Intelligent People

[Kuroikaze]

 

 

It wasn't my desire to insinuate that all religious people are dumb, I, myself, could be called religious depending on your definition, I do consider myself Taoist after all. I was mostly just noting something that I found a bit odd or funny given the place I live is so full of Fundamentalist Christians (and usually ignorant ones as well) some of whom can be real jerks if they find out you aren't a believer, a fact I've experienced first hand.

 

This is a factory town and as a result education levels tend to be lower, I guarantee that the number of people living here with a college education is well below the national average. I've worked at a lot of crappy jobs since I got out of college, and many of them were made worse by religious intolerance (one of the reasons I'm pretty reticent to talk about religion at all in the work place.

 

Its just this is probably the best job I've ever had, and it just seemed weird to me because this town is primarily made up of evangelicals/fundamentalists and has a chruch on every corner just about. Then I, as a non christian, happen to get a job in one of the few places in this town where none of the people are fundies. I'm just so used to being the odd man out its kind of refreshing for it to not be so when I go into work.

[Ro-bear]

 

I believe that the correlation we imagine between high intelligence and not being into religion, is the result of our own choices of whom to admire and with whom to hang out.

 

 

I think it it very real, but not universal. There are some very intelligent religious people.

 

 

 

Once a year I moderate two different High School Scholars Bowls, one for a particular nine-county district that includes both private and public schools, and one for the Mississippi Private School Association.

 

Interesting; I'm one of the Scholars' Bowl sponsors at my school. It's great meeting the intellectual cream of the rising generation. These teenagers are far more fun to hang out with than teenagers in general.

 

How will they be as adults? I will never know, as these kids all promise to stay in touch but never do.

 

Not the case around here. Our alumni members are always dropping by to sit in on practice meetings, often competing against our current team to harden them for competition. One comes to my July 4th party every year and helps with the party prep.

[Piprus]

Your observation is valid, Kuroikaze, and is food for thought, but keep in mind it's a pretty small situation, maybe even just a coincidence. But interesting...is it a matter of intelligence, or is it the overall mindset of certain folks, that those who gravitate to technical or scientific careers tend to be less "spiritual" in their world view? Genetics, childhood environment, peer group? Lots of possibilities...who can say for sure?

 

 

“Mankind has been punished long and heavily for having created its gods; nothing but pain and persecution has been man's lot since gods began.” (Emma Goldman)

[Minstrel]

I think you may be a bit too generous when broadly applying the term intelligent to tech nerds.

You're so funny...but correct.

I've met some very intelligent people in almost every field of endeavor I've been exposed to. My grandfather was very intelligent concerning crops, animal husbandry, ranching...with a formal education only through the 2nd grade. He died in Jan 1, 2000...and didn't become religious (though all his family around, were) until he almost died a few years earlier...and was constantly harassed by crying children and grandchildren who didn't want him to go to Hell.

But...to a piece of the original point/intent...it is nice to not be surrounded by those of a religious (particularly - Christian, Islam, Judaism) bent.

[Amethyst]

This honestly struck me as odd, in a town with sooooo many religious people, the entire geek squad department is made up of very non-religous people, has anyone else noticied this trend in tech jobs, or other jobs that require a lot of inteligence? Oh well, I guess I shouldn't over anylize I'll just be thankful for the fact that my job is haven from the world of fundies I live in

 

As a geek myself, I have noticed that geeks in general aren't as religious as non-geeks. However, us geeks (especially computer geeks) tend to have more skills in the logic department and have a tendency to be more skeptical. That may be it.

[Taphophilia]

My mother is very intellegent and very fundy. It doesn't have anything to do with her intellegence but her emotional needs.

 

My mother has an eighth grade education. You would never know by talking to her, and very few people even know. My mother always reads. I can't think of a time in my life when she didn't have a book she was reading, or even a couple of books she was reading at the same time.

 

Even today, there are always books and magazines stacked up on her coffee table that she has recently read or is in the process of reading. Sure, she has "Glorious Appearing" and "A Purpose Driven Life" on the coffee table. She complains she needs to read them, but doesn't understand why everytime she tries her mind wonders, she says it must be the Devil!.

 

Other books include, "A Beautiful Mind" or "I Know This Much is True". The magazines are not mindless reading either like "People" or "The National Enquirer", I doubt she'd have them in her house, she subscribes to "Archetectual Digest", "Town & Country" and her favorite "Vanity Fair".

 

I think a lot of it has to do with superstition and being conditioned to believe in the supernatural as fact. Some people are afraid to question and think for themselves, because they have been conditioned that their opinoins are not important and somehow inferior. They also don't want to rock the boat of what they consider their own experience with the supernatural. I believe it is also fear of death and facing the nothingness of finality.

[♦ nivek ♦]

My IQ persistantly breaks the 145 mark when tested. I am *smart* according to the folks who make measures of things such as this.

 

Do I feel smart or intelligent? Not particullarly.. Know that abilities to "see" parts, how to make assemblies, fabricate tools to make bigger tools, can read at 2k/min when I care to, am both handed in most things.

 

Am a glorified unerachiever, hate to work, and not motivated often to do shit if I don't have to..

 

My Old Man told me once: "Kid you spend more time trying to figure out how to not work than you do working!"

 

School bored me to shit, after I got the text books, usually I could wing through the entire content of them in a few weeks, turn my work in and goof off in metals and weld shop.. As long as I had work done School folks let me alone, figuring I was *safe* under the firm hands of the Machineshop guys..

 

Little did they know I was learning the skills to make tons of money later and do a career of fixing and fabricating..

 

I have little patience for folks who wont get their hands dirty or bloody.

Spent my adult life fixing *things* and people all over the world..

 

Not too bad for a lunkhead whose Old Man figured he'd see his oldest kid on Death Row or worse!

 

k, goatbot, FL

[Taphophilia]

Nevik,

 

I think you fail to mention your greatest strength. It is to size people up consistantly and correctly and having the best bullshit detector that I've ever seen.

 

Taph

[Cracked]

Anyway I have personally noticed that it is easier for any religious entity to persuade people into believing what they believe when the person is in a weakened state of mind. This may mean the person is less intelligent than most. But not every time. It just means the person is just in a weak state of mind like I all ready said. The person may be weak because they are a child, on drugs or just having hard times in their life.

[Gaura]

I do think there is something to the original observation that geeks and the like are not generally highly religious sorts. However, I do think there are some quid pro quos to that as well. I do think that spiritual sorts (like several of us here at Ex-C, thinking people who come to their own conclusion about the nature of deity) can be very intelligent but frequently they do not follow a specific path or they use a nontraditional or eclectic view of that path. They're not sheeple, in other words. I do think that the people who are very stuck in fundamentalist churches, who can't really break out and think for themselves, those are the ones that seem to have less intelligence. I will say that most of the atheists I've known are generally very intelligent. But I've also encountered many a Pagan (frequently eclectic ones) who can run circles around me, and I assure you my IQ is not lukewarm (I had a teacher who thought I was Mensa material so she set me up with a tester, with parental permission. I tested 128-132) and I've met a good number of Buddhists in particular (not sure why) whose intellectual functioning is superb.

 

This is not to say that either high intelligence or low intelligence is necessarily best. I've over-thought situations more times than I can count. And some people who are more "average" can run physical circles around me. We all have strengths, we all have weaknesses. I'm very verbal, and I feel that usually I can speak my mind well. My son is very much the opposite, he's a late talker. So-- he got my hubby's ability with numbers... at 3.4 he can count at least to 12 and sometimes to 20, and I think he might be getting the idea behind addition as well, plus he knows the written form of 0 and 1-9. Me, well let's just say that math is not my forte. My son is relatively bright, he loves to try and figure out how things work, and how to put them together and take them apart. he just doesn't necessarily talk about it. (It's a challenge)

[BlueGiant]

To say that there isn't a correlation between intelligence and how religious someone would be disingenuous at best, however we all (should) know here that correlation does not equate to causation. I have noticed that a lot of more inteligent people (can think on their feet, build things, or do something that indicates an increased mental capacity) tend to take religion is a much less serious fashion. Now, why this is, I am not certain.

 

I would like to point out that there is a very small portion of the fundamentalist population that actually are otherwise bright people. Most are not exactly not the brightest bulbs (at least from what I've observed). Why does a die-hard devotion to a religion appeal to them and not the more mentally agile?

 

Also, anyone ever notice that the topic of smarts is pretty much a grenade when used in conversation?

[The Sage Nabooru]

I've met a good number of Buddhists in particular (not sure why) whose intellectual functioning is superb.

 

This may be due to several reasons:

 

1. Buddhism is primarily practiced by people of Asian descent (although the recent growth in Western converts is making a much broader, more global picture). In Asian culture in general a lot of emphasis is placed on intelligence and education in particular.

 

2. Buddhism and Eastern religions in general are more concerned with esoteric, rather than exoteric, principles; that is, philosophy and Ultimate Reality, for example, as opposed to the Western ideals of outward practice, actions and works, history, etc. To put it another way they are more attuned to "figuring out" rather then "accept this dogma and shut up". Buddhism is especially strong in this regard, and it opens up a far greater range of possibilities and freedom for the mind.

 

3. Buddhism teaches that if any particular doctrine is absolutely refuted by science, to drop the doctrine and embrace the science. How's THAT for a breath of fresh air!

 

I feel that religions such as Buddhism, New Age and Taoism and even Hinduism can actually be a good way to open the mind further to ever more possibilities. Christianity emphasizes blind obedience and the literal closing of the mind to any further ideas, but certain spiritual paths represent learning of the physical universe as the greatest achievement of the human mind.