Antlerman Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I know plenty about history. I also know what the Church teaches today; that the Bible was written by holy men who were moved by the Holy Spirit, therefore it is infallible and inerrant. You just said that my mother is not a Christian, you asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Scott, I made no assumption of how much of the Bible you know. I said there are people here who know the Bible better than you do. Many deconverted from reading it. I don't doubt that there are people who know the Bible better than I do. That's why I meet with a Pastor weekly. I know plenty about history. I also know what the Church teaches today; that the Bible was written by holy men who were moved by the Holy Spirit, therefore it is infallible and inerrant. You just said that my mother is not a Christian, you asshole. I don't even hear you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I don't even hear you anymore. Good for you. Don't take responsiblity for your actions. How Christian of you, True Christian. Fuck you asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Taphophilia, you don't know if I know a great deal or just a little of the Bible. Kuroikaze, what I believe in is not religion. I don't even attend a church right now, although I'm looking for one. I don't think Christianity is or is like a cult. However, I hear what you're saying. While I believe the Bible to be 100% accurate, I understand that you don't. I also know that when I was not a Christian I hated the feeling of people trying to "convert" me. I'm not trying to convert you, but I know that's how it's coming across, and I do apoligize for that. Antlerman, yes. Every Christian believes the Bible to be 100% accurate. religion is religion, I don't make that distiction any more...I've heard the traditional bumper sticker theoglogy about how its a relationship not a religion but you've got to understand why I don't buy that anymore and I feel that christianity is not any different than most other religions. You don't have to go to church to be religious or spiritual. I'm a Taoist myself, in case you didn't read my info on the side, so you could say that I'm religious, though I'm a Non-Theist. As far as christianity being like a cult, I think it would be good to look at the definition of a cult from dictionary.com 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. 7. the members of such a religion or sect. Christianity fits most of these definitions. Cults usually have and central leader who interprets truth for them (a pastor) it tends to brainwash people into believing things that don't make sense and/or are harmful to them, but benifit the group in some way. To me, many denomonations of christianity do these things regularly. Its nothing against you, its just the facts, the only difference between a cult and a religion is one of cultural acceptance. Look at definition 6, a sect that is false? clearly subjective don't you think? You would be wrong to say that ALL christians think the bible is 100% accurate unless you include that as a nessary part of the definition which is just a no true scottsman fallicy. Lots of people call themselves christians and admit they bible has errors. The real fact of the matter is that its not 100% accurate. Of course its your choice to study and see the flaws or not, I believed in errancy until I got into appologetics, I studied the bible to try to prove that it was inerrant until I figured out that there were internal contradictions that could never be explained away. I'd be happy to show you some on another thread if your interisted, the choice is yours, though, I woudn't force it on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 My, I don't usually see Antlerman degrade into the likes of me very often. Welcome to my level. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I know plenty about history. I also know what the Church teaches today; that the Bible was written by holy men who were moved by the Holy Spirit, therefore it is infallible and inerrant. Riiiight and if the church says it then it must be true? The church had taught a lot of crazy things...besides what chruch are you talking about? Every denomonation had their own idea about the nature of the bible. Some believe its totally inerrant, other believe its inerrant for moral or spiritual truth but not historical or scientific. Some don't hold to inerrancy at all.... You say you know a lot, but your statment belies a attitude of ignorance about the teachings of the various sects of christianity in the modern world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 My, I don't usually see Antlerman degrade into the likes of me very often. Welcome to my level. mwc Thanks. I actually take that as high praise. I always enjoy all your posts. Very insightful and worded well. It just really upsets me. I love my mother. I respect her faith. She respects everyone. It makes her happy. It makes her a more fulfilled person being in her church. I support her. This asshole is saying her faith is invalid to her. Fuck him. I will not apologize for my indignacy towards this piece of shit claiming the name of God to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Taphophilia, you don't know if I know a great deal or just a little of the Bible. Kuroikaze, what I believe in is not religion. I don't even attend a church right now, although I'm looking for one. I don't think Christianity is or is like a cult. However, I hear what you're saying. While I believe the Bible to be 100% accurate, I understand that you don't. I also know that when I was not a Christian I hated the feeling of people trying to "convert" me. I'm not trying to convert you, but I know that's how it's coming across, and I do apoligize for that. Antlerman, yes. Every Christian believes the Bible to be 100% accurate. religion is religion, I don't make that distiction any more...I've heard the traditional bumper sticker theoglogy about how its a relationship not a religion but you've got to understand why I don't buy that anymore and I feel that christianity is not any different than most other religions. You don't have to go to church to be religious or spiritual. I'm a Taoist myself, in case you didn't read my info on the side, so you could say that I'm religious, though I'm a Non-Theist. As far as christianity being like a cult, I think it would be good to look at the definition of a cult from dictionary.com 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. 7. the members of such a religion or sect. Christianity fits most of these definitions. Cults usually have and central leader who interprets truth for them (a pastor) it tends to brainwash people into believing things that don't make sense and/or are harmful to them, but benifit the group in some way. To me, many denomonations of christianity do these things regularly. Its nothing against you, its just the facts, the only difference between a cult and a religion is one of cultural acceptance. Look at definition 6, a sect that is false? clearly subjective don't you think? You would be wrong to say that ALL christians think the bible is 100% accurate unless you include that as a nessary part of the definition which is just a no true scottsman fallicy. Lots of people call themselves christians and admit they bible has errors. The real fact of the matter is that its not 100% accurate. Of course its your choice to study and see the flaws or not, I believed in errancy until I got into appologetics, I studied the bible to try to prove that it was inerrant until I figured out that there were internal contradictions that could never be explained away. I'd be happy to show you some on another thread if your interisted, the choice is yours, though, I woudn't force it on you I actually am interested in what you and others consider contradictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I don't doubt that there are people who know the Bible better than I do. That's why I meet with a Pastor weekly. unfortunatly your pastor my be pretty ignorant too. I've met many church pastors who didn't know jack about history, as many MDiv degrees focus more on thelogy than history. They often have very simplistic answers for errors in the bible, and don't like it when you point out that the answers they give don't really answer the question, I've seen it happen first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Scott, If Jesus was so important, why couldn't we have any eyewitness accounts? Why is their absolutely no historical evidence that Jesus ever even existed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen666 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Holy Men! They were drunk when the wrote the Bible they had a little bit too many boos. Then the voices came and started to tell stories about Jesus and God. If someone is hearing voices it's a bad sign. " Even in the wizarding world."-Hermione Chamber of Secrets How I get the perspective of God from the Bible. How can you quote something that is imaginary. I am not talking about Jesus. They can feel free to quote him but how do they quote God? It's their head. Allah inspired me to write that. He told me so. So I guess I am one damn Holy Guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I actually am interested in what you and others consider contradictions. OMG - not another 16 year old who became a christian last month.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Scott, Start here: The Gospel Story Quiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I actually am interested in what you and others consider contradictions. OK, let me ask you a question? What was the first thing Paul did after he converted and went to Damascus? According to Acts. 9:26 Paul went to Jerusalem, but according to Paul's own hand in Galatians 1:16-17 he did NOT go to Jerusalem, he went to Arabia. I have my own thoughts as to why this disagreement exists, but I'll let you tangle with it first. Here is another, How did Judas die? did he hang himself like it says in Matthew or did the die when he went to inspect a field that he bought with the money the priests gave him like it says in Acts? now I'll admit these things are more historical contradictions, not theological ones, but if your a full inerrancy proponent, it doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladyfractal Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 You tell us to have "thick skin", yet you can't handle it when Christians share what we believe, talk about, and quote the Bible. I am not being condescening. I am, probably like the other Christians here, stating my beliefs. My belief is the Bible. I, and every other Christian, believe the Bible to be 100% true. I accept that you're not Christians. I know this. I am not here to "win converts". I first came here because this site popped up when I was looking for something else, and I came in out of curiousity. I do not lie either. That post I wrote about what I was like before I was a Christian is 100% true. If the "I'm sorry" didn't sound to heartfelt then...I'm sorry lol, it's because I don't believe I have been rude or condescening. I am, like you, stating what I believe in. Scott: Let me give you a little lesson in hypocrisy. You are now asserting that you are the expert on your life and that if you say that you were this pseudo-monster before you got religion, we should accept that. Now, that's fine except that a page or so back you said that if we are ex-Christians then we were never *actually* Christians. You don't get to do that, boyo, it's called special pleading. Now, everyone here--myself included--can talk, at length, about who we were when we were Christians. I can regale you with tales of speaking in tongues and having my words translated for the congregation and the prophecies that resulted because of it. I can talk about waking up everyday, wanting so much to die because I just knew that God disapproved of me but not wanting to kill myself because I knew it was a sin. I could tell you about asking God to please, have mercy on me and kill me so that I didn't risk my salvation by being a lesbian. And you would say that if I can say those things, I was never a 'real' Christian. Now, that may be a comforting thought for you because if SOME Christians can lose their faith, YOU might be capable of losing your faith as well and that is the thought which you cannot imagine entertaining. So it's much easier to buttress the meme with the idea that once a Christian, always a Christian and so anyone who says otherwise was never one to begin with. There is another monotheistic religion that makes very similar claims, although they go the step further (being a bit more faithful to the God of Abraham and taking him literally when he says kill the apostate). That religion is Islam. In Islam once you are a Muslim you are always a Muslim. If you renounce Islam, you are to be put to death. Now, as I said, Islam is closer to the wishes of the God of Abraham because your god does, in fact, command that the apostate be put to death (it's in Leviticus and again in Deuteronomy, I believe) but we won't quibble about your being more lenient and doing that which is displeasing to God--which is suffering the unbeliever to live. It may not be comfortable for you to hear that your words and thoughts would not be all that foreign in dar al Islam but there it is. But let's return to the central point which is this: YOU, not me, are the expert on your life experiences. If you say that you were a boozer and a ne'er do well before you found Jesus, I will accept that. The converse is also true, *I*, not you, are the expert on my life so when I say that I was a Christian you need to accept that. You don't really have much of a choice in the matter, Scott, this is what in chess is known as a forced move. ALL other paths you can choose to take, no matter how sweet they may appear, are doom-ridden. It might be useful if you thought about this a bit before posting again. Cheers lf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Okay - I'll play with the naive little fundy for a bit too: 1. Who was the high priest when David partook of the bread of the presence? (see Mark 2:26 and 1 Sam 21 : 1-7) 2. Is it true that "there are none righteous - not one" ? Or were Zechariah, Elizabeth, and Job okay? 3. Will Tyre be utterly destroyed forever never to be seen again? 4. What year was Jesus born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladyfractal Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Taphophilia, you don't know if I know a great deal or just a little of the Bible. Kuroikaze, what I believe in is not religion. I don't even attend a church right now, although I'm looking for one. I don't think Christianity is or is like a cult. However, I hear what you're saying. While I believe the Bible to be 100% accurate, I understand that you don't. I also know that when I was not a Christian I hated the feeling of people trying to "convert" me. I'm not trying to convert you, but I know that's how it's coming across, and I do apoligize for that. Antlerman, yes. Every Christian believes the Bible to be 100% accurate. Scott: Let's consider this shall we? You say you do not believe in a religion. Now, if to assess that we need a working definition of religion. Here's one: The outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, fear, or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life. I'll give you mine: A religion is a totalizing worldview and/or meaning system, usually but not exclusively involving the worship of a god or gods. This worldview will incorporate some form of mythology/mytho-poetic story telling, have rites, doctrine and dogma to it and will have a concomitant ethical/moral code attached to it. By totalizing I mean a system that seeks to answer ALL--or most all--large questions of meaning, including the origins and meaning of existence itself, the place of humans within that meaning, and the best way for humans to gain the favor of the divine beings to be appeased. Some but not all religions incorporate a total cosmogony. Either of these are good operational definitions. Now, the question is does Christianity fit either of these definitions? Let's see... Totalizing worldview and/or meaning system? Yep. By Christians own statements the Bible (the holy book) has all the answers. Sets out terms for worship of a divine being? Check Some form of mytho-poetic story telling? Check Are their rites, doctrine and dogma? Check Concomitant ethical/moral code? Check Incorporates a cosmogony? Check. Demands fear, awe, love, worship of a divine being? Check. Now, how is what you believe NOT a religion again because by any reasonable definition of the term, it certainly appears to be one. You are, of course, free to post a different definition of religion although I will challenge you (so if you choose this tack, do consider yourself challenged preemptively) to explain WHY the more common definition of religion is inaccurate and yours is superior *other* than that it allows you to say that Christianity isn't a religion. Cheers lf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I actually am interested in what you and others consider contradictions. OMG - not another 16 year old who became a christian last month.... No... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen666 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Theological doctrines: 1. God is satisfied with his works Gen 1:31 God is dissatisfied with his works. Gen 6:6 2. God dwells in chosen temples 2 Chron 7:12,16 God dwells not in temples Acts 7:48 3. God dwells in light Tim 6:16 God dwells in darkness 1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2 4. God is seen and heard Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/ Ex 24:9-11 God is invisible and cannot be heard John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16 5. God is tired and rests Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6 God is never tired and never rests Is 40:28 6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21 God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8 7. God knows the hearts of men Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3 God tries men to find out what is in their heart Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12 8. God is all powerful Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26 God is not all powerful Judg 1:19 9. God is unchangeable James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19 God is changeable Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/ Ex 33:1,3,17,14 10. God is just and impartial Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25 God is unjust and partial Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 11. God is the author of evil Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25 God is not the author of evil 1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13 12. God gives freely to those who ask James 1:5/ Luke 11:10 God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving them John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17 13. God is to be found by those who seek him Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17 God is not to be found by those who seek him Prov 1:28 14. God is warlike Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15 God is peaceful Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33 15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19 God is kind, merciful, and good James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/ 1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8 16. God's anger is fierce and endures long Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4 God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5 17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings, sacrifices ,and holy days Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9 God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings, sacrifices, and holy days. Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12 18. God accepts human sacrifices 2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39 God forbids human sacrifice Deut 12:30,31 19. God tempts men Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13 God tempts no man James 1:13 20. God cannot lie Heb 6:18 God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive 2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9 21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him Gen 6:5,7 Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him Gen 8:21 22. God's attributes are revealed in his works. Rom 1:20 God's attributes cannot be discovered Job 11:7/ Is 40:28 23. There is but one God Deut 6:4 There is a plurality of gods Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7 Moral Precepts 24. Robbery commanded Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36 Robbery forbidden Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15 25. Lying approved and sanctioned Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22 Lying forbidden Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8 26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned 2 Kings 14:7,3 Hatred to the Edomite forbidden Deut 23:7 27. Killing commanded Ex 32:27 Killing forbidden Ex 20:13 28. The blood-shedder must die Gen 9:5,6 The blood-shedder must not die Gen 4:15 29. The making of images forbidden Ex 20:4 The making of images commanded Ex 25:18,20 30. Slavery and oppression ordained Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8 Slavery and oppression forbidden Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10 31. Improvidence enjoyed Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3 Improvidence condemned 1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22 32. Anger approved Eph 4:26 Anger disapproved Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20 33. Good works to be seen of men Matt 5:16 Good works not to be seen of men Matt 6:1 34. Judging of others forbidden Matt 7:1,2 Judging of others approved 1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12 35. Christ taught non-resistance Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52 Christ taught and practiced physical resistance Luke 22:36/ John 2:15 36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed Luke 12:4 Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed John 7:1 37. Public prayer sanctioned 1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3 Public prayer disapproved Matt 6:5,6 38. Importunity in prayer commended Luke 18:5,7 Importunity in prayer condemned Matt 6:7,8 39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5 The wearing of long hair by men condemned 1 Cor 11:14 40. Circumcision instituted Gen 17:10 Circumcision condemned Gal 5:2 41. The Sabbath instituted Ex 20:8 The Sabbath repudiated Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16 42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day Ex 20:11 The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites out of Egypt Deut 5:15 43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36 Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in the same John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5 44. Baptism commanded Matt 28:19 Baptism not commanded 1 Cor 1:17,14 45. Every kind of animal allowed for food. Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14 Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food. Deut 14:7,8 46. Taking of oaths sanctioned Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13 Taking of oaths forbidden Matt 5:34 47. Marriage approved Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4 Marriage disapproved 1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8 48. Freedom of divorce permitted Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14 Divorce restricted Matt 5:32 49. Adultery forbidden Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4 Adultery allowed Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3 50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17 Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16 51. A man may marry his brother's widow Deut 25:5 A man may not marry his brother's widow Lev 20:21 52. Hatred to kindred enjoined Luke 14:26 Hatred to kindred condemned Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29 53. Intoxicating beverages recommended Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15 Intoxicating beverages discountenanced Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32 54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers and punish evil doers only Rom 13:1-3,6 It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/ Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35 55. Women's rights denied Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6 Women's rights affirmed Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9 56. Obedience to masters enjoined Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18 Obedience due to God only Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10 57. There is an unpardonable sin Mark 3:29 There is not unpardonable sin Acts 13:39 Historical Facts 58. Man was created after the other animals Gen 1:25,26,27 Man was created before the other animals Gen 2:18,19 59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease Gen 8:22 Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6 60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12 Pharaoh hardened his own heart Ex 8:15 61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9 All the horses of Egypt did not die Ex 14:9 62. Moses feared Pharaoh Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19 Moses did not fear Pharaoh Heb 11:27 63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand Num 25:9 There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand 1 Cor 10:8 64. John the Baptist was Elias Matt 11:14 John the Baptist was not Elias John 1:21 65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob Matt 1:16 The father of Mary's husband was Heli Luke 3:23 66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad Gen 11:12 The father of Salah was Cainan Luke 3:35,36 67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David Matt 1:17 There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David Matt 1:2-6 68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity to Christ. Matt 1:17 There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian captivity to Christ Matt 1:12-16 69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23 The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt Luke 2:22, 39 70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness Mark 1:12,13 Christ was not tempted in the wilderness John 2:1,2 71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount Matt 5:1,2 Christ preached his first sermon on the plain Luke 6:17,20 72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee John 1:43/ John 3:22-24 73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff and sandals Mark 6:8,9 Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither staffs nor sandals. Matt 10:9,10 74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus Matt 15:22 It was a Greek woman who besought Him Mark 7:26 75. Two blind men besought Jesus Matt 20:30 Only one blind man besought Him Luke 18:35,38 76. Christ was crucified at the third hour Mark 15:25 Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour John 19:14,15 77. The two thieves reviled Christ. Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32 Only one of the thieves reviled Christ Luke 23:39,40 78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper John 13:27 Satan entered into him before the supper Luke 22:3,4,7 79. Judas committed suicide by hanging Matt 27:5 Judas did not hang himself, but died another way Acts 1:18 80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas Acts 1:18 The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests Matt 27:6,7 81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre John 20:1 There were two women who came to the sepulchre Matt 28:1 82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre Mark 16:1 There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre Luke 24:10 83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre Mark 16:2 It was some time before sunrise when they came. John 20:1 84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down. Matt 28:2,5 85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre. John 20:11,12 There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre Mark 16:5 86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave Matt 12:40 Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9> 87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost Acts 1:8,5 Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost John 20:22 88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the resurrection to go into Galilee Matt 28:10 The disciples were commanded immediately after the resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem Luke 24:49 89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at Jerusalem Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19 Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee Matt 28:16,17 90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet Acts 1:9,12 Christ ascended from Bethany Luke 24:50,51 91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood speechless Acts 9:7 Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate Acts 26:14 92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan Gen 12:5 Abraham went not knowing where Heb 11:8 93. Abraham had two sons Gal 4:22 Abraham had but one son Heb 11:17 94. Keturah was Abraham's wife Gen 25:1 Keturah was Abraham's concubine 1 Chron 1:32 95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the interposition of Providence Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12 Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years old without any interposition of providence Gen 25:1,2 96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor Josh 24:32 Abraham bought it of Hamor Acts 7:16 97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed forever Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8 Abraham and his seed never received the promised land Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13 98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan 2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be correct. Original manuscript was incorrect> The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan 1 Chron 20:5 99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram 2 Kings 8:25 Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram 2 Kings 9:29 100. Michal had no child 2 Sam 6:23 Michal had five children 2 Sam 21:8 101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel 2 Sam 24:1 David was tempted by Satan to number the people 1 Chron 21:1 102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of Judah 500,000 2 Sam 24:9 The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of Judah 470,000 1 Chron 21:5 103. David sinned in numbering the people 2 Sam 24:10 David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah 1 Kings 15:5 104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of famine. 2 Sam 24:13 It was not seven years, but three years of famine 1 Chron 21:11,12 105. David took seven hundred horsemen 2 Sam 8:4 David took seven thousand horsemen 1 Chron 18:4 106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver 2 Sam 24:24 David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of gold 1 Chron 21:25 107. David's throne was to endure forever. Ps 89:35-37 David's throne was cast down Ps 89:44 Speculative Doctrines 108. Christ is equal with God John 10:30/ Phil 2:5 Christ is not equal with God John 14:28/ Matt 24:36 109. Jesus was all-powerful Matt 28:18/ John 3:35 Jesus was not all-powerful Mark 6:5 110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6 The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation Matt 5:17-19 111. Christ's mission was peace Luke 2:13,14 Christ's mission was not peace Matt 10:34 112. Christ received not testimony from man John 5:33,34 Christ did receive testimony from man John 15:27 113. Christ's witness of himself is true. John 8:18,14 Christ's witness of himself is not true. John 5:31 114. Christ laid down his life for his friends John 15:13/ John 10:11 Christ laid down his life for his enemies Rom 5:10 115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death John 19:7 It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death John 18:31 116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents Ex 20:5 Children are not punished for the sins of the parents Ezek 18:20 117. Man is justified by faith alone Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2 Man is not justified by faith alone James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13 118. It is impossible to fall from grace John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39 It is possible to fall from grace Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21 119. No man is without sin 1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10 Christians are sinless 1 John 3: 9,6,8 120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead 1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16 There is to be no resurrection of the dead Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14 121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world Prov 11:31 Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10 122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20 Endless misery the portion of all mankind Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2 123. The Earth is to be destroyed 2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11 The Earth is never to be destroyed Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4 124. No evil shall happen to the godly Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13 Evil does happen to the godly Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7 125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/ Job 42:12 Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17 126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/ Prov 15:6 Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/ Luke 6:24 127. The Christian yoke is easy Matt 11:28,29,30 The Christian yoke is not easy John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8 128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness Gal 5:22 The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11 129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20 Longevity denied to the wicked Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17 130. Poverty a blessing Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5 Riches a blessing Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12 Neither poverty nor riches a blessing Prov 30:8,9 131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment Prov 3:13,17 Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow Eccl 1:17,18 132. A good name is a blessing Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1 A good name is a curse Luke 6:26 133. Laughter commended Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15 Laughter condemned Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4 134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness Prov 22:15 There is no remedy for foolishness Prov 27:22 135. A fool should be answered according to his folly Prov 26:5 A fool should not be answered according to his folly Prov 26:4 136. Temptation to be desired James 1:2 Temptation not to be desired Matt 6:13 137. Prophecy is sure 2 Pet 1:19 Prophecy is not sure Jer 18:7-10 138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10 Man's life is but seventy years Ps 90:10 139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast Gen 9:2 The fear of man is not upon the lion Prov 30:30 140. Miracles a proof of divine mission Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31 Miracles not a proof of divine mission Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19 141. Moses was a very meek man Num 12:3 Moses was a very cruel man Num 31:15,17 142. Elijah went up to heaven 2 Kings 2:11 None but Christ ever ascended into heaven John 3:13 143. All scripture is inspired 2 Tim 3:16 Some scripture is not inspired 1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17 Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Matthew 10:34 ... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. - Matthew 26:52 For wrath killeth the foolish man... - Job 5:2 ... let not the sun go down on your wrath. - Ephesians 4:26 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. - John 3:13 ... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. - 2 Kings 2:11 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. - John 5:31 I am one that bear witness of myself... - John 8:18 [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes] Here is a list of contradictions from www.evilbible.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Kuroikaze, what I believe in is not religion. I don't even attend a church right now, although I'm looking for one. I don't think Christianity is or is like a cult. Ah. So since christianity is not a religion, chuches should be subject to taxation and church donations should not be eligible for itemized deductions on your taxes. If it's not a religion, it shouldn't receive financial concessions. Pastors should hold a second job to pay for their own living space too then. And here is the definition of the word "cult". http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=cult S: (n) cult (adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices) Let's see.....does Christianity welcome and embrace Hinduism or Islam as being of equal value in the eyes of their deity? NO. So yes, it's an exclusive system of religious beliefs. S: (n) fad, craze, furor, furore, cult, rage (an interest followed with exaggerated zeal) "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season" This definition is very rarely used anymore......doesn't really have anything to do with religion.....unless you consider the persecution of witches by burning, casting off of material wealth, and martyrdom of past ages "fads". So....yeah. It does fit. S: (n) cult, cultus, religious cult (a system of religious beliefs and rituals) "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin" Christianity IS a religious system. Big yes here. Other resources have christianity eligible for being described as cults. The ONLY dictionaries that EXCLUDE the cult status of christianity....are.....gee.....christian-based dictionaries. Can you say....agenda? Like this one: http://www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/glossary.htm Uh-Oh....look out! Freethought! Don't bother looking Scott.....you'll just get your eyes dirty....don't look: http://freethought.mbdojo.com/cult_of_christianity.html I told you not to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 have you noticed that once we settled in to have a rational discussion of the facts the christians all disapeared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 have you noticed that once we settled in to have a rational discussion of the facts the christians all disapeared? I'd like to see David Copperfield pull that stunt! So what if he made Lady Liberty vanish.....we can make christians go...*poof* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Yeah I found out too little, too late that prayer didn't work. I'd pray about things in my life. One prime example was about xian god's will for my life, I took myself out of college for that, my whole life revolved around xianity, and I realized that xian god wasn't helping me at all. My life was passing me by. It made me angry to realize that none of it was real. That it was all fake. Only thing that ever helped me was getting off my ass and changing things on my own, amazing how much you can accomplish just by getting your tush off the couch. Thats so true. After a lifetime of prayer attained NOTHING. My prayer is to do whats right to myself and others, to love and appreciate each day. Not to pay homage, live a life of guilt and beg for things from some fuckin imaginary being who we can't see, feel, hear or experience in any way. I do believe in "do unto others as you would do to yourself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 He has every right to command us. He made us. Answer this question: God made man to be in communion with Him. Man had everything, yet they disobeyed God. They knew the wages of sin are death, yet they did it anyway. Is God obligated to save us? No. Yet He made a way of salvation by giving His life for us. Ok, we sinned, God never sinned. He made a way to escape Hell, yet it's still His fault? No. It is our disbelief that sends us there, not God. Do you think God should force us to believe and make everything just the way we want it? It doesn't work that way. No they did not know, how could they? They ate from the tree of knowledge, hello! One of the reasons Adam and Eve were innocent is because they did not know the difference between good, and evil. All god said was don't eat it or you'll die. Which was a bold face lie, oh I know brought on death, but still, they lived. Tell me this if I say a truth, in such a way as to make someone think something that is untrue, did I lie? Most would say, yes I did, so... so did God. God knew that if they ate from the tree, they would know, and therefore "poof" sin and sin = death, but they wouldn't eat and then 'poof" fall down dead, God also knew that was EXACTLY what Adam and Eve though, so, he lied. So here we go, two complete innocents, like children. Their father puts a poisenous tree right in the middle of their playground and tells them not to eat from it, making unrealistic threats about what will happen if they do. Look, I'm not a god, but I know what would happen if I did that with my kids, so guess what.... I wouldn't do that! As fiction, as a fable, it is a wonderful story, that has some points about humanbeings. As history, as the "truth" it paints god as a liar who set up mankind to fail, then blamed them when they did. It's the tale of a sadist, set up an impossible game, so the victum has to lose, watch them squirm on your hook until they finnally, ineviatably fail, then pounce and tourture, dang I think I knew that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 First I would like to say, there is no such thing as an "exchristian". You may think you are, but in the Biblical sense of the word, you were never really Christians, if you truly denied the Faith. Jesus stated in Matthew 10:26-10 that no one can snatch us out of the hand of God. So, if you fall from the Faith and never decide to come back, you were never in the Father's hand. You were never a sheep of Jesus; a Christian. 1 John 2:18-19 states that antichrists may have seemed to be a Christian, but they departed from the Faith. So, it's not possible to say you were once a true Christian, then left the Faith. No true Christians leave the Faith, and you will know a true Christian by the way they live. Now, about that prayer you prayed....that was no prayer. It was commanding God. God is not commanded by men, for He is the Creator. We are to truly look for God, not say "Answer my prayer or else!". If we draw near to God, He will draw near to us, James 4:8. I'm sure people may have prayed many times, but they didn't receive the answer they wanted. God answers prayer the way He chooses, because He is God and we are His creation and He knows best. We have no power over Him. Now, some people, like I said, may pray in desperate situations, like a child's death; but if the child dies, he'll be in Heaven with Jesus and that is a whole lot better than living in this world. Step right up folks and witness yet one more xian moron who has given the reins of his brain to his pastor. Pfft... I've answered these posts so many times. Why bother? See you in a few years if you ever get your lobotomy reversed Scott. I don't even hear you anymore. Good for you. Don't take responsiblity for your actions. How Christian of you, True Christian. Fuck you asshole. Are you drunk AM? Perhaps someone else is typing on your account? Welcome to the low road my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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