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InspectoGeneral

Is It Really Possible To Be An Ex-christian?

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Define Christian.

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Posted by Amanda-

 

You would be very fortunate for this site to call you family, and a little more respect could still allow that to happen.

 

Yet doesn't seem to be panning out that way.

 

you're making that difficult for yourself...

 

 

I smell a rat, a senior member rat........

 

I think we need to cut you up in little sawdust bits and eat you up

 

:grin:

 

 

 

 

oh and your attempts at trolling are terrible.

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I know you've got alot going on Inspecto, but I'd really like to hear how you can tell a "true" christian from a "religious person" this side of the grave...

 

It didn't seem like anyone wanted my opinion on this matter. And I am sure my answer won't be original.

 

The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion. If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

 

For those who call me arrogant because I 'know' some things. Isn't the real arrogance from those who say that because they don't know something that noone else can know it either?

 

 

See. I can be considerate. And I don't know why I have the edit button. I try to watch my spelling any way. It doesn't matter to me though.

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where does it say in the bible that god/jesus want a relationship with human beings?

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According to the Scriptures, once a person becomes a Christian, they will always be a Christian.

 

In that case I guess we are all still Christians here then.

 

IG, why don't you post a list of things you believe makes a true Christian and then we can all check them off and see which ones we failed on. (And hopefully you can tick all of them off too).

 

The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion. If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

 

I had a personal relationship with Jesus. There were many times I thought he was telling me stuff. And I used to talk to him all the time, so I reckon I was a pretty good friend. But he ignored me 99% of the time. I still think God exists, but I don't think he's interested in us on a personal level.

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The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion.

So, when a so called "Christian" becomes a True Christian, moving from a religion to a relationship, does this mean they loose their tax exempt status as it's no longer qualifies a religion and its just a personal relationship? Why should a friendship with Jesus give me any tax advantages over my friendship with my buddy Brian or his wife Ann? Just curious.

 

If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

Good question. No, but we're talking physical, versus supernatural friends here. But then at the same time, if I terminate that friendship, it would be irresponsible of you to say I was "never really his friend". That's how relationships go sometimes.

 

Now... when it comes to Jesus, it is not a relationship with a person, it's a relationship with a Belief, no matter how you slice it. Jesus does not physically exist and can only be accessed via faith without any real 2-way communication, so you cannot try to make this silly equation of human relationships with that of a relationship with a religious belief in a supernatural ghost-being.

 

For those who call me arrogant because I 'know' some things. Isn't the real arrogance from those who say that because they don't know something that noone else can know it either?

Arrogance is saying you know something which cannot be corroborated in any way except through the proper interpretation of emotions, and that it is the absolute truth and if people don't believe just like you do, they're all wrong! That is what is both arrogant and a bit dumb. Do you not do this?

 

Yes, I would agree that it would also be arrogant for someone to say because they don't know a thing, it is not possible for others to, but who's doing that? Not me. All I will ever say is that you cannot prove God exists so you have no right to say to others they are wrong for not believing the way you do. This takes us back to the paragraph before this one.

 

 

See. I can be considerate.

Then I assume you will respond?

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It didn't seem like anyone wanted my opinion on this matter. And I am sure my answer won't be original.

 

You have to seem to want to do more than presume if people are going to want to listen to your opinion. Plenty of people here are happy to hear your perception of things, are they going to agree, more often than not, no, but that doesn't mean we're so cold & callous that we don't want to hear it & understand why you follow it.

 

 

The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion. If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

 

The difference of what?

Of how you choose to follow your religion?

Of how you choose to alter the religion to your point of view?

Of how a person decides to act towards others?

 

What do you mean specifically?

 

For those who call me arrogant because I 'know' some things. Isn't the real arrogance from those who say that, because they don't know something, that noone else can know it either?

 

Actually that's true ignorance.

 

Real arrogance is presuming you know the truth and anyone who's ideas diverge from yours are just beneath you or don't understand the correct way.

 

See. I can be considerate. And I don't know why I have the edit button. I try to watch my spelling any way. It doesn't matter to me though.

 

I appreciate that you think you're being considerate here. Why do you think that that's what you're doing? Because this post doesn't sound overly considerate towards anyone. Maybe I'm missing it. Sure, it's decent, and fair, but considerate? Is it just because you're not being inflammatory now?

I'm not seeing how you're really being considerate towards anyone here.

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I know you've got alot going on Inspecto, but I'd really like to hear how you can tell a "true" christian from a "religious person" this side of the grave...

 

It didn't seem like anyone wanted my opinion on this matter. And I am sure my answer won't be original.

 

1. The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion. If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

 

For those who call me arrogant because I 'know' some things. Isn't the real arrogance from those who say that because they don't know something that noone else can know it either?

 

 

See. I can be considerate. And I don't know why I have the edit button. I try to watch my spelling any way. It doesn't matter to me though.

 

If when you say you meet someone and they become a friend, I presume that you mean a physical human. Unless that human dies you cannot say that he doesn't exist, nevertheless, you do not need to remain friends. You analogy doesn't hold because this idea of Jesus is not a physical person. You have no evidence of his existence outside of some fluttery feeling in your gut from time to time.

 

You know some things sure. You know you have a fluttery feeling, but you don't know that your fluttery feeling will be there next week, or will last until you die. I grant that you feel like it will last, and maybe it will. But you will not know that until you die. I felt the feeling the feeling of Christ's presence, but it did not last though I felt it would (maybe it was something I ate.) Now you will say it was not a true feeling like you feel, but you cannot possibly know that -- until you die. Your feeling may be every bit as fake as you will say mine was.

 

You may be surprized, but I agree with you. I was never a Christian, because there is no Christ.

 

What I don't get is your point of being here. Now, I don't mean for you to go away, but rather to explain why you want to instruct us in the niceties of Cavinism. After all it is obvious that we are not of the elect. So your time can't be meant as evangilism, which is something that I can't quite figure from Calvinist anyway. (Maybe Calvinists try to capture the unelected to pay for their fancy churches?) Are you here to gloat over our unelection? Do you want the name of the web site changed?

 

In other words, what the frell is your point?

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"The Scriptures" say a lot of things that don't happen in real life.

 

 

Aren't you saying that you were never one in the first place?

 

 

Actually Inspector, I would like to comment on your Bible verse at the bottom of your profile. I always thought weirdly of the notion that here is Solomon, Biblically the wisest man ever, saying this and Jesus, the Son of God, saying the opposite.

 

Jesus said judge not. How, by Solomons verse, can you proclaim anyone a fool, if Jesus said judge not. I know what your thinking if you know your scripture, yet it says that Jesus was filled without measure with His spirit. We are bestowed with this same spirit, yet its in a certain measure. So, my point is that if your even consider someone a fool, then really your prejudging them, therefore going againist some evident teachings of Christ.

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Maybe because he hasn't been put in the Christian group yet he can edit his posts? I'm not sure what options that group lets you do? Maybe some other Christians can let us know if they can edit or not? Maybe it's a purposeful thing that Christians can't edit? They have to leave what they say up mistakes and all?

 

If he's a regular/ Spoof I'm sure the Mods will find out soon enough....?

 

I can't edit my posts anymore and it is very aggrivating. I havent heard of the Christians not being able to edit posts. I would like my edit button back PLEASE MODS. :vent:

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Arrogance is saying you know something which cannot be corroborated in any way except through the proper interpretation of emotions, and that it is the absolute truth and if people don't believe just like you do, they're all wrong! That is what is both arrogant and a bit dumb. Do you not do this?

 

The flat earth people were ignorant that the earth was a spherical object. They were ignorant. So people that told them the truth were arrogant? To assume that someone else cannot know something because you do not know it is arrogant. If you do know something that someone else doesn't know and you tell them, does that make you arrogant. Only to those who are sure that no one else can know what they themselves do not know.

 

If I know that God exists, then I would be dishonest to say that he doesn't exist or that I do not know that He exists, would I not?

 

Jesus said judge not.

 

Wow, it didn't take long to break out this misuse of Scripture.

 

Who did he say this to? If you think it was a blanket statement, then you are mistaken. It was written to hypocrites. In fact, Jesus said this:

 

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

Evidently, the hypocrite was to cast the mote out of his brothers eye after he removed the beam from his own.

 

Hint: Casting out the mote was judging.

 

 

but rather to explain why you want to instruct us in the niceties of Cavinism.

 

I do not ascribe to this Calvinism you speak of. And I agree, not sure why they would want to evangelize if God had already chosen who would go to heaven or h ell.

 

where does it say in the bible that God/Jesus want a relationship with human beings?

 

Father/son relationship:

 

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

Friends:

 

Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

 

 

The difference of what?

 

Between religion and relationship.

 

Of how you choose to follow your religion?

 

Religion without the relationship is empty, no matter how you follow it.

 

Of how you choose to alter the religion to your point of view?

 

If there is no relationship, then you can alter whatever you want. It is still empty.

 

Of how a person decides to act towards others?

What do you mean specifically?

 

I mean that Jesus is a real person that we can know on a spiritual level just like we know each other on a physical level. Salvation is not a set of doctrines you sign your name to, it is a relationship to a person.

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You just can't win for losing here can you. I could have easily posted a lot of scripture, but then someone would have slammed me for posting a lot of scripture. I have already been informed that the Bible has no place here, even though it is a forum about ex-Christians, of which true Christianity is based on the Bible.( And yes, I realize that most here don't think that the Christianity of today is actually based on the Bible.)

In other words, you don't know the scriptures that back up your original claim. Not only that, you don't even know if such scriptures exist. Not only that but you don't want to know, for fear that it may cause you to question the dogmatic religous world view you have built up around yourself and labelled a "relationship".

 

The fact that you're only too willing to quote scriptures in an attempt to prove other points in this thread nullifies the lame excuse you provided in the quoted paragraph above.

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Arrogance is saying you know something which cannot be corroborated in any way except through the proper interpretation of emotions, and that it is the absolute truth and if people don't believe just like you do, they're all wrong! That is what is both arrogant and a bit dumb. Do you not do this?

 

The flat earth people were ignorant that the earth was a spherical object. They were ignorant. So people that told them the truth were arrogant? To assume that someone else cannot know something because you do not know it is arrogant. If you do know something that someone else doesn't know and you tell them, does that make you arrogant. Only to those who are sure that no one else can know what they themselves do not know.

 

If I know that God exists, then I would be dishonest to say that he doesn't exist or that I do not know that He exists, would I not?

I agree with you IG, but I think you are not separating the physical from the metaphysical. It isn't arrogance if you inform someone of the truth, but you must know the truth first.

 

Lets say that these people did not know for a fact that the earth was round. They were just guessing just as the flat earth people did. They had no facts (empirical) to back up what they were saying. They were just speculating also. In this case, both groups are ignorant (innocently) and arrogant. Then along came the evidence that proved the earth was round. The round earth people just got a lucky break. A fallacy can be true, but it's called a fallacy because of the logic used to approach your conclusion.

 

What others are saying to you, and myself, is that you cannot (at this time) prove the existence of your God anymore than anyone else can that professes a faith in God/s. It's all just speculation. Sure you may get the lucky break and your God is proven to exist, but until then, you are only being arrogant because you have no more empirical information than we do when it comes to the existence of God...do you?

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Arrogance is saying you know something which cannot be corroborated in any way except through the proper interpretation of emotions, and that it is the absolute truth and if people don't believe just like you do, they're all wrong! That is what is both arrogant and a bit dumb. Do you not do this?

 

The flat earth people were ignorant that the earth was a spherical object. They were ignorant. So people that told them the truth were arrogant? To assume that someone else cannot know something because you do not know it is arrogant. If you do know something that someone else doesn't know and you tell them, does that make you arrogant. Only to those who are sure that no one else can know what they themselves do not know.

 

If I know that God exists, then I would be dishonest to say that he doesn't exist or that I do not know that He exists, would I not?

Wow dude, you like totally did not read my post, did you? I answered this very clearly in it.

 

First of all read what I just highligted now in red, and compare this with what I just highlighted from your response. Note my bolding the words "WHICH CANNOT BE CORROBORATED"? You telling me of God, "which cannot be corroborated" and then saying it is fact and I am wrong for not accepting it, is in no way even closely comparable to your anaology. The spherical nature of the earth in fact can be and has been confirmed through testable means. It is not arrogant for me to say that fruitcakes who think the earth is flat are wrong because the facts are undeniable. Your "facts" are not facts at all. No comparission there.

 

Can you stop to re-read my post before and then maybe come up with a better response, if you will try again?

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I won't assume that anyone desires comments unless they ask.

 

Hmm...

 

Funny that...

 

I've got a couple of questions in my response to you in this thread and another.

 

It makes me wonder why you're not answering if you're supposedly so willing to do so.

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The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion. If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

 

Thanks for answering my question. To recap, it was "how can you tell a true christian?"

 

The problem I have with this is that no one knows what's on the inside of another. To say that any of weren't "true christians" would imply that you know we weren't sincere. Believe me, some of us were VERY sincere in our faith.

 

As for the friend analogy, for us, it was like having a friendship and then finding out they didn't exist in the first place. It's a HUGE blow to the psyche when something you held so dear is seen as, essentially, a form of deception.

 

I know you don't see it that way, but if you aren't able to accept that we were truly christians, just like you in many ways, and now aren't, I don't know if we'll truly be able to find a common ground for discussion...

 

IMOHO,

:thanks:

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I've got a couple of questions in my response to you in this thread and another.

 

It makes me wonder why you're not answering if you're supposedly so willing to do so.

 

New Xian, same old tactics, eh?

 

Some things never change :HaHa:

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InsepectoGeneral-

 

According to this verse Christians can and do fall away. Not only that, once they fall away they are unredeemable.

Hebrews chapter 6

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

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I was thinking about that verse for the last couple of days, and couldn't find it.

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InsepectoGeneral-

 

According to this verse Christians can and do fall away. Not only that, once they fall away they are unredeemable.

Hebrews chapter 6

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

 

I have an addendum, and IG, feel free to reply.

 

What if there is no goodness in the word of god, but instead we just deluded ourselves into thinking that it was. In other words, if, once bitten, we realize that the whole thing is a sham and walk away? I pose this as another scenario to you.

 

Anyway, we both know that anything that can be called a god has no love, so quit pretending.

 

Oh, and the search feature is your friend. If you had used this feature, you'd have seen that this statement has hit the boards before, and that the kind of response the poster gets when they cut loose. Then again, you haven't read and understood the Bible, why should we expect you to understand how a search feature works.

 

Thanks for judging our experiences and lives without knowing anything about us. Thank you even more for reminding me of yet another reason to avoid Christianity like the plague. If I do go to hell, remember that at least some of my blood is on your hands.

 

Sleep well.

JBG

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According to the Scriptures, once a person becomes a Christian, they will always be a Christian. A person may be religious, and not be a Christian. A person may be Baptized, and not be a Christian, A person may be a Church member, and not be a Christian.

 

When God saves you, He makes you a New Creature (II Cor 5:17), seals you with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13), makes you His child (Jn 1:12). etc. He becomes your Father, it is a relationship. Without the relationship, it is just dead religion, which is pretty rotten.

 

I propose that those on this board who are not Christians today, never were Christians. In fact, trying to act like a Christian without being one is one of the worst things you can do.

 

 

Note: This is my attempt at reasonable dialogue for any who would like to discuss this topic. I am told there are those here who would. I will check back when possible. So if I don't respond, it is because I am away.(This is for those who would accuse me of avoiding a question or comment)

 

According to the "Scriptures" the Earth is also supported by pilllars, windows exist in the firmament of the sky from which water pours down, a man can live in the stomach of a fish for three days, snakes and donkeys can speak human languages, etc. et al. Afraid your argument only works if a person believes in the validity of your little book of fairy tales. As a counter claim, there are no "True Christians" at all; just a lot of people who tend to prefer fantasy over addressing reality. There are Ex-Christians, Never-been-Christians and Fantasy Prone Christians, but no such thing as "True Christians".

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I am sure that many feel this way. I only know what is real in my life, I can't speak for anyone else, just as you know what is real in your life.

 

 

 

 

with all due respect (not much) this is a load of crap. When you come here saying we were never "really" christians this very much seems as if you ar e speaking for someone else. So which is it? do you think you have a right to speak to the nature of our personal experience or not?

 

 

The difference is on the inside of a person. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not just religion. If I meet someone and they become a friend to me, can I then turn around and say they don't exist?

 

 

 

Yes, I agree completly, this is exactly what I believed as a christian, until I realized that christ was only a projection of my own inner desires and just a mind trick I played on myself.

 

But I belived for 5 years of my life, I totally believed that my "relationship" with christ was the most important thing in the world

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This is all very silly.

 

Of COURSE it is possible to be an ex-Christian. We're here, aren't we? :twitch: What is your problem, InspectoGeneral?

 

A "Christian" is ANYONE who follows "Christ" and His teachings. (Screw all of the religious hair-splitting.) When that someone STOPS following "Christ" and His teachings, they become "EX" or FORMER followers. They even wrote about such people in the bible. It's called apostasy. Falling away. What is so impossible to understand about this? :shrug:

 

I know, I know. Much easier for you to believe that we were NEVER "Christians", as opposed to believing that anyone could once embrace and then leave "Christ". To accept the latter reality puts YOU in jeopardy, doesn't it? If it can happen to US, some of whom were MINISTERS, then it could happen to YOU.

 

Poor human. I can smell your fear a parsec away. :wicked:

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I.G.

 

Troll or Christian or whatever,

 

Here is my answer. Most of what I would say to answer you has already been said. Let me add this for the sake of you or other Christians that may read this thread to see what those like me would say...

 

Yes, there is such a thing as an ex-Christian. I am one. I saw so many years of answered prayers, the love and comfort that Christ gave my family and friends, and yet I still of my own free will walked away, turning my back on my Savior Jesus.

 

I didn't even take the time to figure out where He shat in the wilderness, or what He is saying to me now through the Church. I don't care. Jesus can live forever dancing on the head of a pin for all I care. I know He's real. I know that I'm going to a Devil's Hell for saying this. I don't care. I ask for no excuse nor do I ask for forgiveness. I would rather burn in the Hell that I know to be real than to accept Jesus anymore. I know He's real, I just don't care.

 

Now, is that what you wanted/needed to hear? are you happy now? I'm going to Hell, and you are going to Heaven.

 

If you are a troll, then we shouldn't be feeding you. If you are a Christian, I hope that my answer validates your attempt to endure to the end.

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Ummnn...

 

 

Did I kill the thread or the poor bastard that asked such a stupid question?

 

Fine, I'm not important enough to be either, but still, I have to say; *bump*

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