Ziggy Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I want to know the difference between 'wishingful thinking'......and thinking you are 'connecting to something warm and alive'.? (yeah right....*hehe*) Okay...so if I don't 'pray' what are the odds of "something" happening anyway....?.....yep I can 100% guarantee that... Third point....there is no point asking 'you' people who believe in an interventionist god or whatever, for proof...because you make it up as you go along. speaking of an interventionist god.... seems like there are a shit load of different gods on this thread....& good luck all of you! (so you think your fucking inner thoughts can effect the world)....fuck that's a hoot I 'd like to challenge that.........but I'm not holding my breath. Interventionist God... NO Inner thoughts affecting the world (is changing the course of a Hurricane etc)... NO Connecting to something warm and alive... well possibly. I would use 'connecting' but probably not 'warm and alive' in my own description.. but i think it boils down to the same sort of thing and it is actually very personal. I would not expect anyone else to fully understand it - unlike a fundy who expects others to accept fully the personal God who is in charge of all things and could anything he liked - everything that happens is his will etc. BTW.. can I get one of those holy cookies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Prayer is just like fortune telling, or astrology, or any other supernatural ritual. Let me explain. Lets say you pray for God to heal your lung cancer. There are two things that can happen. One, your cancer goes into remission. Two, it doesn't, and you die. Now if the first outcome happens, you thank God for it. If the second thing happens, you subconsiously don't make a big deal out of it, because it's "God's plan." People remember the times that prayer worked and put more emphasis on that then when it doesn't work. Astrologers do the same thing. They emphasize their predictions which, by chance, came out correctly, while ignoring all the other times that they were wrong. Isn't that circular logic? By praying, you are basically asking God to go out of his way to do whatever you ask him to. But if everything in the world is the result of his plan, then prayer wouldn't make any difference. "Prayer is the highest form of vanity, that one can control nature with a few words." -Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Prayer is just like fortune telling, or astrology, or any other supernatural ritual. Let me explain. Lets say you pray for God to heal your lung cancer. There are two things that can happen. One, your cancer goes into remission. Two, it doesn't, and you die. Now if the first outcome happens, you thank God for it. If the second thing happens, you subconsiously don't make a big deal out of it, because it's "God's plan." People remember the times that prayer worked and put more emphasis on that then when it doesn't work. Astrologers do the same thing. They emphasize their predictions which, by chance, came out correctly, while ignoring all the other times that they were wrong. Isn't that circular logic? By praying, you are basically asking God to go out of his way to do whatever you ask him to. But if everything in the world is the result of his plan, then prayer wouldn't make any difference. "Prayer is the highest form of vanity, that one can control nature with a few words." -Voltaire Interesting, sane response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I've been praying to the Atkins Diety, because I need to shed some pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 *offers cookies to Ziggy and all who want them* Forget dieting...cooooome to the Darkside of sugar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epicurienne Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 By praying, you are basically asking God to go out of his way to do whatever you ask him to. But if everything in the world is the result of his plan, then prayer wouldn't make any difference. What I said, only more elegantly put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ravenholm Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Unless there is some kind of proof that pray really does work, I'm not going to waste my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I have a rather cynical view of prayer. When I was a Xian prayer was supposed to be a way to talk to god. For communion, for guidance, for connection, things like that. It was a tool to ask for things you wanted, too, whether it was blessings for a family member or clarity for yourself. As time passed I kind of noticed something weird about prayer though. Which was that it only "worked" about half the time. And it never seemed to produce truly spectacular results. That is, a lot of the time when people had good things happen in their life, and others would attribute it to god answering their prayers, it seemed to me like what was happening was just ordinary good stuff that happens in people's lives. Nothing so amazingly supernaturally spectacular that it'd give me chills and make me think, "yeah! that was god working there!" Later on I also noticed that people would offer the phrase "I'll pray for you" to people in need, without actually bothering to do anything real to help them. I also saw it hurled as an insult, kind of the last jibe of religious wingnuts who knew they were losing an argument with a heathen, and that's all they could say. Even later than that I saw that people could pray about the same things and get different answers. Whose answer was right tended to depend on who was the most stubborn, and who insisted the most firmly that they were led by the Holy Spirit and everybody else was wrong. I've since come to believe that prayer is nothing more than a means of figuring out what you really think. Not what god thinks, but what an individual human being thinks and believes. Believing this, I no longer pray to any deity. I just talk to myself. It helps ensure intelligent conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 A lifetime of prayer for me has gained negligible results for the things that were most important to me. If god is all powerful and all knowing, why does he need my worship and adoration? Prayer is really begging. Did any of you receive what you prayed for.[/b] No. Its your hard work and determination that "answers prayers." So in essence, for me ,prayer was fucking talking to yourself. Opinions? Yes. Prayer does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunk Bishop Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 when i was eight, i prayed one night that God would give me a pet. the very next morning a kitten was on my doorstep!! i loved that cat sooo much and i felt so pumped because God had answered my prayer. a week later... i woke up with my new kitten dead in my bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 when i was eight, i prayed one night that God would give me a pet. the very next morning a kitten was on my doorstep!! i loved that cat sooo much and i felt so pumped because God had answered my prayer. a week later... i woke up with my new kitten dead in my bed. That's hardcore Crunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 when i was eight, i prayed one night that God would give me a pet. the very next morning a kitten was on my doorstep!! i loved that cat sooo much and i felt so pumped because God had answered my prayer. a week later... i woke up with my new kitten dead in my bed. That's hardcore Crunk. I am sorry crunk. JEZUS fucking christ really took care of the situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 when i was eight, i prayed one night that God would give me a pet. the very next morning a kitten was on my doorstep!! i loved that cat sooo much and i felt so pumped because God had answered my prayer. a week later... i woke up with my new kitten dead in my bed. Well, the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. There is no doubt, that does sucks. But the question is, do you love the gift more than the Giver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunk Bishop Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 considering now i think that was all a coincidence... i wouldn't say i loved the gift more than the giver... or maybe it was all a test like Job. now i have two cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 considering now i think that was all a coincidence... i wouldn't say i loved the gift more than the giver... or maybe it was all a test like Job. now i have two cats. Well there ya go! That's cool. It may have very well been a test. No matter the test, it makes us stronger {even though they're not that fun to go through}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunk Bishop Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 that's why the word "miracle" means that you have to look at something in a certain way that is not objective. who can say with any certainty that I was tested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 the good of othPrayer, in itself, has some positive effects. It serves as an emotional clear Excellent response. The only positive of prayer might be some type of self delusion where the edn is "making yourself feel good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 A lifetime of prayer for me has gained negligible results for the things that were most important to me. If god is all powerful and all knowing, why does he need my worship and adoration? Prayer is really begging. Did any of you receive what you prayed for. No. Its your hard work and determination that "answers prayers." So in essence, for me ,prayer was fucking talking to yourself. Opinions? Yeap, prayer is just talking (or thinking) to yourself. And it doesn't matter which god you pray to either; you'll always get the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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