V For Vendetta

[vampyre]

I saw the movie today and I have to say that I am very impressed. I liked that the theme of the movie was that "People should not fear their governments, Governments should fear their people."

 

Then again I am an Anarchist, for lack of a better term.

[godlessgrrl]

Just saw it last night.

 

WOW.

 

I didn't find it depressing at all. It was too interesting and the theme of rebellion was too... well, oddly encouraging and hopeful.

 

Plus the Anglophile in me appreciated the Guy Fawkes motif.

[Fweethawt]

I think that the next time Zoe comes here suggesting a movie, book or whatever, I'm going to go out and rent it/sign it out, fast-forward/flip through it, then come here and bitch about it.

 

[Fweethawt]

 

Bite me bitch!

 

Watch BUFFY. muahahahaha The show, not the movie.

I never could sit through an entire episode of Buffy. If that's the sort of show you enjoy, then no wonder you're clueless when it comes to V.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fweethawt]

Also...I saw a movie review (not a professional one) titled: "P is for Poo Poo." bwahahahahaha

Professional or not, you'd probably be hard-pressed to find anyone that would even bother reviewing an episode of Buffy.

[AtheistMommy]

I never could sit through an entire episode of Buffy. If that's the sort of show you enjoy, then no wonder you're clueless when it comes to V.

 

 

shut up...buffy rocks. I can't help it that i prefer being entertained than preached to. Buffy has Sex, violence, quirky humor, interesting relationships, interesting character arcs, etc. I can't help it that I like things that are quirky and funny more than things that are preachy, pedantic and depressing.

 

 

Also...I saw a movie review (not a professional one) titled: "P is for Poo Poo." bwahahahahaha

 

I'm not very fond of Buffy myself. I did like "Charmed" for a while but that too got boring quickly. I think its because they started getting stupid. A bit like Xina did. The last one I watched was "Supernatural" which is stupid upfront so there aren't any big surprises, but the actors are very cute.

 

I guess there might be something to not liking "V" and liking "Buffy the vampire layer"

[Fweethawt]

I guess there might be something to not liking "V" and liking "Buffy the vampire layer"

Oh boy. Zoe is going to have a blast with that typo.

 

 

We are like fucking trekkies...don't mess with us.

 

Yeah. And they're dorks, too. They probably didn't like V, either.

[AtheistMommy]

I guess there might be something to not liking "V" and liking "Buffy the vampire layer"

Oh boy. Zoe is going to have a blast with that typo.

 

 

LOL! Yeah I bet she will. LOL! I just noticed it. I'm sorry, its late, I'm tired, blah blah blah. I know you don't want to hear it.

[The Paineful Truth]

Zoe wrote:

I don't fucking CARE. A cop out to what exactly?

 

I'm sorry, I can't respond. My neck snapped between the first and second sentence. Nice rationalization for head in the sand though.

 

Atheist Mommy wrote:

(nothing) ? Devastated I suppose.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

I FINALLY saw this film. I've been dying to see it since it came out in the theatres. I actually WENT to the theatre to see it, but when I got there, the MovieFone.com time for the showing was WRONG!!! I ended up seeing Ice Age 2 instead.

 

So now that I've seen it, I have to say that I'm sorely disappointed. Sure, good message and all, but come on. It could have been a lot better. It was no Matrix. I mean who here didn't KNOW that it was V that captured Evey and tortured her from the second the bag was thrown over her head? It was so obvious with his pink face glaring from the eye hole of the mask, the voice that says "I gotcha!”, the interrogators and everyone else that talks to her wearing gloves…and the list goes on. I did question it once or twice because the interrogator seems to look a lot like McReady(sp?), but then I just decided V was good at disguise.

 

I will probably have to sit down and watch it again. It really didn’t do much for me the first time around. There seemed to be no real flow to the story. I did love the bit about the “Godless Americans” though. Seems a little ironic since I’m always hearing how liberal the rest of the world is versus the U.S. We have far more censorship and far more radical right wing fundy nutjobs. Or am I wrong? Maybe this was supposed to be so far in the future that we finally succeeded in overthrowing the religious right? But then the whole thing apparently collapsed. So what does that say? Are the Wachowski Brothers actually fundamentalists in disguise?

[LosingMyReligion]

I think V was black. Their government killed everyone who wasn't: White, straight, and Christian.

 

So that pretty much eliminated 99% of the rest of society.

 

So he may not have been gay but he might have been black/asian/or other...

[woodsmoke]

I am in no way personally responsible for what any large monolithic organization does. (and me not carrying signs and protesting and signing petitions etc. has fucking NOTHING to do with what's going on. It's so narcissistic to believe one person effects everyth change...if they hadn't stepped up, someone else would have, because the world was ready.)

 

Apathy is such a cop-out.

 

What you call apathy I call honesty.

 

Some folks just don't have what it takes to be "moral crusaders." What's more, there are a few of us who *gasp!* don't want to.

 

This may be the only life we get, and it's way too fucking short to spend trying to make everyone else happy/free at the expense of my own happiness and freedom--especially considering most people don't want my "help." If you disagree, that's your perogative, but don't pretend as if you have some kind of moral high ground from which to stand and denounce us.

 

<snippage of movie review>

 

Heh, fair enough. Really, I think V's following is its greatest obstacle. These folks laud the film as being the greatest thing since humanity learned to use tools, and in doing so set an impossible standard for it. It's a decent flick, sure, but it's really not the momentous or revolutionary event they make it out to be. Ultimately, it's a movie based on a comic book about the nature of governments, modern society and freedom and how these concepts work together or don't.

 

I think that's got a lot to do with why I liked it. It wasn't a rallying cry against the "ebil gubbermint," it was a modern-day reminder of everything ever said by the founding fathers--admonishing vigilance against the inherent potential threats to personal freedom posed by an organized government.

 

Of course, it also helps that my pride in my vocabulary and mastery of the English language quite possibly reaches unhealthy levels. I absolutely LOVED V's speech in the alley specifically because of the word-play and alliteration.

[HadouKen24]

The way I see it is that if I'm going to see a hero movie based on a comic book, I'm not going there for sophisticated characterization or subtlety. I'm there to see a superhero kick ass. Its "heavy-handedness," to me, is just another aspect of that. V is more charming than anyone else, more clever, better at killing, better at PR, etc.

 

It's the sheer theatricality that I enjoyed, not the message.

[The Paineful Truth]

I think V was black. Their government killed everyone who wasn't: White, straight, and Christian.

 

Now that's the outside the box thinking we need. D'you think of that yourself or see it somewhere?

 

Zoe wrote:

I don't fucking CARE. A cop out to what exactly?

 

You can say you don't care but that's diametrically opposed to your wanting to know how you'd copped out. You didn't address it the first time so I just thought I'd bring it up again.

 

Seriously though...we're on the exact same fucking page here. And it's nice to see I'm not alone.

 

As Gandhi said:

"There is no god higher than truth.

If you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."

 

Some folks just don't have what it takes to be "moral crusaders." What's more, there are a few of us who *gasp!* don't want to.

 

What "cop out" means (for Zoe and all his sycophants) is that you refuse responsibility for your own freedom (and are usually the biggest whiners when you loose it).

 

Hoooo ahhhh

[AtheistMommy]

 

Atheist Mommy wrote:

(nothing) ? Devastated I suppose.

 

 

What? What I'm I suppose to be writing about?

 

 

LMAO! Actually AM, a lot of fans of the show called it "buffy the vampire layer" I thought your reference was on purpose...cause buffy slept with two different relatively notorious (inside the context of the buffyverse) vampires...plus she let dracula bite her that time and liked it.

 

Yeah, that might have been a slip of the finger. My husband calls it that.

 

I was actually referring to the preference. There's a big difference between Buffy and V. I can see how someone who likes a show like Buffy would be so in love with V. Which is why I said, there could be a connection.

 

I'm not trying to attack you, just so you know.

[AtheistMommy]

 

hehe...fair enough...I'm a raving lunatic...but you knew that already...

 

Yeah while they are both comic book heros...they are VERY different styles and approaches. And I tend to be easily bored if there aren't a lot of one liners and asskicking hehe

 

 

Exactly.

[The Paineful Truth]

Zoe wrote (and I do apologize for referring to you as a "his". I'll try to keep the round peg in the round hole from now on):

B. You prove by this statement that you know nothing about me. You haven't read my post history, you don't have the first clue what i"m about. Well let me spell it out for you...I'm for FREEDOM, I'm just not fighting for yours. Offensive? Maybe. Mercenary? Probably. Practical? Yes.

 

While you're out there scrambling around fighting and protesting and basically wearing a big ole red neon sign that says: "Hey government here I am, and I'm here to fight you, stop oppressing me." I'm worrrying about me and mine.

 

If and when shit goes down, it will be me and mine I will be concerned about...not the rest of the fucking world. So go on, carry on with your causes and your rallying and your moral outcries and outrage. Get people in a big large fucking group and change the world...go right the fuck ahead. But my life is my life...and whether I were to be enslaved by a corrupt government or by someone like you to fight for people I don't even know...I would still be a slave to a will other than my own.

 

You cannot and will not draft me to fight in your little army of social protest. And you can put whatever label you want on me...but at the end of the day...the truth is...you're just pissed you couldn't make me do what YOU wanted.

 

I probably could have been much more succinct...so I'll summarize it here, so you don't miss it:

 

I don't refuse responsibility for my own freedom. I refuse responsibility for yours.

 

So to summarize your sucintness, you're an anarchist (which is what V was in the comic, er graphic novel.) But that's not very practical, and I am for looking out for number one as much or maybe more than you. And you know very little about me. I would never either enslave or draft you, merely point out your moral irresponsibility--which is what it is unless you truly don't care if you and your family are enslaved or worse. What are you going to tell your children? "I'm sorry kids, but this is the price we have to pay for being completely independent."

 

You say I'm pissed because you won't let me make you into something you're not. That's waaay off base. But I don't understand the picture you're painting unless you are an anarchist--which is another word for an ultra-idealist. I see jigsaw pieces from 3 or 4 different puzzles.

 

At the risk of setting myself up for more name calling, I will interject another applicable quote:

 

We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.

Benjamin Franklin

[woodsmoke]

The way I see it is that if I'm going to see a hero movie based on a comic book, I'm not going there for sophisticated characterization or subtlety. I'm there to see a superhero kick ass. Its "heavy-handedness," to me, is just another aspect of that. V is more charming than anyone else, more clever, better at killing, better at PR, etc.

 

It's the sheer theatricality that I enjoyed, not the message.

 

Heh, this is also an excellent point. Though to nowhere near the same extent, I think V was similar to Pirates of the Caribbean in this; both films are totally and deliberately over-the-top and damn proud of it. There's a special place in my heart for flicks like that.

 

Heh...now that was just dorky to me...it felt too much like authors who try to hard to be literary instead of just telling a good story. But then again...I have to remember this is based on a comic book and some level of cheesiness is to be expected. I think what really hurts it is...it's based on a comic book, but then at the same time it's trying to be "deep" and "serious" and it just doesn't play for me.

 

Yeah, that does clash a bit. Still, as an avid (fellow) fan of Buffy, you of all people must understand how suffocating amounts of cheese can make a show impossibly endearing.

[The Paineful Truth]

I'm not going to buck the government or try to change the world. I have no need to.

 

So when the government comes to haul you an your family off to the gas chambers, you gonna just say, " Well, whatever." And if I happend to be outside with an Uzi, you'd say, "No, I don't want your fucking help!"

 

By pointing out my "moral irresponsibility" you seek to change my view so that it more closely resembles your own.

 

On this particular issue yes. but I'm not going to hold a gun to your head like a corrupt government will. And, if truth be told, other issues as well, and I have a history of listening to others and modifying my beliefs accordingly when I have been out reasoned.

 

V was a terrorist.

 

AGGGG.

 

I believe I made a good case before the he was a revolutionary not a terrorist who intentionally target civilians. V targeted corrupt, genocidal mass murderers. If Hitler had won the war, would someone who sought justice against him, Goebbels, Himmler's SS et al by murdering them be categorized as a terrorist??? I think not and they should not.

 

If i were to follow YOUR way...I would no longer be following MY way.

 

What is this "your" and "my" stuff when it comes to self-defense. It must be our responsibility if you're talking about being up against anything backed by government "authority".

 

If you aren't an anarchist, how do you envision the scenario when the government starts picking off people like you one at a time? In the 20th Century, governments murdered 100 to 180 million of their own people--many more than all the civilian and military casualties of war. All you've told me about what you believe is the equivalent of head in the sand. I truly don't get it.

[woodsmoke]

"So what now?"

 

"Personally? I want to slay the dragon."

 

 

All you've told me about what you believe is the equivalent of head in the sand. I truly don't get it.

 

If we're burying our heads in the sand, it's only so we don't have to hear you preach.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not you understand it. Just don't let that motivate you to try to change it.

[woodsmoke]

Alas, I'm afraid my Buffy-fu isn't that strong. In fact I've probably seen a lot more of Angel than of Buffy, though I wouldn't be averse to sitting down and periodically watching the entirety of both series. If Blizzard didn't already own it, I'd put my soul in a box and mail it to Joss Whedon for his birthday.

[Fweethawt]

Who is that green dude with the red eyes and horns?

 

Or isn't that character even in Buffy?

[Fweethawt]

he can read people's destinies when they sing karaoke in his bar.

 

You're serious, aren't you?

[The Paineful Truth]

You call be everything from a right winger looking for the second coming to a left-wingnut and accuse me of conspiracy theory and kitchen sinkism. All I hear is disdain while screaming over and over that you don't give a shit.

 

What's really irrational is that I'm the one you see as a threat. Like I could reach through the computer and make you do something against your will, even if I wanted to.

 

As it turns out, I do understand you.

[Ex-COG]

Also, I don't know that I would call myself an anarchist. Because your average modern anarchist doesn't even understand what anarchy IS, made obvious by the fact that they all wear the same outfits and organize into little groups. They want an opposite government, not no government. They dont' want freedom, they want everyone to do things they way they want. (while I'm out only for me and mine, I don't feel it's my duty, responsibility, moral obligation, or even right to try to change other people to seeing the world as I see it...however having said that I DO feel compelled to state my position clearly.)

Zoe, are you a Strike The Root gal? They are a "no government" anarchist site. Plus, once you mentioned a book, How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World", which was mentioned somewhere on this site. That's what made me make the connection.

 

Back to the movie--c'mon folks, it was just a movie. Some of us found it inspiring, others boring. I liked it, but I understand Zoe's points about it being heavy-handed (I hadn't even thought of the Stockholm Syndrome). It probably would have been much more powerful if it had allowed us to pull the message from the action itself. As to whether or not to join the "fight"; while I might give a donation to an activist group I like, or sign a few petitions, I'd never follow in the footsteps of V and commit acts of violence. I probably wouldn't even march in a parade waving a placard; I pretty much think demonstrations are a thing of the past, and wouldn't work now to change people. The internet is the medium of change in today's world.

 

Lay it to rest. Why keep going back and forth over it?