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Apollo And Jesus


Llwellyn
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Apollo is the sun God, who vanquishes evil by shining his light into dark places.

 

apollo.jpg

 

The retribution of Apollo upon moral beings is always creative, although it may hurt like hell to be punished by him. The way to unite with Apollo is to yield yourself to his retribution, and cooperate synergistically to be transfigured by it. This means, doing right, making restitution for your wrong where possible, and having repentant grief for your evil. The divine ascent into the eternal world is an infinite ascent as you experience moral growth and pass the Apollonic retribution onto others. As you unite with Apollo, it progressively takes the form of a sacred dance. Nobody lives forever; eternal life is different from living forever. :thanks:

 

Jesus is the third person of the Trinity, the "Holy/Loving" Yawheh of the Christian Bible.

 

pnw100.jpg

 

The retribution of Jesus upon moral beings is always destructive rather than creative ("wrath"). The way to be pardoned of Jesus's destruction ("justification") is to believe ("faith") that Jesus is an omnipotent destroyer and that Jesus self-destructed on the cross ("atonement"). If you believe these things, you can live forever. If you don't, Jesus will operate destructive retribution upon you forever. :HaHa:

 

Which presentation of God is more plausible? If Jesus exists, does that mean that Apollo does not exist, or vice versa? If both can exist, which is more ultimate and powerful? Can Apollo radiate his (creative) retribution upon Jesus, or will Jesus radiate his (destructive) retribution upon Apollo? If there is a battle of the Titans, who overpowers the other? :Hmm:

 

Why, did Europe give up its Paganism in order to convert to the Christian religion? :Doh:

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a good point here would be that Apollo and Aten share "sun-god" status. Constantine, the Roman emperor who first favored Christianity, was a sun worshipper and patron of Apollo. Basically, Apollo and the risen Jesus share the same model of deity.

 

identification of "God" with the Sun goes back further than that. The world's first real monotheist was the Egyptian pharoah Akenaton (c. 1400 BCE). He said that the Sun was the god Aten.

 

in the history of Israel, they were largely "henotheistic" throughout biblical times... meaning that they believed in the existence of many gods but preferred one at times. For instance, the Jewish temple was offering sacrifices as early as 900 BCE, but many other gods like Ba'al andEl and Asherah were still worshipped throughout Israel. According to the books of Kings, only the kings Hezekiah and Josiah were militaristically monotheistic... and even this may not be completely true because Kings was written as a nationalistic epic.

 

In any case, the idea of "one God" in the Jewish religion wasn't really set until after the Babylonian Exile (c. 535 BCE) when the captured priests from Jerusalem produced a fully edited version of the Torah... which endorsed the worship of one national god "YHWH." Even the god "YHWH" was really a tribal deity (storm god) appropriated from the people of the southern deserts.

 

So basically, the Israelite priests made up "YHWH" on the model of the sun God Aten in the first place when they wrote the Torah, and later Constantine linked the risen Jesus to the Apollo tradition when he endorsed Christianity and began building churches.

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Interesting stuff Llwellyn.

 

Why, did Europe give up its Paganism in order to convert to the Christian religion?

 

I have a couple of quick random thoughts on this-

 

If Constantine had known what he was getting into- had realized the nastiness and destructive power of Christianity, maybe he wouldn't have enforced it on his people?? Did he have any clue that he was making a bargain with the devil...

 

Or try looking at it strictly from an evolutionary point of view- Christianity was simply more aggressive, more violent. More destructive means more useful for those in power. Could it be that simple- is that why it won out and spread? The Apollonian system was more constructive and made more sense- we can't have that!

 

 

Which presentation of God is more plausible? If Jesus exists, does that mean that Apollo does not exist, or vice versa? If both can exist, which is more ultimate and powerful?

 

Apollo is more plausible, however... Jebus came out of the monotheistic realm which is exclusive. Our god is the only god and all others are false. So maybe that's what people needed- that exclusivity, that certainty. No matter how arrogant, how violent, how pig-headed.

 

Not sure about how Jebus was viewed through Apollonian eyes but I would guess in a relatively tolerant way.

 

Grog

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If Constantine had known what he was getting into- had realized the nastiness and destructive power of Christianity, maybe he wouldn't have enforced it on his people?? Did he have any clue that he was making a bargain with the devil...

Constantine is partly responsible for unleashing the thought of "divine vengeance" upon the world, but the list of foul-minded mechanics of human mental bondage is very long: Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jesus, and of course Paul. Each of them had the opportunity to say, as Plato did: "divine retribution, although pain-producing, is always creative rather than destructive." (See Plato's Gorgias dialoge.) But none of them did it. Instead, they were each happy to perpetuate the thought of omnipotent petulence, even if they modified it a little bit.

 

Divine punishment, not intended to correct -- I am quite willing to believe that evil men like Constantine, Jesus, and Paul would continue to teach this doctrine even knowing the future of the Crusades, human despair, 9/11, and OCD about "the unforgivable sin." These men wanted to exercise power over other people with their words and with the thoughts they introduced into other peoples' heads. None of them could possibly know whether or not what they were saying was true, although they were quite happy to teach it to others -- it brought them power, prestige, and sex. Even now, every preacher has the freedom to say, "There is no real reason to believe that divine retribution is destructive rather than creative." Yet, they still teach the grim theology.

 

Or try looking at it strictly from an evolutionary point of view- Christianity was simply more aggressive, more violent. More destructive means more useful for those in power. Could it be that simple- is that why it won out and spread?

I totally agree. I believe that the thought of divine destructive retribution is a "meme" passed on from one person to another. I agree with Richard Dawkins. Now, the thought that divine retribution is creative, albeit painful, is just not a thought that has much ability to spread itself. "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." Winston Churchill.

 

Another thing to note is that Pagan theologians, like Plato, in presenting their optimistic theology were always much more reserved and modest in their claims, unlike St. Paul and his ilk when they presented their grim horrors. Plato never insisted on the absolute truth of his own particular notions: 'no man of sense will be confident in such matters; but he will be confident that something of the kind is true.' (Phaedo) As in other passages (Gorg., Tim., ), he does not, like Jesus or Paul, allow himself to be deceived by his own creations.

 

Does Apollo the Healer, who radiates creative retribution upon the cosmos (including Yahweh, if he exists) actually exist as a person, I think we pagans, must repeat with Plato: 'no man of sense will be confident in such matters; but he will be confident that something of the kind is true.' But that kind of nuance and humility is unknown amongst subscribers to the Judeo-Christo-Islamic cognitive edifice.

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I did a somewhat similar thread awhile ago (dear little amy marie and I went back and forth a lot) about why should I worship Jebus instead of Odin. Why should I worship a god whose own holy book contains proof-positive descriptions of him being a jerk instead of a god to whom none of those nasty traits can be positively ascribed?

 

It all is the same. Apollo, citing the lore about him that survives, is a far superior deity to the Abrahamic god. Apollo doesn't demand worship, doesn't threaten us with eternal torment, doesn't demand that we leave our families and cultivate an unhealthy image of him in our hearts. Apollo doesn't threaten or coerce. Apollo is superior, far superior, to the Abrahamic god (or gods, as it were).

 

Jebus will always be inferior to <insert any Pagan god here>.

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