How Would You Answer This

[Amanda]

You know, I am really into watching The Dog Whisperer. This show has convinced me that dogs can indeed pick up on this energy. Yes, the body language plays a role in it, but if you just go through the motions by acting the body language, the dog senses this and will react accordingly.

 

NBBTB, I've also heard of a guy that could do that with horses. It showed him handling horses with behavioral problems, like what you mentioned about the Dog Whisperer. He was also filmed approaching wild horses in nature, and was actually walking with them and petting them in a very short time!

 

BTW, I loved the rest of that post too.

 

HanSolo, so you admit machines have already been documented as doing this. Why is it that people get discredited for this? The possibility of alterior motives? Maybe we could use the machines to tell if they're lying or what? I have heard that the government takes it serious enough to do their own private investigations.

[Ouroboros]

HanSolo, so you admit machines have already been documented as doing this. Why is it that people get discredited for this? The possibility of alterior motives? Maybe we could use the machines to tell if they're lying or what? I have heard that the government takes it serious enough to do their own private investigations.

Yes, there are documented experiments.

 

Anyone knows there are EEG, ECG ... machines that read heart, brain, nerve signals today. Without probing under the skin. The problem with the mind reading machines are the resolution. They don't pick up the signals detailed enough, and also the problem is they have a hard time figure out exactly what certain signals or patterns really mean. For instance, is the abstract image of a dog the same between two individuals? Or how is language and words processed? It's just a matter of time before those problems are solved. They need faster computers and better technology. Probably when quantum computers starts to be developed we'll see mind reading machines in hospitals, military and maybe other applications. Maybe we'll even have a mind-interface for our computers...

 

Here's some links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4715327.stm

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7304

 

The reason why the thought of "Telepathy" is discredited is because it has been traditionally linked to supernatural phenomenon, and hence in a naturalists worldview doesn't exist. But if it can be explained with natural means, then it's not supernatural anymore, and quite possible.

 

Another, and rather intriguing, thought is how all matter is possibly connected in the quantum world. If Loop-Quantum-Gravity theory is true, we are all interconnected through a braided space. A sentence like "everything is one" becomes true. Everything is chained together.

[Amanda]

Another, and rather intriguing, thought is how all matter is possibly connected in the quantum world. If Loop-Quantum-Gravity theory is true, we are all interconnected through a braided space. A sentence like "everything is one" becomes true. Everything is chained together.

 

HanSolo, Isn't it intriguing that many spiritual teachers, I suppose starting with Pantheism and Goddess Mother Earth, have been trying to progress this oneness idea millenias ago! I suppose it was evident to them by seeing that everything was so interrelated, even before they really understood the ecosystem concept more fully. Could it be that just the food chain gave them insight into this?

[NotBlinded]

Another, and rather intriguing, thought is how all matter is possibly connected in the quantum world. If Loop-Quantum-Gravity theory is true, we are all interconnected through a braided space. A sentence like "everything is one" becomes true. Everything is chained together.

 

HanSolo, Isn't it intriguing that many spiritual teachers, I suppose starting with Pantheism and Goddess Mother Earth, have been trying to progress this oneness idea millenias ago! I suppose it was evident to them by seeing that everything was so interrelated, even before they really understood the ecosystem concept more fully. Could it be that just the food chain gave them insight into this?

Oh...I am reading a book now called Saving the Savior that goes into something that I never thought about. It also speaks of something along the lines of what Hans said above. This oneness becomes evident at a quantum level. Although, this may be separate from mind or consciousness.

 

Recently, I have been looking into the idea that this oneness appears to have intelligence or a consciousness of some sort. This author uses Heisenberg (sp?) as an example to illustrate just the opposite of what I was thinking. I was shocked until I understood what he meant. Heisenberg said something along the lines of this (paraphrase):

 

It is apparent that there is no consciousness in physics and chemistry and quantum mechanics shows no evidence of having consciousness.

 

This went against what I thought...but I thought wrong. The author goes on to say that if the brain is basically chemical processes and consciousness is not in chemistry, where does consciousness come from? That struck me hard! He goes on to talk about a Universal Mind that we are all a part of.

 

To me, this seems like a catch 22. If there is intelligence at the quantum level or in physics or chemistry, this would show that this Intelligence is actually in everything and that people would have to admit that there is consciousness at rudamentary levels in order to form into a higher form of consciousness. And, if this intelligence is not in everything, then that means that we cannot have consciousness without accessing a Consciousness that is everywhere. Sounds like a paradox, but if we look at this Universal Mind being the only way for anything to be conscious or existing at all, then it is more like it flows trough everything, but is not in it, so-to-speak. Fascinating!

[Ouroboros]

Consciousness could be said to be a metaphysical reality. Think about Microsoft Windows, does it exist? If it does, how does it exist? Where does it exist? When does it exist? The processing of interpreting the basic structure and data causes a meta-level of existence, above the real physical things that are the cause of its existence. There very well could be a higher level of consciousness in the universe as a result of process of quantum events. It would make us to mere cells in the brain of the Universe-God.

[NotBlinded]

Consciousness could be said to be a metaphysical reality. Think about Microsoft Windows, does it exist? If it does, how does it exist? Where does it exist? When does it exist? The processing of interpreting the basic structure and data causes a meta-level of existence, above the real physical things that are the cause of its existence. There very well could be a higher level of consciousness in the universe as a result of process of quantum events. It would make us to mere cells in the brain of the Universe-God.

Ohhhhh...I like it!

 

But, are you saying that quantum processes caused this meta-level indirectly? I don't know if I should say this or not, but the processes for windows were created so there could be a windows. Oh man...what did I just step into here...be easy on me!

[Amanda]

What I have gleaned from studying the scriptures the way I have... God/consciousness has been presented as a metaphor to multiple personalities! We think we are separate by the illusion or mindset that we have come to "believe", giving individual egos/alters, yet really all things are one entity.

 

Once a friend and I had the opportunity to be talking to a person with DID, and they were expressing how much they hated this person (one of their alters) and how they were going to set them up to drink drano! My friend frantically tried to tell them that what they did to that person, they did to themself! (Sound familiar? "Whatever you do to the least of these, you do unto me.") They just couldn't see it but promised to work at getting along better with this "person".

 

Some people with DID also have alters that are animals and even trees! Each alter often has a unique function for the 'whole' person, and sets up an amnesic barrier between themselves. In the above situation it was the 'protector' part that was angry with the 'peace maker' part, because the 'peace maker' was seen as 'too weak'. Sometimes they have co-consciousness between themselves, which lends itself better for recovery, and sometimes they don't. When they don't, that causes the situation called 'losing time'. It is a very interesting dynamic to see at work, especially in the process called 'switching'. Yet consistently and very intricately within their head... they all live together perceived as separate, yet simultaneously. Amazing!

 

As far as us being cells in the brains of the universe, could we be considered the many members of the one body? This consciousness slowly awakening from within us, as the head, and we are then therefore its body?

[Ouroboros]

But, are you saying that quantum processes caused this meta-level indirectly? I don't know if I should say this or not, but the processes for windows were created so there could be a windows. Oh man...what did I just step into here...be easy on me!

I would create this meta-level directly. It would make the Universe-God a result of the process, not the cause of it. The same way as our consciousness is a result of the processing in our mind rather than our mind exists because of the consciousness.

 

Windows was created intentionally, and designed, but yet, when it's on a CD or a HD when the computer is off, does Windows exist at that moment? You can't use it and it's not in effect without the processor and the power to be turned on.

 

 

they all live together perceived as separate, yet simultaneously. Amazing!

Question: DID is the same as MPD?

 

I find it very interesting too that people can have multiple personalities in the same brain. It must be that it switches between different memories and areas in the brain somehow.

 

As far as us being cells in the brains of the universe, could we be considered the many members of the one body? This consciousness slowly awakening from within us, as the head, and we are then therefore its body?

It's possible. Considering that we are multi-celled bodies ourselves. We don't think or know what each cell is doing right now in our body, and yet our existence is depending on them to do their job. It seems like Evolution is leading life to become more and more complex, and also the mind, intelligence, awareness and consciousness. So another possibility is that eventually the consciousness will grow, and multi-consciousness will take form and eventually this will become "God". Just different prospects.

 

The word God is then only a symbol for these ideas that are or will come to be. Words are only carriers of concepts and ideas, the same way as mythos. (Just to bring back the topic to it's original question.) Words are not more or less true than mythos is.

[NotBlinded]

But, are you saying that quantum processes caused this meta-level indirectly? I don't know if I should say this or not, but the processes for windows were created so there could be a windows. Oh man...what did I just step into here...be easy on me!

I would create this meta-level directly. It would make the Universe-God a result of the process, not the cause of it. The same way as our consciousness is a result of the processing in our mind rather than our mind exists because of the consciousness.

 

Windows was created intentionally, and designed, but yet, when it's on a CD or a HD when the computer is off, does Windows exist at that moment? You can't use it and it's not in effect without the processor and the power to be turned on.

 

Once we are born, we have access to this consciousness (or even before, I guess) because it is already there. We (the processor) can't use it and it's not in effect, for us, until we are born, or turned on. (I'm not considering the before and afterlife).

 

Does windows cease to exist when everyone turns off their machine or is it always in waiting? It doesn't cease to exist, IMO, it is always accessible given the right switch (metaphor of switching thought processes in order to understand that which can't be seen (understood) until the switch is activated). So...I would say that Windows doesn't exist when the computer is turned off...it's just waiting to be acknowledged. This paragraph refers more the Universal Mind directly and the previous one refers to our consciousness.

[Amanda]

Question: DID is the same as MPD?

HanSolo... my apologies. Yes, DID, Disociative Identity Disorder is the new name for MPD, Multiple Personality Disorder.

I find it very interesting too that people can have multiple personalities in the same brain. It must be that it switches between different memories and areas in the brain somehow.

As I understand, it is usually when someone is in isolation and/or abused, starting usually before 6 or 7 years old, they first start being a pretend person. Next they create amnesia in the state of being before altered, to embody their pain separate from the core essence of themself.

 

Suppose some girl is being molested or abused by her father, yet when she shows up at the dinner table, she better act like nothing is wrong or she will get beat again. So, when she is at the table, she pretends she is someone else and the prior abuse didn't happen, and probably again when she goes to school to pretend she is the 'school girl' which is different than the abused child at home. Some people just become highly fragmented, with the fluidity of information integrating to varying degrees, yet some people are evenntually able to establish total barriers of information flowing to these other personalities, forming DID as they get older. They often find this coping skill establishing separate personalities with different roles to function as the 'host', to survive and perform without the encumberment of the memories of abuse. One MPD person I met said that she was so good at it, she could create a new personality when she stubbed her toe, so as to not feel the pain!

 

Some anger management disorders, as I understand, do a form of this also, in that they don't deal with their anger, and just pretend it didn't happen, creating an amnesic barrier to it because they lack effective coping skills. They disociate from their problems so they can survive. However, they have unknowingly created an alter via their subconscious, that gets triggered and explodes into control and oblivious to their nice side. A Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde scenario.

 

Unfortunately, many churches have a tendency to do exorcisms on these people, which studies have shown is about the worst thing you can do! It seems the method most popular for recovery right now is 'reconciling' the parts, so that information can begin to freely flow to all parts, therefore able to mediate life's problems in a more effective manner. IMO, reconciliation must start within us, and to then include amongst us too.

The word God is then only a symbol for these ideas that are or will come to be. Words are only carriers of concepts and ideas, the same way as mythos. (Just to bring back the topic to it's original question.) Words are not more or less true than mythos is.

HanSolo, I just want to say, mostly in regards to another post of yours on this thread, that there is a well respected theory that consciousness created matter, and not vice versa. However, we are creating consciousness too, now. If you will look here, you will see more of this theory. Although, he substantiates what you were saying too, here is an excerpt I've taken from the interview of this scientist, Amit Goswami, that suggests consciousness created matter...

 

However, these early works, in spite of supporting the spiritual aspect of human beings, all basically held on to the material view of the world nevertheless. In other words, they did not challenge the material realists' view that everything is made up of matter. That view was never put to any challenge by any of these early books. In fact, my book was the first one which challenged it squarely and which was still based on a rigorous explication in scientific terms. In other words, the idea that consciousness is the ground of being, of course, has existed in psychology, as transpersonal psychology, but outside of transpersonal psychology no tradition of science and no scientist has seen it so clearly.

It was my good fortune to recognize it within quantum physics, to recognize that all the paradoxes of quantum physics can be solved if we accept consciousness as the ground of being. So that was my unique contribution and, of course, this has paradigm-shifting potential because now we can truly integrate science and spirituality.

 

Anyway, perhaps one of the myths we will discover about ourselves now, in the future, is that we thought we were completely separate and lived in a material world... perhaps just like we use to think the world was flat.

 

 

 

It is my opinion that Christianity would be much better with this understanding. It would do what it should have done to begin with. Bring people closer to God...not to put God out there somewhere where God is only accessible through Jesus. Jesus' teachings have the possiblity to bring us closer to understanding God if we do not worship the teacher, but revere, and learn from him.

 

You have such wonderful insights in your posts!