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Is It Really Possible To Be An Ex-christian?

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I propose that those on this board who are not Christians today, never were Christians. In fact, trying to act like a Christian without being one is one of the worst things you can do.

 

 

What makes born-again believers think they are saved and have a “literal” relationship with an unseen entity that is only based on faith with no amount of knowledge whatsoever?

 

Didn’t it ever occur to the mind of the believer that they might not be saved from anything except just a belief? Christians have been indoctrinated into believing that there is this problem with our personal human nature called sin and the remedy for this sin problem is salvation by accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and that is what will "save" them from spending eternity in hell.

 

Hasn't anybody ever told you how tired and worn out this typical argument really is? That those who deconverted were never Christians?

 

Give me a break. However, you do have a point. You see, I believed I was a Christian according to it's teachings in the good book. But the truth of the matter is, it was nothing more than a fairy tale anyway.

 

In short you're not really a Christian either. You're just falling hook line and sinker for a fairy tale that has no truth to it whatsoever.

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I.G.

 

Troll or Christian or whatever,

 

Here is my answer. Most of what I would say to answer you has already been said. Let me add this for the sake of you or other Christians that may read this thread to see what those like me would say...

 

Yes, there is such a thing as an ex-Christian. I am one. I saw so many years of answered prayers, the love and comfort that Christ gave my family and friends, and yet I still of my own free will walked away, turning my back on my Savior Jesus.

 

I didn't even take the time to figure out where He shat in the wilderness, or what He is saying to me now through the Church. I don't care. Jesus can live forever dancing on the head of a pin for all I care. I know He's real. I know that I'm going to a Devil's Hell for saying this. I don't care. I ask for no excuse nor do I ask for forgiveness. I would rather burn in the Hell that I know to be real than to accept Jesus anymore. I know He's real, I just don't care.

 

Now, is that what you wanted/needed to hear? are you happy now? I'm going to Hell, and you are going to Heaven.

 

If you are a troll, then we shouldn't be feeding you. If you are a Christian, I hope that my answer validates your attempt to endure to the end.

 

 

As I was reading your post I wondered, "Where is he going with this?" Then I got to the end - BRILLIANT! You absolutely nailed it. It was so simple I can't believe I've missed it all these years since I stopped 'believing'. Their entire debate over whether we were true believers is due to FEAR - fear that they too have been deceived and may fall away. If we were never 'true' believers and they 'know' that they are, then they need not fear falling away. Ahhh.... delusional thought can be so comforting.

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The question I'm gonna ask is:

 

Is it really possible to be a rational christian ?

 

I'm really surprised that an absolutist christian could consider possibilities since this is the domain of statistics. Christianity does not deal with 'maybe' it is either right or wrong; there are no bell curves or grey areas :Doh:

 

You don't know it but you are burning in hell just by being here and asking a question :lmao:

 

Through your eyes, the flames of hell are engulfing us and we are damned for eternity :HaHa: .... by the way dinosaurs are from hell :HaHa:

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To say that there are such things as "True Christians" is a far-fetched statement. First of all, to say that you're a "True Christian" would have to mean that you can guarantee yourself. There are no 100% guarantees in life, unless it's the kind where you get your money back from bad shampoo purchases.

 

Any person has the potential to change their decision at any given time, so yeah, no guarantees in the two-worded term "True Christian."

 

Also, an ex-Christian is a person that is no longer a Christian. It's as simple as that. Since the OP has decided to involve the word "relationship," anyone can see that with many relationships, there are ones that go sour and eventually dissolve. How? By not spending time with the person you are in a relationship with or for other reasons such as boredom and the whole nine yards.

 

A Christian is simply a person that follows Christ. What does a Christian do? Obey and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. However, it doesn't mean that a person can't choose whether to continue or discontinue much in the same way a person can quit or continue going to school. In this case, it would be the church.

 

I have begun to understand a lot more now that I'm an ex-Christian. The reason why people never wanted me to leave fellowship was because they were afraid that my relationship with turn sour. Well, it wasn't a relationship that turned sour, it was me breaking out of the delusional shell of demented fantasy.

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Being Christian is just like smoking, it's addictive and hard to quit, but when you do you feel better, and your breath doesn't smell so bad anymore. ;) Anyway, when someone quit smoking, they can for sure claim they used to be smokers. There's no "True" Smoker v "Untrue" Smoker. Every smoker is a smoker. Everyone calling themselves Christian is a Christian. They're all "smoking" the same religion. But now some smoke light, some menthol, some non-filtered Marlboro, but it's the same drug. :) (btw, y'all know I smoke... but not the religious kind)

 

And since I compared religion to alcohol addiction before too, I just end it with this little thought:

First the man had a drink.

Then the drink had the drink.

Then the drink had the man.

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Being Christian is just like smoking, it's addictive and hard to quit, but when you do you feel better, and your breath doesn't smell so bad anymore. ;) Anyway, when someone quit smoking, they can for sure claim they used to be smokers. There's no "True" Smoker v "Untrue" Smoker. Every smoker is a smoker. Everyone calling themselves Christian is a Christian. They smoking the same religion. Now some smoke light, some menthol, some non-filtered Marlboro, but it's the same drug. :) (btw, y'all know I smoke... but not the religious kind)

 

Wow, excellent way to explain that! :grin: I'm definitely using that to explain to people.

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Wow, excellent way to explain that! :grin: I'm definitely using that to explain to people.

Since I smoke pipe and cigar, I know some hard-core pipe-smokers that see the pipe as "their friend"... funny that I thought about that when I saw your comment about "relationship". Christians claim "it is a relationship", and I know these pipe-afficionados saying the same about their pipes. Another strange thing with relationships, they don't always work out. So even if Christianity "is not a religion but a relationship"... still many relationships go bad and end in separation.

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Being Christian is just like smoking, it's addictive and hard to quit, but when you do you feel better, and your breath doesn't smell so bad anymore. ;) Anyway, when someone quit smoking, they can for sure claim they used to be smokers. There's no "True" Smoker v "Untrue" Smoker. Every smoker is a smoker. Everyone calling themselves Christian is a Christian. They're all "smoking" the same religion. But now some smoke light, some menthol, some non-filtered Marlboro, but it's the same drug. :) (btw, y'all know I smoke... but not the religious kind)

 

And since I compared religion to alcohol addiction before too, I just end it with this little thought:

First the man had a drink.

Then the drink had the drink.

Then the drink had the man.

 

That's not true.

 

"Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." Matthew 7:21.

 

"This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me." Matthew 15:8.

 

"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord', and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46.

 

The Bible is clear that just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't make it so.

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The Bible is clear that just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't make it so.

Please tell me, what is a True Christian® is then?

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A Christian is a Christian. They all put on an act nevertheless and judge others out of behaviour, yet also judge people by calling them legalists. Oh yeah, there's also the "No one knows people's hearts except for God" statement. So then, it all comes back to the same question, "How do you know if someone is a TRUE Christian?"

 

:shrug: If people's hearts constantly change within Christianity, there really must be NO TRUE Christian then. Why else would they all continue "sinning"?

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Someone who loves Jesus and has accepted Him as their Lord and Savior and who tries, day by day, to live for Him. In the process of course, their love for Jesus will be growing as they stay in the Word of God and in prayer. A Christian is not someone who is just religious or goes to church, and it isn't someone who hates people and has a self-righteous attitude. A Christian is humble and loving, as Jesus was, while speaking the truth; the whole truth.

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So how much do you love Jesus? Have you sold everything you own and given to the poor yet?

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Everglaze, we can know who is a true Christian by the way they live their life; if they give glory to the LORD.

 

HanSolo, I don't love Jesus as much as I should. I'm still growing in that department.

 

Oh, and when Jesus said that, He wanted to see if the rich man would part from his worldy possessions for the love of Jesus. Which leads to the question, do we have anything on this earth we love more than Jesus?

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Everglaze, we can know who is a true Christian by the way they live their life; if they give glory to the LORD.

 

HanSolo, I don't love Jesus as much as I should. I'm still growing in that department.

 

Oh, and when Jesus said that, He wanted to see if the rich man would part from his worldy possessions for the love of Jesus. Which leads to the question, do we have anything on this earth we love more than Jesus?

 

Scott,

 

Were the Christians who slaughtered Blasphemous Jews throughout history "True Christians"? If not, why not?

 

Scott, I have nothing I value less or more than a fictional, middle-eastern demi-god. Perhaps you missed the point that we are Ex-Christians. Even supposing there was an actual man that Jesus was based upon, the reality of the theological demi-god Jesus has not been proven.

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Hi Scott,

 

What's with all the abandoning certain threads?

 

this is one of the posts I've left for you elsewhere.

 

(sorry to interupt the flow of this thread guys - but Scott is begining to seriously piss me off ... )

 

I thought I would join the queue of people who want to point out to you that you have unanswered responses on several other threads ... mine is in the 'word for God' thread. I'd really appreciate a reply ... I tried to pm you but it seems that your inbox is filled to the brim ...

 

I just wanted to ask you to think about the titles 'God the Father' and the 'son of God'.

 

I what way do you think God is Jesus' Father? and in the same way, how is Jesus his son?

 

As God is a non material spirit, without body, without genes, without form, without a brain, without hormonal responses - how can this function of 'father' manifest itself?

 

Can you not see that these phrases are metaphors that would have their authors cringing in agony if they had the slightest notion that generations later people would start to think these literal terms?

 

Do you believe that God has a right hand?

 

I'm hoping that you will recognise this one as metaphor ... but I won't hold my breath because I have met christians who insist he has ... for example - I once had this conversation with a warm hearted christian friend in a cozy little bistro (although not that warm hearted it turned out as she cut off our friendship when I finally fully deconverted)

 

Me: but surely you can see that when the bible speaks of 'the right hand of god' this is a metaphor

Old Friend: If the Bible says God has a right hand then I believe it.

Me: but the Bible is clear that God is a spirit, so what would this hand be made of?

Old Friend: God can do anything. He is all powerful.

Me: so (I place my hand on the table between us) imagine my hand is God's hand ... (I point to one finger) so in order for God to have a hand - this would be God ... (then I point to the space bwteen my fingers) and this not God. (I point to each finger in turn and to the spaces in between) God .... not God .... God ..... not God .... Right?

Old friend: yes.

Me: but God is omnipresent - where do the gaps between his fingers come from?

Old Friend: ummm. It says it in the bible, so I believe it.

Me: I think a second bottle is called for.

 

Dear Scott,

 

This fits in with the current discussion I think, in respect of use of the word 'relationship'. Please think about the terms you use and the ones that cannot possibly be taken in a literal sense when talking about the God concept.

 

Thank you

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Someone who loves Jesus and has accepted Him as their Lord and Savior

okay
and who tries, day by day, to live for Him. In the process of course, their love for Jesus will be growing as they stay in the Word of God and in prayer.
so if so one accept Jesus but doesnt try to live day by day but instead every other day do they lose there christian card, they can't call themselves a christian anymore. What about if they live for Jesus week by week, does all that getting saved stuff not matter and now you can say they are not a christian.
A Christian is not someone who is just religious or goes to church,
so let me get this straight. If a person got saved, YOU for so reason can say they are not a christian even though they are religious and go to church?
and isn't someone who hates people and has a self-righteous attitude.
What if they are growing and working on this. arent they still christians. If they aren't working on it but still go to church do you have the right to say they aren't christian.
A Christian is humble and loving, as Jesus was, while speaking the truth; the whole truth.[/b]

Which demonination has the "whole truth®"? Let me guess, yours does. Cause if it wasn't, you wouldn't be speaking the whole truth and therefore not a christian by your own definition. Listen everyone "GO TO SCOTTS CHRUCH BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE WHOLE TRUTH!!!!"

 

Scott you can't judge a christian by there action and say some aren't 'true christians®'. That make you a self righteous prick and therefore not a christian. An evil christian is still a christian except he needs to repent and grow. If that was the case I can say u, Scott, aren't a christian because you have said you needed to grow and you are self-righteous. Your not a christian scott by your own definition.

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Someone who loves Jesus and has accepted Him as their Lord and Savior and who tries, day by day, to live for Him. In the process of course, their love for Jesus will be growing as they stay in the Word of God and in prayer. A Christian is not someone who is just religious or goes to church, and it isn't someone who hates people and has a self-righteous attitude. A Christian is humble and loving, as Jesus was, while speaking the truth; the whole truth.

 

A question for you Scott:

 

Where does the bible say to "accept Jesus as your lord and saviour"?

 

Where does the bible say that a Christian is supposed to "try" to live for Jesus?

 

(Not that you said it in this post but the following are often said by Xtians)

 

Where does the bible say to "ask Jesus into your heart"?

 

Where does the bible say anything about "praying the sinner's prayer"? Where is the "sinner's prayer" in the bible?

 

 

 

Why do Xtians ignore the fact that Jesus said many DIFFERENT things as to how one gets into heaven including:

 

"love god with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself",

"follow the Mosaic laws",

"sell all your possessions" - [oh, and hate your mother, father, sister, brother, etc],

"eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood",

"be born again" [interestingly enough he doesn't really elaborate on this but Xtians throughout history have been kind enough to explain what he meant],

"believe in Jesus" [this one is kind of interesting in that its meaning requires Xtian explanations as well since "the devils believe too and they tremble in fear"]

 

 

Yes, indeed, Jesus gave numerous directions for getting into heaven but never once said anything about "accepting him as Lord and Saviour" or "asking Jesus into your heart" or "being baptized", etc.

 

This brings up another question. If ALL the things Jesus DID SAY about getting into heaven are required, why didn't he give ALL these answers to EACH person that asked? Why did he only give each one a "piece" of what is required? Seems like he doesn't really want anyone in heaven with him. It's kind of like having someone ask you how to get to the drug store to get medicine and the directions require that you make 7 or 8 different turns but you only tell them one of the turns... they never get there!

 

Hmmmm.... so many questions and so few reasonable and honest answers. I used to drive my Seminary professors crazy with these questions. Their only answer was "have faith in god".

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HanSolo, I don't love Jesus as much as I should. I'm still growing in that department.

So how much "Jesus love" is required to be a "true" Christian? A little, a lot, or just something in between? Are you sure you love him enough to be called a Christian? The requirement to be a "true" Christian was to "love" Jesus. But how much, or how little? Do you think that many call themselves Christians, but they really don't care for what Christianity is or who/what Jesus is, and don't even care or love Jesus even the slightest? So at what point is "loving Jesus" as a measure flagging that someone is a true Christian?

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Everglaze, we can know who is a true Christian by the way they live their life; if they give glory to the LORD.

 

Um, no you can't. If you saw a million people or influential leaders who were just as giving/generous or even more caring and giving than Christians were, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference just by behaviour.

 

Hell, there are tons of people who behave and act more civilized and in good manner than Christians.

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Being Christian is just like smoking, it's addictive and hard to quit, but when you do you feel better, and your breath doesn't smell so bad anymore. ;) Anyway, when someone quit smoking, they can for sure claim they used to be smokers. There's no "True" Smoker v "Untrue" Smoker. Every smoker is a smoker. Everyone calling themselves Christian is a Christian. They're all "smoking" the same religion. But now some smoke light, some menthol, some non-filtered Marlboro, but it's the same drug. :) (btw, y'all know I smoke... but not the religious kind)

 

And since I compared religion to alcohol addiction before too, I just end it with this little thought:

First the man had a drink.

Then the drink had the drink.

Then the drink had the man.

 

That's not true.

 

"Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." Matthew 7:21.

 

"This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me." Matthew 15:8.

 

"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord', and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46.

 

The Bible is clear that just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't make it so.

That is funny that you quote those verses. That is how I see fundamental Christians. What was it that was said in the very next verse in Matthew 15:9? Oh yeah:

 

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

 

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

 

Do you hear and understand that you too are teaching the doctrines of the commandments of men?

 

And Matthew 7:21...hmmm. What precipitates that verse?

 

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

 

I'm sure you can follow along with me when I see fundamental Christians doing the very thing this says not to. If you follow the teachings of false prophets, such as the church which was built by the ideas of men, you will never find the kingdom of heaven because they are looking to things in the world to bring this 'kingdom' to them at a later time. They gate is narrow because many, like fundamental Christians, never understand that the kingdom of heaven is in you and when you understand that, what comes from you will be from the kingdom. It is not a system of rewards where you will be rewarded with the kingdom of heaven by doing things with your sights set on that reward. A reward that is only told to you by ravening wolves (yes, they had much to gain from preaching this system of rewards). If you believe this system of rewards, Jesus was talking to you and your 'house will wash away' because what comes from you is not geniune but based on the reward your actions will bring you...the kingdom of heaven (in the afterlife). You can't do things in hopes to have the reward of the kingdom of heaven, you do things from the kingdom of heaven that is already inside you and the reward will follow naturally. But, you can't access the kingdom of heaven if you think you don't already have it and start looking for it elsewhere because your sights are once again turned away.

 

Oh...it says it right here:

 

Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.

 

The reward that is spoken of is what comes back to you naturally when you do good things with no hope of reward. If you do good for the purpose of the reward, you will get only heartache. Funny how karma works. This is not speaking of an afterlife. But life period.

 

Let me just put here the law of karma and see if you can relate it to what Jesus was saying:

 

"The Law of Karma

In Buddhist teaching, the law of karma, says only this: `for every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first, and this second event will be pleasant or unpleasant according as its cause was skillful or unskillful.' A skillful event is one that is not accompanied by craving, resistance or delusions; an unskillful event is one that is accompanied by any one of those things. (Events are not skillful in themselves, but are so called only in virtue of the mental events that occur with them.)

Therefore, the law of Karma teaches that responsibility for unskillful actions is born by the person who commits them.

 

Let's take an example of a sequence of events. An unpleasant sensation occurs. A thought arises that the source of the unpleasantness was a person. (This thought is a delusion; any decisions based upon it will therefore be unskillful.) A thought arises that some past sensations of unpleasantness issued from this same person. (This thought is a further delusion.) This is followed by a willful decision to speak words that will produce an unpleasant sensation in that which is perceived as a person. (This decision is an act of hostility. Of all the events described so far, only this is called a karma.) Words are carefully chosen in the hopes that when heard they will cause pain. The words are pronounced aloud. (This is the execution of the decision to be hostile. It may also be classed as a kind of karma, although technically it is an after-karma.) There is a visual sensation of a furrowed brow and downturned mouth. The thought arises that the other person's face is frowning. The thought arises that the other person's feelings were hurt. There is a fleeting joyful feeling of success in knowing that one has scored a damaging verbal blow. Eventually (perhaps much later) there is an unpleasant sensation of regret, perhaps taking the form of a sensation of fear that the perceived enemy may retaliate, or perhaps taking the form of remorse on having acted impetuously, like an immature child, and hping that no one will remember this childish action. (This regret or fear is the unpleasant ripening of the karma, the unskillful decision to inflict pain through words.)

 

If there are no persons at all, then there is no self and no other. There is no distinction between pain of which there is direct sensual awareness (which is conventionally called one's own pain) and pain that is known through inference (conventionally called another person's pain). Whether pain is known directly or indirectly, there is either an urge to quell it or an urge to cultivate it. Whether joy is known directly or indirectly, there is either an urge to nourish it or to quell it. In the conventional language of speaking of events personally, the urge to quell all pain and to nourish all joy is known as being ethical or skillful or (if you like) good. The urge to nourish pain and quell joy is known as being unskillful, unethical or bad.

 

Being fully ethical is said to be impossible for those who make a distinction between self and other and show preference for the perceived self over the perceived other, for such perceptions inhibit being fully responsive. Being fully ethical is possible only for those who realize that all persons are empty, that is, devoid of personhood." From here: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/freenet/rootdir...ths/karma2.html

 

 

So, what are you up to Scott? How do you see this? Do you see it in a fundamental way?

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if they give glory to the LORD.

 

 

One more thing Scott, about the "If" part. Since there are people that behave in a more rational and caring manner than Christians, there are also those (on top of all that) giving praise to God on the Dinner table. You wouldn't be able to discern them by behaviour. That's not all though. If you're a sinner just like the sinners that you point your finger to, then that must mean you cannot judge unless you're without sin. By saying someone is not a Christian because they are doing something "unholy," how can you be sure that they aren't a new Christian who doesn't know all the rules? You judging them would only make you a hypocrite and you rebuking them would only make you a hypocrite also. All the more reason why the Bible just comes down to corn flakes and bedrock pebbles.

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Someone who loves Jesus and has accepted Him as their Lord and Savior and who tries, day by day, to live for Him. In the process of course, their love for Jesus will be growing as they stay in the Word of God and in prayer. A Christian is not someone who is just religious or goes to church, and it isn't someone who hates people and has a self-righteous attitude. A Christian is humble and loving, as Jesus was, while speaking the truth; the whole truth.

Let me see if you resemble that self-righteous attitude that your understanding of the bible promotes. I want you to understand that I understand that you don't see it as being self-righteous, but none-the-less, it is. You are believing what men interpreted Jesus saying as being exclusive to everyone else when this is not the case. If you don't have ears to hear and eyes to see as Jesus said, then maybe you should consider trying to understand it in a different light. You follow the teachings of men. This is why you say you believe one way, but your actions portray another.

 

The mark of a true Christian is believing in Jesus Christ as the only way to God and Salvation, and accepting Him as their Lord and Savior, along with repenting from every known sin...

Exclusive...Jesus didn't teach that God was exclusive. God doesn't belong to a certain group of people.

"Do you think that Christians who do not believe the same things you do are not "True Christians?" The answer to this question is not a yes or no answer. There are some basic Christian doctrines, that unless you do believe it, you are not a Christian at all. For example, Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That is a solid doctrine of the Christianity, and for a so-called Christian to claim Jesus as being anything other than the Son of God is heresy.

Exclusive...God doesn't just belong to Christians. Heresy is a church word used to keep you in their fold and theirs alone. "Kill all the heretics" was used for many years to promote this exclusivity.

Reverend Atheistar, we are not to just go around picking up snakes to prove we have faith. That is like putting God to the test {Matthew 4:7}. It's a sin. And I do know for certain what will happen to me after death, and there is no need for me to be afraid. I know that I will be with my Master, the Lord Jesus, along with all others who accept Him as Lord and Savior of their lives.

Exclusive. YOUR master...YOUR savior. God doesn't belong to anyone in particular. Change the word God to Infinity and then try to lay claim to it by saying...MY Infinity. Strange sound to it huh?

 

Notblidedbytheblight, every Christian on earth has the Holy Spirit within them, therefore, they have an assurance of salvation. I don't expect you to understand this, so I'll leave it at that...

A self-righteous judgement...

Notblindedbytheblight, I am not being arrogant or prideful. I am telling you what the Bible says. Every Christian is indwelt by God the Holy Spirit {1 Cor. 6:19}. Jesus' mesage was to all. But only those who accept Him will be saved, and those who do not accept Him will be condemned {Jn. 3:17-18}.

Exclusive. Every Christian...

 

Jesus' message was to all and those that understood his message could be saved...BY UNDERSTANDING HIS MESSAGE. It has nothing to do with accepting him as the literal son of God. That was the church.

First I would like to say, there is no such thing as an "exchristian". You may think you are, but in the Biblical sense of the word, you were never really Christians, if you truly denied the Faith. Jesus stated in Matthew 10:26-10 that no one can snatch us out of the hand of God. So, if you fall from the Faith and never decide to come back, you were never in the Father's hand. You were never a sheep of Jesus; a Christian. 1 John 2:18-19 states that antichrists may have seemed to be a Christian, but they departed from the Faith. So, it's not possible to say you were once a true Christian, then left the Faith. No true Christians leave the Faith, and you will know a true Christian by the way they live.

Do I even have to say it???

You tell us to have "thick skin", yet you can't handle it when Christians share what we believe, talk about, and quote the Bible. I am not being condescening. I am, probably like the other Christians here, stating my beliefs. My belief is the Bible. I, and every other Christian, believe the Bible to be 100% true. I accept that you're not Christians. I know this. I am not here to "win converts". I first came here because this site popped up when I was looking for something else, and I came in out of curiousity. I do not lie either. That post I wrote about what I was like before I was a Christian is 100% true.

 

If the "I'm sorry" didn't sound to heartfelt then...I'm sorry lol, it's because I don't believe I have been rude or condescening. I am, like you, stating what I believe in.

Is it no wonder that you don't see it? You are living in a world that all of creation fits in to when that is just not the case. God doesn't fit in any box of thought or belief. Do you know why? Because that thought alone is EXCLUSIVE and leads to self-righteous behavior.

I'm busy, so I only have time to respond to one thing, and I'll respond to the others later. Every Christian believes in the Bible. If they don't, there is no hope for Salvation, no hope in the Lord, or anything. Without the Bible, the entire Christian belief falls apart. So yes, every Christian who has hope in God believes in the Bible. First though, what do you think a Christian is?

No hope for Salvation?!?! Self-righteous screams in this post Scott! You are mistaking the beliefs of men with God. One can have hope in God without even knowing or reading about the bible. God is not in the words of the bible. The bible is only one way to speak about what people thought God might be.

 

I hope you get my point because I don't want to keep going with this. I tried to tell you that this attitude doesn't sit well with the people on this site. They understand that no one has the corner on truth and that no one is any more 'chosen' than the next person.

 

Your fruits are are pretty sour Scott and it shows. Your beliefs are the poster-child for what Jesus spoke against and what is coming from you is based on this belief that has been twisted in order to be exclusive. Jesus would be stunned, IMO, if he were able to see that what he taught had been used to promote just the opposite of what he was trying to say. It's hard to reconcile what Jesus said with the interpretations of the church and come across without sounding self-righteous. Can you see that is what has happened with you? You say one thing about what a Christian is, but what you post reflects what Jesus spoke against many times.

 

As I said, I know it's not your fault because you have been taught to think this way and the way Jesus' message was interpreted by people, built these contradictions into the bible. The only way to break free of that mindset is to understand that God is not in the bible. God did not write the bible. Jesus spoke and taught about God. What did Jesus say about God? What does the Hindu say about God? What does the Muslim say about God? What does the Buddhist say about God (although not called God...which I don't blame them)? They are just teachings from people that speak about the Divine or the Holy. This is where you can learn that God isn't exclusive and does not promote self-righteousness. How could it IF It is the sourse of ALL life?

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Someone who loves Jesus and has accepted Him as their Lord and Savior

Check

 

"and who tries, day by day, to live for Him. "

Check

 

In the process of course, their love for Jesus will be growing as they stay in the Word of God and in prayer.

Check

 

A Christian is not someone who is just religious or goes to church"

Check

 

and it isn't someone who hates people

I was actually known for being able to make friends with those who didn't have many friends. So I reckon I qualify for a "check" there too.

 

and (doesn't) has a self-righteous attitude.

I always believed it was never my place to judge. Mmmmm, how can anyone say they are not self righteous without appearing self-righteous? :scratch: It's a bit like telling people how humble you are. Oh well, at the risk of appearing self-righteous, I'm gonna put a "check" next to this one too. (Scott do you see yourself as non-self-righteous?)

 

A Christian is humble

Check! I was a very humble person! Ooops! Better watch what I say there. :eek: But seriously, I was never one to blow my own trumpet. I've always hated being the centre of attention. (How humble are you Scott?)

 

and loving, as Jesus was,

I tried to be. I generally accepted people for who they were, still do.

 

while speaking the truth; the whole truth.

I never felt comfortable about lying. Lie once and it can get you into big trouble further down that track. And anything I said about Christianity, I believed to be true.

 

 

Mmmm. So yes, according to your definition Scott, I was indeed a true Christian.

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Everglaze, we can know who is a true Christian by the way they live their life; if they give glory to the LORD.

 

HanSolo, I don't love Jesus as much as I should. I'm still growing in that department.

 

Oh, and when Jesus said that, He wanted to see if the rich man would part from his worldy possessions for the love of Jesus. Which leads to the question, do we have anything on this earth we love more than Jesus?

Scott, first you give us some cock-and-bull personal laundry list of what YOU say makes a True Christian™. You say that these characteristics MUST be adhered to.

 

And then when HanSolo points out that you DON'T love Jesus enough to sell all your possessions, you A) Claim that you are still growing in this department and B ) Even if you are still growing, it doesn't matter because YOU have a different interpretation of that scripture which means you don't have to comply with it. Standard Kettle Logic at work.

 

You're full of shit, Scott. Why is it that YOU can be "growing" and be not yet perfect, and still be considered a True Christian™, yet you deny the same leeway for your brethren? You judge that others are NOT Christians because they fall short of YOUR Pharisaical rules, (totally unbiblical BTW) yet you give yourself all kinds of loopholes to slither through.

 

You say that going to church doesn't make one a True Christian™? Well, of course YOU'D say this! YOU don't go to church! How handy is that?

 

Scott, you're no True Christian™. You're one of the Pharisees that Jesus warned us all about. Talking shit and judging others. Get bent.

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Scott, you're no True Christian™. You're one of the Pharisees that Jesus warned us all about. Talking shit and judging others. Get bent.

Indeed....all fundamentals are no matter what flavor.

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