Abiyoyo Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 If he really followed the law as you claimed he did, he would have stoned her to death as the law demanded. He had no problem doing so to the man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath, so why spare the women? I have been waiting for someone to say that. If Jesus would have stoned her to death then He wouldve been just like Elijah. Correct. Elijah had slain over 400 false prophets. Jesus would probualy be considered, as do the Islamic consider Him. There wouldnt be any divinity toward Him, because He wouldnt be set apart from the rest of the prophets that God sent, that rained fire down from the heavens. Elijah was lifted up to heaven in a whirlwind. Elijah had many attributes of something special. Didnt heal the blind though; nor did he give a light, to the Gentiles. You know what would have happened then. Nothing. Judiaism would be just that, and the God of Israel would be considered by many as the God that is zealous and full of wrath toward any deviation from His laws. Jesus probualy would be still considered an outlaw of some sort for them, and life would be without Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 http://www.morallaw.org/declaration.htm YoYo, I read that link, but I couldn't find the words "jesus", "yahweh", "cross", "christ", "christian", or "christianity" anywhere. The ONLY deity mentioned is "Nature's God" and the "Supreme Judge" of the world. Those terms fit in perfectly with a Deist (or any other religion you may wish to follow), am I missing something here? How do you read that and conclude the founders wanted a XTIAN nation? Please explain. Well Marty. Long story really. Some posts ago, I quoted Benjamin Franklins speech in the Constitutional convention 1787. Benjamin Franklin uses a verse from the NT, about the sparrow; I used this simply to portray that the influence of God was applied from the founding fathers in our forming of this country. Somehow, whether I misquoted or misspoke, the subject went from influence, to prove it. So, the Declaration link is just to show that whether it be Deist or Christian thought; this country was formed around the influence of God. It is in my assumption and opinion that it is the God of Christianity; though some of the founding fathers make a point to exclude acknowledgment or salute to Him in many documents. In my opinion, I see that as them applying what they were installing; separation of church and state. I personally think the Benjamin quote is important because it seems to show his concern, for the lack of God's presence in those important meetings. In lue of the forming of what I perceive, by Benjamin Franklin; a Great nation. He compared the sucess without God to Babel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 http://www.morallaw.org/declaration.htm Do you know what Deism is Yoyo? And the difference between Deism and Theism and even further Christianity? Do you know anything about Natural Religion or Naturalism? If you do or don't, it doesn't really matter, the question is why the Declaration of Independence doesn't say "God", or "The God of Jesus", but it says "Creator". That's a very open label. You know that some of the founders and also many of the presidents were Free Masons, and Free Masons do *not* believe in one particular religion, even though they believe in one supreme being. They don't follow Christianity, or Islam or Judaism or Deism, but just believe there is a creator. Now, how do you go from that point to the 10 commandments? Does this masonic view of the Creator and the Declaration really fit with the 1st commandment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 Does anyone else find it more than a little humorous that YoYo seems to be arguing that he, nor any Gentile xians, should be bound by the law under the Jerusalem Decree and yet he posts a link to a website arguing that the 10 commandments should be posted in government buildings? I guess those Jews that come into court will appreciate it since no one else has a use for them, right YoYo? Oh, and which of the three sets of the 10 commandments should we make those Jews follow? mwc Misapplied thought, Mwc. I consider and acknowledge that the ten commandments were structured and handed down by God, according to Moses. I understand that the Ten commandements are not to be denied; yet the other 600 and so forth Levitical laws followed by the Jews; are just that. Jewish Moral laws. Peter, along with the other Elders from the followers of Christ, instituted this ordiance or direction to the Gentiles that were experiencing the infilling of the Promise from Christ; those of whom didnt even follow the Jewish Law at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Misapplied thought, Mwc. I consider and acknowledge that the ten commandments were structured and handed down by God, according to Moses. I understand that the Ten commandements are not to be denied; yet the other 600 and so forth Levitical laws followed by the Jews; are just that. Jewish Moral laws. Peter, along with the other Elders from the followers of Christ, instituted this ordiance or direction to the Gentiles that were experiencing the infilling of the Promise from Christ; those of whom didnt even follow the Jewish Law at all. So then you're saying that xians ARE to follow the 10 commandments? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Do you know what Deism is Yoyo? Let me follow-up and add a bit too Han. YoYo, deism has no dogmas. Deism has no articles of faith. Deism does not have an organization. Deists have no priests, no holy book, nothing. But Christianity does. Again, YoYo, which Christian laws specifically are cited and enshrined in the Constitution? I'll keep asking until you highlight the specific laws written by lawyers who not only wrote contracts, but had a deep understanding of religious persecution and theocratic states. Also, as I have pointed out before, it doesn't matter what gods the founders individually believe in, they founded a representational democractic republic and not a theocracy. If you want a theocracy, move to Iran, or Iraq, or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Thanks Quicky, Another thing I just can't understand is when people claim that US law is founded on the 10 commandments, just frigging read the first amendment and compare it to the first commandment. One of them say don't you dare have any other gods, while the other say you are free to believe any god you want. I just don't get it! They're the opposites. They're not compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Thanks Quicky, One of them say don't you dare have any other gods, while the other say you are free to believe any god you want. I just don't get it! They're the opposites. They're not compatible. But see, their own babble is full of contradictions JUST LIKE THIS! They are trained from birth that contradictions are not really contradictions. It doesn't suprise me that they can't pick up on such a simple error in thinking. But it doesn't mean I'm still not pulling my hair out over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Well Marty. Long story really. Some posts ago, I quoted Benjamin Franklins speech in the Constitutional convention 1787. Benjamin Franklin uses a verse from the NT, about the sparrow; I used this simply to portray that the influence of God was applied from the founding fathers in our forming of this country. Ahh, but the debate is not about influence, now is it? Everything I hear and read about is how this is a XTIAN nation that was FOUNDED on xtian principles by XTIAN men. The word "influence" is not generally used. "The 10 commandments were used as a "foundational document" for our laws", that's the argument I hear most often, not that it was "influential" in our current laws. And to repeat han solo, all you need to do is look at the first amedment and compare it to the first commandment and you can see that it is complete hogwash. And how do you explain Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoly? You can't state it any more concise than saying the U.S. is "not in any way a xtian nation." Contrast that with your quotes of Franklin that are not even part of any state papers or other law document and it really doesn't hold any water, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangstaknitta Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 You know what would have happened then. Nothing. Judiaism would be just that, and the God of Israel would be considered by many as the God that is zealous and full of wrath toward any deviation from His laws. Jesus probualy would be still considered an outlaw of some sort for them, and life would be without Christianity. Holy. Shit. Are you seriously saying that Jesus had to "make God nice"? That God was a complete jerk before Jesus came along? That God could not do it himself? How does that not directly undermine any claim to his omnipotence? Or should I say "impotence"? Jesus: God's Spiritual Viagra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunk Bishop Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 i saw this article posted over at Netscape and thought it was good. "Is America a Christian Nation?" from ffrf.org (freedom from religion). a great book to read about the "real" American Founding Fathers (not the puff pieces that American hagiographers write).... Francis Jennings' The Creation of America argues that each of the Founding Fathers were money hungry politicians looking to gain wealth. They used the "language" of Christianity just to pitch their governmental money making schemes to the common folk. but all that is really for another thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I have been waiting for someone to say that. If Jesus would have stoned her to death then He wouldve been just like Elijah. C It would have meant that he upheld the law. Jesus the God had no problem with the Isrealite stoning the poor man who picked up sticks on the sabbath, so why was the women spared? Does he have favourites? Even while in Earth, he condemned the Jews for not stoning their children for disobedience. So I guess that makes him a divine hypocrate doesn't it? Correct. Elijah had slain over 400 false prophets. Jesus would probualy be considered, as do the Islamic consider Read Deaut 13;18. What is the punishment for false prophets? Elijah was only following orders of his God, and if you want Jesus the God. Him. There wouldnt be any divinity toward Him, because He wouldnt be set apart from the rest of the prophets that God sent, that rained fire down from the heavens. Elijah was lifted up to heaven in a whirlwind. Elijah had many attributes of something special. Didnt heal the blind though; nor did he give a light, to the Gentiles. Once again, read Deaut 13;18. Signs and miracles performed by someone who claims to be a prophet are not necessarily the proof of his or her truth (see Deut 13:2&6). http://messiahtruth.com/deut1815.html You know what would have happened then. Nothing. Judiaism would be just that, and the God of Israel would be considered by many as the God that is zealous and full of wrath toward any deviation from His laws. So, what your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts