you got into any left hand path religions?" So only people with a "yes" answer are allowed to respond? Well that should have been stated at the very beginning, so don't get all bent out of shape when someone responds with a "no" and maybe embellishes on it a bit. Like I've always said, some theists have the same persecution complex as fundy Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Bent out of shape? If I were getting like that, I'd have went on for five or six paragraphs, probably laced with emotionalism and appeals to every mod to intervene. Come on, now. Persecution complex? Okey dokey, smokey. Oh, that's right - Atheists can whine about being disrespected all they want, but heaven forbid a theist think a little respect ought to be shown to those who choose to have religious views. Silly me I think I'll just stop wasting keystrokes and wait for some on-topic discussion to respond to. Seems a better use of time than carping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Bent out of shape? If I were getting like that, I'd have went on for five or six paragraphs, probably laced with emotionalism and appeals to every mod to intervene. Come on, now. Persecution complex? Okey dokey, smokey. Oh, that's right - Atheists can whine about being disrespected all they want, but heaven forbid a theist think a little respect ought to be shown to those who choose to have religious views. Silly me Who is whining about being disrespected besides you? I made a comment that you thought was snide. I could apologize for making the comment and hurting everyone's feelings but I'm not going to. It was just a comment and people need to get off their high horse and not get upset when someone says something that they don't agree with, especially when it's piddly shit like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I just want to say, not to butt in because I hate doing that and it just causes more problems, but I do want to say.... I hope exc does not become like christian forums, in my xian days I frequented them and they became nasty, nasty places where people bickered over small things and opinions and it wasn't relevant in the big picture. Even the mods were horrible. Why fight over small differences? In fact, I rarely visited forums until I came to exc and somehow this place became a "home" on the net, even now I rarely visit other forums, anyway I know I sound like a dork but just hope this place doesn't became nasty and bitter, because I'd hate to leave it and the people here. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Sounds exactly like something a christian told me a long time ago when I was seriously considering athiesm. Atheism is not something that one seriously considers. It is not a path or a religion. It's what happens when you give up your belief(s) in god(s). Whaaaat? This site is FULL of people who questioned themselves seriously and wondered if they were "really" atheists. Devout christians don't just wake up and go "I'm not going to believe in God today," and poof, it all just goes away. No, I had to face myself through all the conditioning and consider seriously if I believed in anything at all and there are tons of testimony stories here about people who did the same exact thing. That's what I meant by considering atheism. Turns out I that I still did believe in God, just not in christianity. But it didn't stop one self righteous jerk from telling me that picking anything else other than christanity was like staying on the Titanic when I was being offered a seat on a lifeboat. Atheism is not a belief system but it's still a personal belief. And any belief wanked as gospel all starts to sound alike no matter who it comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I won't be posting any more in this thread after this. I don't want to make any enemies on ExC. I don't come here to bicker or pick fights with the other members. I'm not really myself right now and my posts are reflecting that. I'm still not going to apologize for the comment that I made because I maintain that I didn't do anything wrong, but I'm going to try and post more mellow things and not make people mad. I don't want to be on anyone's ignore list. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 JP's first post here was ill-considered and a bit rude, but let's not blow it out of proportion here. It's not really a big deal. Though I will say that it would be nice if some of the more atheistic Ex-Cers would tone down the rhetoric. I mean, we already know that you reject all religious thought. That's why you call yourselves atheists. There's no need to remind people of that in every single thread, much less liken their deeply held beliefs and values to a sinking ship. Let's try to remember that this is supposed to be a place where ex-Christians can get some support. Strong anti-religious rhetoric would be perfectly appropriate, say, at the Internet Infidels forum, but not here. There's no need to pussyfoot around the subject of religion, of course. just be respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 JP's first post here was ill-considered and a bit rude, but let's not blow it out of proportion here. It's not really a big deal. Though I will say that it would be nice if some of the more atheistic Ex-Cers would tone down the rhetoric. I mean, we already know that you reject all religious thought. That's why you call yourselves atheists. There's no need to remind people of that in every single thread, much less liken their deeply held beliefs and values to a sinking ship. Let's try to remember that this is supposed to be a place where ex-Christians can get some support. Strong anti-religious rhetoric would be perfectly appropriate, say, at the Internet Infidels forum, but not here. There's no need to pussyfoot around the subject of religion, of course. just be respectful. Ditto that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 JP's first post here was ill-considered and a bit rude, but let's not blow it out of proportion here. It's not really a big deal. Though I will say that it would be nice if some of the more atheistic Ex-Cers would tone down the rhetoric. I mean, we already know that you reject all religious thought. That's why you call yourselves atheists. There's no need to remind people of that in every single thread, much less liken their deeply held beliefs and values to a sinking ship. Let's try to remember that this is supposed to be a place where ex-Christians can get some support. Strong anti-religious rhetoric would be perfectly appropriate, say, at the Internet Infidels forum, but not here. There's no need to pussyfoot around the subject of religion, of course. just be respectful. Ditto that. Double Ditto that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I didn't think that JP was rude at all, in fact he just said his opinion. Its unfortunate that people are taking things way too personally. I don't know what's going on around here anymore, things used to be cool and now they're not. oh and I hear you about the cliques and everything, this is just like high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I don't want cliques or clubs. (I wouldn't call it like high school, myself, though. More like the US government... * insert subtle political jab here *) That's why I said what I did. The fact is that there's a lot of mockery of religion in general on this site, not just Christianity. I don't want to make it out to be worse than it is. Most of the time it's not really a problem. I don't think JP's post was really a problem, in itself. Nonetheless, it does happen, and it does occasionally cause issues. I just think it would be nice if people would remember that a lot of the time, newcomers to this site are in a very emotionally vulnerable state. Hell, Christianity has already made them feel like worthless sinners. No need to pile on to that if they find themselves resonating with some other religion instead. Let's not drive people away who need support in leaving Christianity. An interesting side note, by the way. I've noticed that of the people here who leave Christianity but retain other religious beliefs, it's generally a generic belief in God coupled with some ethical philosophy, or some brand of paganism. Based on my own experience, I've hypothesized that paganism is a lot closer to human nature than Christianity is. I think it puts fewer kinks in the soul. (Feel free to interpret the word "soul" there as broadly as you like.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Even if I were an Atheist, I'd still be an Odinist/Asatruar, if only in the metaphorical sense. There'd still be a world of worth to it, for me. Heh, speaking as one such... 'Course, I don't restrict it to just Asatru. I can't think of any ancient cultural mythology that doesn't fascinate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Hadouken makes a great point. IMO. In fact I think a lot of people diss religion and spirituality without even having any real knowledge of it outside of Christianity. If they do know anything of the non-Christian spiritual world, then all the good to them. But if not then I thank Athena for granting me the wisdom to inform myself and be more open-minded. Fundies come in all shades and colors. The problem is that nobody ever thinks they're a fundy, because "fundy" means "crazy-eyed tiny-minded purposefully ignorant self-righteous bastard", and they believe that that doesn't apply to them - they're not "fundy", they're merely "right", and it's everyone else's problem for not agreeing with them and "seeing the light". And atheists are as totally capable of that as the most die-hard Christian or Muslim. There's been more than one person who has posted on this board who has advocated a position of denying believers in the spiritual/supernatural the rights to raise children, vote, or hold office. How is that different from Saudi clerics denying women the right to participate in government, due to their "emotionality" and "smaller intellect"? How is that not fundamentalism? How is that not dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 There's been more than one person who has posted on this board who has advocated a position of denying believers in the spiritual/supernatural the rights to raise children, vote, or hold office. How is that different from Saudi clerics denying women the right to participate in government, due to their "emotionality" and "smaller intellect"? How is that not fundamentalism? How is that not dangerous? Exactly, Sage. And some who liken anyone who believes in any sort of a religion to mental patients. And they love to think how tolerant and open they are Heh, speaking as one such... 'Course, I don't restrict it to just Asatru. I can't think of any ancient cultural mythology that doesn't fascinate me. Ditto that, woody (I said "woody" again). There's a certain magic to studying the ancient world, imperfect though it may be. There's always much of worth buried in the dust of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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