How Would You Answer This

[vargo]

I said

 

The lack of facts and evidence speak volumes about the mythology of the Bible

 

 

 

My friend said this

 

 

chuckschants: And the presence of facts and evidence speak volumes about the truth of the Bible.

 

More refined research in a variety of fields continues to validate Biblical testimonies that were once regarded as unbelievable.

 

But whether or not the Bible is based on fact or fiction, do you believe that the Christian faith is a myth?

[Max]

I'd say "yes" - well, not really that the faith is a myth (xtians obviously exist), but that it's based on a myth. Even if the stories of the bible are true, or based on truth, their interpretation is based on fancy.

 

Some guy showed up after jesus was dead, and after he left, they realized it was him? Volcanos erupt and are interpreted as the wrath of god? Women have babies so god must be punishing them? There's nothing coherent here.

[Soule]

I said

 

The lack of facts and evidence speak volumes about the mythology of the Bible

 

 

 

My friend said this

 

 

chuckschants: And the presence of facts and evidence speak volumes about the truth of the Bible.

 

More refined research in a variety of fields continues to validate Biblical testimonies that were once regarded as unbelievable.

 

But whether or not the Bible is based on fact or fiction, do you believe that the Christian faith is a myth?

 

yes. their understanding of god is quite contradictory. a omniscient and omnipotent god cannot exist as one being.

 

also, acording to the bible itself, and its "tests" for judging if a prophet is really a prophet, if anything the prophet says prophacises is wrong, then the entire prophet is a false prophet.

 

so lets take a look at the book of revelations. whats one of the first lines? "these things will soon come to pass"

 

that was writen like 2000 years ago. the person who wrote that believed that what he wrote would happen within his lifetime. so because this one prophacy is wrong, acording to the bible itself, the enitire bible must be wrong. by the bibles definition, the bible itself is a false prophet.

[dr_funkenstein]

acording to the bible itself, and its "tests" for judging if a prophet is really a prophet, if anything the prophet says prophacises is wrong, then the entire prophet is a false prophet.

 

so lets take a look at the book of revelations. whats one of the first lines? "these things will soon come to pass"

 

that was writen like 2000 years ago. the person who wrote that believed that what he wrote would happen within his lifetime. so because this one prophacy is wrong, acording to the bible itself, the enitire bible must be wrong. by the bibles definition, the bible itself is a false prophet.

 

So if the bible is a false prophet, the its test for determining the validity of a prophet is no longer a valid test - since it comes from an invalid source. Therefore the test used to invalidate the bible is an invalid one. Therefore the bible once again becomes a valid prophet.

 

[Soule]

acording to the bible itself, and its "tests" for judging if a prophet is really a prophet, if anything the prophet says prophacises is wrong, then the entire prophet is a false prophet.

 

so lets take a look at the book of revelations. whats one of the first lines? "these things will soon come to pass"

 

that was writen like 2000 years ago. the person who wrote that believed that what he wrote would happen within his lifetime. so because this one prophacy is wrong, acording to the bible itself, the enitire bible must be wrong. by the bibles definition, the bible itself is a false prophet.

 

So if the bible is a false prophet, the its test for determining the validity of a prophet is no longer a valid test - since it comes from an invalid source. Therefore the test used to invalidate the bible is an invalid one. Therefore the bible once again becomes a valid prophet.

 

 

then acording to your logic, if the bible becomes a valid prophet then the test becomes valid too, invalidating said previous validation. so what say we stop this annoying circle of logic.

[Thurisaz]

My friend said this [...]

 

It's a myth, that's so painfully obvious that it's a wonder anyone believes in it and doesn't hang his head in shame.

Now the existence of any deity is, almost per definitionem, unprovable... but this specific deity is perfectly absurd. At the very least those morontheists better explain damn good why the world is such a mess today... after all, an omniscient gawd would know what to do to make it a nice place, an omnipotent gawd wouldn't have any problems with <Picard>"make it so"</Picard>, and an omnibenevolent gawd wouldn't hesitate to do so.

At least they better explain it if they want to convince/reconvert me.

 

And of course, once you admit that the wholly babble is fallible, why stop at one verse? Why not dump the whole inhuman idiotic retarded fucking book?

 

Some guy showed up after jesus was dead, and after he left, they realized it was him? Volcanos erupt and are interpreted as the wrath of god? Women have babies so god must be punishing them? There's nothing coherent here.

 

I'm afraid you're wrong here.

The idiocy is perfectly coherent.

 

So if the bible is a false prophet, the its test for determining the validity of a prophet is no longer a valid test - since it comes from an invalid source. Therefore the test used to invalidate the bible is an invalid one. Therefore the bible once again becomes a valid prophet.

 

So there we have it, finally... the reason why morontheists are so utterly insane!

[NotBlinded]

Yes, it is a myth, but that doesn't mean that it is fiction. This is what a myth does:

 

"A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society."

 

It covers four areas:

 

Mystical

Sociological

Physical

Psychological

 

The sociological area contain truths such as people and their interactions. These people can be actual, embelished or invented. The point was to show how society operated in their time.

 

The physical aspect deals with science and trying to explain what things are, where we came from, etc. Science now replaces the role of the myth in trying to explain our universe. The purpose was to answer questions. Was it true? Some things probably are, but not most. Science changes even today, so how true is our understanding at this point in time?

 

The psychological aspects are very true for the time of the myth and many carry over as truths today.

 

The mystical...ahhh yes, this is where one cannot judge what is true or not because it deals with unknowns and is very subjective.

 

So, the myth contains truths, half-truths and stories invented to relate people to the mystical realm.

 

Any work of fiction will also contain truths, half-truths and stories. We take what we know to be true, such as places mentioned in the book and acknowledge that it is a real place, but the fantastic stories described to happen in the book can be understood to be untrue.

 

One of the differences between a myth and a work of fiction is that a myth tries really hard to relate people to their culture and the problems they encounter. Life in general...

 

So when one side claims that it is nothing more than a myth, that doesn't dismiss its truths. When the other side claims its truths as evidence, that doesn't mean that the entire myth is true.

[Antlerman]

I said

 

The lack of facts and evidence speak volumes about the mythology of the Bible

 

 

 

My friend said this

 

 

chuckschants: And the presence of facts and evidence speak volumes about the truth of the Bible.

 

More refined research in a variety of fields continues to validate Biblical testimonies that were once regarded as unbelievable.

 

But whether or not the Bible is based on fact or fiction, do you believe that the Christian faith is a myth?

The first argument from you over-generalizes a conclusion. The response argument from him over-generalizes his conclusion. It's not a one or the other argument. You're part right, he's part right. The Bible contains both truth and mythology. The Bible itself is not pure mythology, because it contains mythology. The Bible is not ALL true, because there are some things that are true in it (i.e., John the Baptist really in fact did live). What your argument can show however is that the Bible is not 100% factual in its details, and therefore arguments for infallibility fall flat.

 

The Bible is in fact neither based on fact or fiction, but "understandings" and ways of communicating. Not all is true, and not all is false. His question about the Christian faith itself being a myth is just silly and has nothing to do with the other questions.

 

BTW, Myth does not equal Lie. It's a part of language.

[BlueGiant]

What does the location of an anchient city or an old bath have to do with the moral claims made by a book?

 

What do discoveries that are clearly anachronistic say about the veracity of the same book?

 

And what the hell studies can he cite? If one makes a claim such as that, one had best back it up.

[Ouroboros]

BTW, Myth does not equal Lie. It's a part of language.

I just listened to a fascinating interview by Bill Moyers with Jeanette Winterson, and I realized something, that mythos do have a value in life, and not only that, the "midrash" tradition that the Jews have in the Torah and Christians have in the Jesus legend, we are doing it all the time in our society without thinking about it.

 

For instance, there are remade shows of old stories in the movies and in theater. The stories are mythos. We know they are not really telling a historical true story about someone, but the still tell us a story that we can connect with and get enlightened through. Take a pick. Your favorite move. Ask yourself, why do you like that movie? Why does it touch you? Is the movie a real story or is it an embellished story or even maybe just made up? Even so, the movie or the book or even music, still can touch you and transfer you into a different mindset, that is the purpose of mythos.

 

We have forgotten in our society the difference between Mythos and Logos. Fiction can have its place.

 

For a couple of weeks I've been playing Dungeons & Dragons with my kids, and I realize that these stories that you "live" in the game are also a form of "religious" experience. It has nothing to do with a supernatural belief, but stories are tools to understand things that are to hard to explain with scientific method or math. In a sense the myths are shortcuts to grasp things, without diving into advanced theories that take years to understand.

 

I see the Bible and the Jesus story this way. It's just a story, but it is a story that does have internal energy to affect people with such power that it's the largest religion today. I also see it as a meme virus that it infects and poison people because it is stiff and dogmatic. A true mythos and "religion" has to be able to change and evolve. And even sometimes be able to completely remove large parts of it's old theology, in favor of new insights. That's where most major religions fail.

 

Oops. That was a long post, completely sidetracking the thread... sorry. I will delete it if you don't want it here anymore. I blame the radio show that started my brain to ponder...

[Antlerman]

Oops. That was a long post, completely sidetracking the thread... sorry. I will delete it if you don't want it here anymore. I blame the radio show that started my brain to ponder...

Don't you dare delete it! You are singing my song. This is totally what I have been saying over in the "fundamentals" thread, and pretty much everywhere else on the site for the last 8 months. You stated it very well here. Now I see you and I paralleling each others thoughts here one again.

[Ouroboros]

We keep on coming back to that, don't we? Hehe. Saying the same things. I kind of suspected that you would.

 

I also realized that a simple thing like Techno music, or more specifically remixes, are the same thing as Midrash Mythology, or more correct, it works the same way. An old song, remixed in a new package, and that's how these mythological stories in also are rewritten to more modern style, to fit a new audience. I just finished listen to the Bill Moyer interview with Will Power (funny name ), and Will Power have a play that is based on Oedipus, but in modern setting. Will is sending a message to the audience, which I won't go into here, by using the same old story, but just in a modern world.

[Lycorth]

Now the existence of any deity is, almost per definitionem, unprovable... but this specific deity is perfectly absurd. At the very least those morontheists better explain damn good why the world is such a mess today... after all, an omniscient gawd would know what to do to make it a nice place, an omnipotent gawd wouldn't have any problems with <Picard>"make it so"</Picard>, and an omnibenevolent gawd wouldn't hesitate to do so.

 

Very nicely put, brother

 

I keep that all in mind whenever I think about Xianity, and never hesitate to bring it up if the discussion turns towards the nature of the Abrahamic god. That simple logical exercise never fails to shut 'em up every time

[Thurisaz]

I keep that all in mind whenever I think about Xianity, and never hesitate to bring it up if the discussion turns towards the nature of the Abrahamic god. That simple logical exercise never fails to shut 'em up every time

 

It's funny, isn't it? So many of them out there, and not one of them dares to answer with anything but the more-or-less veiled admission "Well, this triple-omni-stuff isn't really true..."

[Amanda]

The physical aspect deals with science and trying to explain what things are, where we came from, etc. Science now replaces the role of the myth in trying to explain our universe. The purpose was to answer questions. Was it true? Some things probably are, but not most. Science changes even today, so how true is our understanding at this point in time?

NBBTB, I have thought of this, and where are we going?

 

Now that we are intensifying abstract thinking, thanks to our imagination supposedly only recently showing evidence of existing 20-30000 years ago, our even much newer presence of more specific structure and articulation of language, introduction of inductive and deductive reasoning only a little more than a couple of millenias ago, mass communication and transportation turning the world into a global village, the human mind triples in size in the last 3 million years, what will be next?

 

I know people laugh, however, what about parapsychological abilities? As people evolve, how can we deny absolutely that a new sixth 'sense' may also be evolving? Aren't we clearly going from the physical to the mental? I'm sure it is done so gradually that one doesn't notice till it is someday identified separately and thought to have always had it... just not 'labeled'. IF we do acquire a new sense giving us new insights, what will we come to call myth of today's reality?

[NotBlinded]

I know people laugh, however, what about parapsychological abilities? As people evolve, how can we deny absolutely that a new sixth 'sense' may also be evolving? Aren't we clearly going from the physical to the mental? I'm sure it is done so gradually that one doesn't notice till it is someday identified separately and thought to have always had it... just not 'labeled'. IF we do acquire a new sense giving us new insights, what will we come to call myth of today's reality?

You know, I have often thought of that myself. Actually, I am re-listening to a CD by a Psychiatrist that incorporates her pyschic ability into her practice. I still have this little voice in my head that goes, "yeah right!" but I am trying to be open about it.

 

In reality though, animals such as dogs have this ability to "sense" what type of energy other dogs or people give off. Maybe we did too at one time or maybe we still do, but we don't pay that much attention to it. I think that we can sometimes tell when a person walks in the room that is giving off negative energy. They may not have to say or do a thing, but yet, we can get a bad feeling from that person.

 

I have been interested in this since I was a child, but then that was not something one looked into without ridicule. I caved to the masses.

[Amanda]

In reality though, animals such as dogs have this ability to "sense" what type of energy other dogs or people give off. Maybe we did too at one time or maybe we still do, but we don't pay that much attention to it. I think that we can sometimes tell when a person walks in the room that is giving off negative energy. They may not have to say or do a thing, but yet, we can get a bad feeling from that person.

NBBTB, I have read that as much as 90% of communication is covert! It could very well be more than that! That would make most of communication done at a subconscious level. As we become more mentally inclined, our brain is getting bigger, what is its future potential?

 

Further, to stay on topic... once we are in the future, looking back at today, what will we deem to be the myths of our societies?

[Ouroboros]

In reality though, animals such as dogs have this ability to "sense" what type of energy other dogs or people give off. Maybe we did too at one time or maybe we still do, but we don't pay that much attention to it. I think that we can sometimes tell when a person walks in the room that is giving off negative energy. They may not have to say or do a thing, but yet, we can get a bad feeling from that person.

I think in most cases it's smell and body language. Dogs pick up adrenalin quite far away. And you'll send the adrenalin signal when you get afraid or want to attack. That's why people fearful of dogs have more to fear from the dogs, because they're more likely to attack the person.

 

When it comes to some kind of "metaphysical" sensitivity, it's pretty out-there, but I still wouldn't discount it as impossible. Especially considering that there are experiments in the military to control equipments through a helmet that "reads" the pilots mind. The brain does have an electro-magnetic-field around it, and who knows, with a very sensitive "pick-up" someone could read emotional states.

 

NBBTB, I have read that as much as 90% of communication is covert! It could very well be more than that! That would make most of communication done at a subconscious level. As we become more mentally inclined, our brain is getting bigger, what is its future potential?

Again, I think it's more body language to explain the communication. You have some hundred (IIRC) micro expressions in your face that you can't fake. Someone trained can pick up if someone is lying or telling the truth (or perceieved truth) just by the face. Some people can have naturally adapted to recognize more of these expressions.

 

We can pick up on tone of voice too, and speed, choice of words and way of expressing themselves (if you know them well).

 

But then again, all matter and energy is pretty much interconnected.

 

Further, to stay on topic... once we are in the future, looking back at today, what will we deem to be the myths of our societies?

Do you mean in the sense of mythos (telling "truths" through a story) or just as a fiction (telling an untrue story)?

 

chuckschants: And the presence of facts and evidence speak volumes about the truth of the Bible.

 

More refined research in a variety of fields continues to validate Biblical testimonies that were once regarded as unbelievable.

Would like to hear what kind of facts, evidence and validated testimonies.

 

But whether or not the Bible is based on fact or fiction, do you believe that the Christian faith is a myth?

Did you ever answer this Vargo?

[vargo]

Then I have to wonder what is the core of Christianity? What rationale would there be for a perpetuation of the Christian faith?

[Antlerman]

Then I have to wonder what is the core of Christianity? What rationale would there be for a perpetuation of the Christian faith?

I'm on this language angle right now so I'll respond with that answer. It's a language to describe personal emotions, spiritual thoughts, cultural values, etc. People need a language to talk about things. That's what mythology offers. It's really a matter of which mythology is the best fit for the individual or the society. It's nothing to do with objective truth, but everything to do with individual and cultural truths.

[Ouroboros]

I'm on this language angle right now so I'll respond with that answer. It's a language to describe personal emotions, spiritual thoughts, cultural values, etc. People need a language to talk about things. That's what mythology offers. It's really a matter of which mythology is the best fit for the individual or the society. It's nothing to do with objective truth, but everything to do with individual and cultural truths.

 

Yup, agree.

 

Religion is a framework with its own language. Without the religious language, God and religion would die.

[vargo]

 

But whether or not the Bible is based on fact or fiction, do you believe that the Christian faith is a myth?

Did you ever answer this Vargo?

 

 

Yes I did, I took a little of what you said and notblindedbytheblight said and posted it 2 days ago, and today my post and the forum topic was removed b/c they said I was trolling and violating forum religious policy , but I did get a reposed back from the Admin/Mod.

I'll post the important part of the PM.

 

 

 

You have alluded to a number of Biblical testimonies in your posts here. For many I know who are professing Christians, the central issue is the testimony of Jesus. Christianity is a confessional faith: believers confess both their sins, for the specific act of forgiveness and repentance, and belief in the work of Christ that has forgiven and removed those sins. The specific work of Christ for this purpose is his death and resurrection. Without this, according to Scripture, there is no forgiveness of sin and no reconciliation with God.

 

I surmise from your posts that you probably consider the resurrection, and probably the entire concept of forgiveness of sin through substitution, a part of the mythical side of the Christian faith.

[Amanda]

NBBTB, I have read that as much as 90% of communication is covert! It could very well be more than that! That would make most of communication done at a subconscious level. As we become more mentally inclined, our brain is getting bigger, what is its future potential?

Again, I think it's more body language to explain the communication. You have some hundred (IIRC) micro expressions in your face that you can't fake. Someone trained can pick up if someone is lying or telling the truth (or perceieved truth) just by the face. Some people can have naturally adapted to recognize more of these expressions.

 

We can pick up on tone of voice too, and speed, choice of words and way of expressing themselves (if you know them well).

 

But then again, all matter and energy is pretty much interconnected.

HanSolo, of course we think it is all body language and such because we're limited by our present insights to our own capabilities, to suggest anything else. However, IF there is an energy field extending our obvious physical presence, and our consciousness to this becomes heightened, and maybe evolve, to be able to readily recognize this as an access to extended present capabilities eventually. Perhaps energy fields of those we are exceptionally close to emotionally connect, and remain sensitive to a 'familiarity' with each other far beyond close proximity. Perhaps the first life forming 'eyes' were some just able to perceive with this sense a little better than the others, leaders of this progressive ability, and then as the brain grew and evolved, it became more proficient and prevalent. Why can't this be a possibility with a parapsychological emergence? A short interesting article here.

 

Further, to stay on topic... once we are in the future, looking back at today, what will we deem to be the myths of our societies?

Do you mean in the sense of mythos (telling "truths" through a story) or just as a fiction (telling an untrue story)?

Probably both, don't you think? Probably the myths of how each countries' own history portrays themself as the good one and their enemies as the bad ones. How they portray their own country as having the force of "God" with them. Also, perhaps how we think we are each totally separate, and therefore place blame on others for their crimes without taking any responsibility ourself as a community. Maybe we will see in the future the extent our ego is taken now, was just a myth. Maybe such shows as All In The Family (Archie Bunker) and Married With Children will be perceived as typical families of those eras, instead of allegories to challenge some people's mentalities of that time. Who knows what myths are now and may evolve from our present day life?

[NotBlinded]

HanSolo, of course we think it is all body language and such because we're limited by our present insights to our own capabilities, to suggest anything else. However, IF there is an energy field extending our obvious physical presence, and our consciousness to this becomes heightened, and maybe evolve, to be able to readily recognize this as an access to extended present capabilities eventually. Perhaps energy fields of those we are exceptionally close to emotionally connect, and remain sensitive to a 'familiarity' with each other far beyond close proximity. Perhaps the first life forming 'eyes' were some just able to perceive with this sense a little better than the others, leaders of this progressive ability, and then as the brain grew and evolved, it became more proficient and prevalent. Why can't this be a possibility with a parapsychological emergence? A short interesting article here.

You know, I am really into watching The Dog Whisperer. This show has convinced me that dogs can indeed pick up on this energy. Yes, the body language plays a role in it, but if you just go through the motions by acting the body language, the dog senses this and will react accordingly.

 

Last night, he went into a pen with an extremely aggresive dog. He never looked at the dog and turned his back on him and sat down on the dogs bed. The dog never did a thing...he layed down beside him. The other dogs and the man that the dog had attacked walked up to the outside of the cage and one of the other dogs started barking and acting aggressive. The one in the cage never moved or looked at the dogs or the guy. It was amazing actually. This dog knew there was someone in his cage that wasn't afraid of him. The guy even said later that the dog was this to attacking him. He told the other guy (the one that the dog attacked) that he is going to have to change the energy he projects towards the dog. At the end, this guy and the other dogs and the dog that attacked were all walking together. Good stuff...I love that show.

 

Anyway...

 

The site you linked to says the same thing that this psychiatrist says also. She said that she is more receptive when she is in the shower because that is where she is the most relaxed. I think it is interested that the brainwaves change from beta to alpha when someone picks up on something. I think it would be cool to be able to access this, but then again, it's scary at the same time!

 

Then I have to wonder what is the core of Christianity? What rationale would there be for a perpetuation of the Christian faith?

I have just read Is Jesus God? and it goes into ways that the faith can still survive and flourish even with the understanding that he was not God anymore than any of us. He just understood that God wasn't just out there somewhere...God is within everyone and everything and is everywhere. Knowing this, we can get closer to God itself than worshiping the messenger. This is my words here. Now, I'll put a little more insight here from one of Michael Morwood's (the author) speaking engagements that looks at "Christianity in the modern age.":

 

Jesus of Nazareth emerges, and God can be revealed as infused in the life of this man. Jesus tells us by seeing God in ourselves, in our fellow man, and in all of creation that we can realize God; bring God to us; further live IN God.

 

The life of Jesus is the story of the human condition...a dream crushed. Like other life challenges like leprosy or blindness, the dream of Jesus is seemingly failed. This is the message of the cross...How could one still believe when life has brought you to crucifixion?! Despite this, the suffering Jesus remains steadfast and commends his life to God.

 

Following the life of Jesus, early Christians had an "AHA!" experience. They realized that Jesus lived in Love, lived in God, and God lived IN Him. Therefore "through" Jesus we could see God living in US. This was the message of Pentecost. Christians took seriously that people could see in Christians what Christians saw in Jesus. Baptism was an acknowledgement and commitment to live like Jesus...they were the Body of Christ. The sacrament was not a cleansing of Original Sin, but a celebration of the Christian image and imagination of Jesus and God.

 

The challenge to the church is to re-image Jesus. Break free of the judgmental Jesus. The challenge to the hierarchy is to then answer the question: Is Jesus really God? When Jesus is a Human story, not a God story, we can stop thinking of judgements and images of the resurrection and whether it really happened. We are challenged instead to, along with Jesus "Die into God's fullness".

 

It seems to Morwood that the Church today has rather "hijacked" the universe. Scriptures can speak from the ground up rather than down from heaven. We can revisit the scriptures from a contemporary view. And modern cosmology has effectively offered us a view of God IN the universe, Jesus IN God, and Jesus In us.

I bolded the area that is extremely important, IMO.

 

From SJA's Hospitality Hall - Michael Morwood

 

If they are brave enough, they can order the book here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/082451891...ce&n=283155

 

It is an awesome read. He was forced to resign from the priesthood in order to write this book and it was banned in Australia, where he lives.

 

Here is another review from the book:

 

For Morwood, the whole world is graced, and revelation

 

"...should be anchored in the belief that God is present and active everywhere and in all people, at all times. (50)"

 

Revelation comes through and within human experience, reflection and increasing knowledge: it is not limited to the Bible, Jesus or the Church.

 

In Jesus "the Spirit of God comes to its clearest, most wonderful human expression." He announces the reign of God in our lives. Salvation is to be concerned with identifying God's presence and allowing it to have expression in our lives.

 

To follow Jesus is to be truly catholic. To be catholic is to be engaged in the world and immersed in the questions and issues concerning the meaning of human existence and human connectedness with the Transcendent.

 

This 'new story' has a profound effect on worship and ministry. Christian worship will celebrate the life and teaching of Jesus "who reveals to us the wonder of God's presence in all people." Ministry is being "with people in their experience of being vulnerable, broken, joyful, needy, searching and questioning." The ministry is not there to control people, and the Church in any case has no monopoly on truth.

From here: http://www.sof-in-australia.org/isjesusgod.htm

 

Dang...I just keep finding more and more on this! This is another interview that will answer you question:

 

Rachael Kohn: So what remains, Michael, if Jesus is not God, then what is the faith of the Christian?

 

Michael Morwood: What remains is that I as a Christian gather with other Christians around the story of Jesus of Nazareth, because for us more than any other story, here is a man who lived a human existence and he lived it in such a way that the people who knew him were able to proclaim very boldly We have seen the reality of God come to this ability in this human life.

 

Now for me that’s a wonderful statement to make about a human life. And then Pentecost follows that up with the statement that what we’ve seen in Jesus, it’s like Jesus is a mirror for us, so that the mind and the heart and the very spirit that we saw in him, we believe as Christians, operates in us. It’s our task now to live human existence the way we say we saw it in Jesus.

 

So that his mind and heart and spirit lives in us. We are to be the body, if you like, of Christ now. So it’s our task to make visible the reign of God; we believe in the God that Jesus believed in, so we’ve got to take the responsibility for that.

 

So on the one hand I see the message of Jesus as a wonderful affirmation of humankind’s connectedness with the mystery that we call God, and Christianity names the place where we meet this. It’s met in the depths of our humanness, it’s met in the everyday events of loving, of being generous, of sharing and just simply being good, decent human beings. And that’s a message that people need today. You know, in the world in which we live, if we believe in a God, I believe more and more we need this message of Jesus, that affirms and names for us the presence of this God in our midst.

 

Then the other side of that is to say Well, if you believe that then, you take responsibility for it, and you make visible this reign of God that you talk about. So do it, it’s not just about worshipping Jesus as God, or worshipping God, but it’s being today what we believe Jesus was. I think that’s the great challenge: will we live as he lived?

 

From here: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s317396.htm

 

It is my opinion that Christianity would be much better with this understanding. It would do what it should have done to begin with. Bring people closer to God...not to put God out there somewhere where God is only accessible through Jesus. Jesus' teachings have the possiblity to bring us closer to understanding God if we do not worship the teacher, but revere, and learn from him.

[Ouroboros]

Amanda,

 

Yeah, I don't hold it as impossible that some people could sense the other persons feelings. Like I said before, they have done experiments in machines reading thoughts. The military have done it to replace the old fashioned control in the cockpit. And also there are some experiments of a helmet that reads the images we see, probing the visual cortex. The resolution isn't too good yet, but it's coming. Taking this an extra level, eventually they could make a "mind reader" that is some couple feet away, say it's built in into the panel of the helicopter. And lastly, if it is possible to make a "mind reader" machine, it would be possible that a some humans or animals with some extra sensitive brain could pick up signals outside our five senses. And it wouldn't be supernatural, but completely within the parameters of physics.