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Goodbye Jesus

Prayer Helps No One


Ramen666

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:grin:

 

(O_M singing)

 

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

 

Scotty's full of Bull-shit

 

Nah....Nah.... Nah... Nah.... :lmao:

 

----------------------

 

Hey Antlerman .... you're right ... this is very refreshing. Sometimes it's a fun to be uncivil..... do you mind if I join you? ;)

:lmao::funny::lmao:

 

If we didn't laugh, we would have to cry at the total unconsciousness of people like Scott. Frankly, I don't feel like crying!

 

True enough NotBlinded.... (sigh) True enough.... (deep sigh) ---- pause ---- thinks again (sigh)

 

Oh ... what the hell ---- according to Scotty ..... we're all going to fry anyway...... right? :shrug:

 

(singing again - my voice is horrible so you'll have to excuse the high whiny pitch)

 

Nah ... Nah... Nah....

 

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

 

Scotty's full of Bull-shit.......

:funny:

 

---------------------

 

Seriously though .... Scott... When are you going to answer my question. It's legitimate ----

 

What hell are you going to fry in because you don't believe the correct innerant scripture. :shrug:

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Goodbye Jesus
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True enough NotBlinded.... (sigh) True enough.... (deep sigh) ---- pause ---- thinks again (sigh)

 

Oh ... what the hell ---- according to Scotty ..... we're all going to fry anyway...... right? :shrug:

 

(singing again - my voice is horrible so you'll have to excuse the high whiny pitch)

 

Nah ... Nah... Nah....

 

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

Bull-shit

 

Scotty's full of Bull-shit.......

:funny:

 

Oh man! :lmao::lmao: Stop it! :lmao::lmao:

 

:lmao::HappyCry: I told you I didn't feel like crying! Now I've laughed so hard, I'm crying! :HappyCry::lmao:

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Here is an example of Scott's mind in his way of thinking. Check out the picture below.

post-2064-1156973067_thumb.jpg

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Yes, I was busy because I had to go to school. Unlike "some" people who stay on the forums all day. Now, first thing is this, I do not know why God does some of the things He does or has done. That's where faith comes in. And if you don't buy into that answer, that's fine. But we must faith or else we can't please Him, and I want to do that.

 

Also, why do you refer to Hell as "frying"? You don't know if Hell is a "frying" place. The fire may be symbolic. Tell me this, if the fire is symbolic, and instead of fire you get eternal seperation from God {No love, no peace, no joy etc}, would that not be just?

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Yes, I was busy because I had to go to school. Unlike "some" people who stay on the forums all day. Now, first thing is this, I do not know why God does some of the things He does or has done. That's where faith comes in. And if you don't buy into that answer, that's fine. But we must faith or else we can't please Him, and I want to do that.

 

Also, why do you refer to Hell as "frying"? You don't know if Hell is a "frying" place. The fire may be symbolic. Tell me this, if the fire is symbolic, and instead of fire you get eternal seperation from God {No love, no peace, no joy etc}, would that not be just?

 

You didn't answer my question, Scott, you just played word games......... Again (drum roll please)..... the question is....

 

What hell are you going to fry in because you don't believe the correct innerant scripture?

 

In case you missed it ... The point of the question isn't whether one will "fry" or not "fry" in "hell". The point of the question is WHICH hell will you be tormented in BECAUSE YOU don't believe in the CORRECT INNERANT SCRIPTURE? In simple terms - how the hell do YOU know the Christian version of hell (truth) what ever is correct? :nono:

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Why do we say frying? That's easy because maybe we heard it from our pastor. Just like you said that they are all wisodm and experienced Christians. It was in fact my pastor that said " You would burn in hell at eternity. " Burn" " Suffer" He said " Have you ever got burned before and it hurt hell is the same thing 1.000 times worse and all the time." Roasting on the eternal frying pan wasting away.

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Yes, I was busy because I had to go to school. Unlike "some" people who stay on the forums all day. Now, first thing is this, I do not know why God does some of the things He does or has done. That's where faith comes in. And if you don't buy into that answer, that's fine. But we must faith or else we can't please Him, and I want to do that.

 

Also, why do you refer to Hell as "frying"? You don't know if Hell is a "frying" place. The fire may be symbolic. Tell me this, if the fire is symbolic, and instead of fire you get eternal seperation from God {No love, no peace, no joy etc}, would that not be just?

If the fires of hell are symbolic, how are you so sure that heaven is not symbolic?

 

And if the word eternal is also symbolic, then why can't heaven be understood as living the rest of your life with the knowledge that 'God' is in you?

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First of all, if I have been condescending or arrogant, please point it out to me. I don't claim to be perfect, and I know I have flaws. Pride is one of them, and I have been working on it.

 

Open_Minded, I don't believe I will go to any Hell. I am a Christian because it became evident to me that God is with me, because He gave me perfect peace in the midst of distress. Now, people sometimes say "You just think you're one of the chosen ones" or something like that. It's not that at all. I'm nothing special in that God favors me above someone else. That's bull. Salvation is open to everyone. I believe God will give peace to all those who call upon Him and believe in the name of His Son.

 

Ramen666, I never said that "all" Pastors are wise and experienced Christians. I believe mine is, and I'm sure there are many, many others who are. There are also some false teachers out there. Before joining a church we need to know if they believe in the foundation of the Christian Faith. I don't believe it is right what he said about Hell. We shouldn't try to scare people like that into becoming a Christian. They will be afraid of God more than they love Him. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or a false teacher, I just don't agree with it.

 

Notblindedbytheblight, the fires of hell may be symbolic because everyone knows what fire is. Just being seperated from God may be kinda like a fire in your gut. A pain that is unimaginable.

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First of all, if I have been condescending or arrogant, please point it out to me. I don't claim to be perfect, and I know I have flaws. Pride is one of them, and I have been working on it.

Why don't you ask the one you have offended and angered the most? I point it out to you, yet you have chosen to ignore me because I expressed my anger at you for your behavior.

 

If you are sincere in you request, prove it by asking me. It would afterall be the Christian thing to do: "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. " To ignore me is to ignore Christ's words to you.

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First of all, if I have been condescending or arrogant, please point it out to me. I don't claim to be perfect, and I know I have flaws. Pride is one of them, and I have been working on it.

 

Open_Minded, I don't believe I will go to any Hell. I am a Christian because it became evident to me that God is with me, because He gave me perfect peace in the midst of distress. Now, people sometimes say "You just think you're one of the chosen ones" or something like that. It's not that at all. I'm nothing special in that God favors me above someone else. That's bull. Salvation is open to everyone. I believe God will give peace to all those who call upon Him and believe in the name of His Son.

 

Ramen666, I never said that "all" Pastors are wise and experienced Christians. I believe mine is, and I'm sure there are many, many others who are. There are also some false teachers out there. Before joining a church we need to know if they believe in the foundation of the Christian Faith. I don't believe it is right what he said about Hell. We shouldn't try to scare people like that into becoming a Christian. They will be afraid of God more than they love Him. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or a false teacher, I just don't agree with it.

 

Notblindedbytheblight, the fires of hell may be symbolic because everyone knows what fire is. Just being seperated from God may be kinda like a fire in your gut. A pain that is unimaginable.

 

 

 

Scott you are contradicting your self. How do you not know your pastor is a false teacher? How do you not know what you are being told is false? Every other religion to you is false...but what if yours is false.

 

Maybe something is happening to you Scott maybe we are getting through to you. You are changing the Bible and everything. But you are starting to just tell shit now, how hell isn't fire and we won't fry.

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Yes, I was busy because I had to go to school. Unlike "some" people who stay on the forums all day.

 

Hey punk. I've already GOT my Bachelor's degree......and I paid for school on my own dime so I have no Student Loans to pay off. I have a good job, work full time, made over 50,000 last year.....

 

If I want to spend time on the internet chatting with friends and stepping on egotistical slugs such as yourself then I've earned the right to do that!

 

Fuck you. I feel sorry for your mother's vagina. It had to bear YOU.

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Yes, I was busy because I had to go to school. Unlike "some" people who stay on the forums all day.

 

Hey punk. I've already GOT my Bachelor's degree......and I paid for school on my own dime so I have no Student Loans to pay off. I have a good job, work full time, made over 50,000 last year.....

 

If I want to spend time on the internet chatting with friends and stepping on egotistical slugs such as yourself then I've earned the right to do that!

 

Fuck you. I feel sorry for your mother's vagina. It had to bear YOU.

Likewise... you're really HOT when you go for the kill :wub:

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Scott,

 

I believed EXACTLY the same things you are espousing now. I sincerely believed the "God said it, I don't really understand it, but hey that's faith" line of thinking. It's being blind on purpose, dude.

 

What you've fallen for is the "ticket to ride" religion: "I've got mine, and that's enough for me."

 

What you are saying is just like anyone from any religion in the world. Same thing. "God's ways aren't my ways"..."it's beyong me." "God made the rules, not me."

 

But the choice you have made is in which path you want to follow. You have chosen a path that places the MAJORITY of humanity for ALL TIME in hell. Billions of souls are suffering according to your religion. Millions are added every day. No end in sight. More where those came from. Kids. Old folks. Good people. Bad people. My maternal grandparents. Most of my friends. Probably most of the people you know, too. And there is no damned way out. Closed door. Finito.

 

Isn't that in itself enough for you to back away from this religion? I mean, geez. What sort of God is that? Would you do this to your own kids? If they disobey you, you kill them, after torturing them for a couple of years? C'mon, that's just too immoral.

 

The Antlerman touched on this w/ his reaction to what you said about his mom. On this site, you are dealing with folks who are not wide eyed innocents. We were True Believers. The Real Deal. Sold out for Jesus Freaks. Believe me, man, I have made congregations cry w/ my sold out sincerity for Jesus. I believed it. Then I grew up. Like the prodigal son, I came to my senses. What Christianity represented was too horrific for me to believe any more. I lost faith and became an apostate.

 

Now I look out at the world as it is. No hidden meanings. No conspiracies being played out on some giant chess board of existence. Life is not a symbol of anything but itself. I went running last evening in Golden Gate Park...I was blown away by how beautiful life is. It's for living NOW. Not after we die. But now.

 

I'm glad you're on this site, working out your questions. I don't berate you for anything you've said, and I know that even though you may remain a christian, you won't be the same. No one in your christian experience will talk about this stuff. Just try to remain open to another point of view.

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Antlerman, you don't know who I have angered the most. And that statement I posted was for everyone on this site.

 

Ramen666, I never said that people will not fry in Hell. I never stated it as a fact. I said it was possible. I don't know for sure if the "fires" of Hell are literal or symbolic.

 

Whie_Raven23, haha

 

Curtdude, I don't have blind faith. Blind faith is believing whatever I'm told. I check everything according to the Scriptures. And as I have said before, I have experience God and everyone can do the same. No, I don't have blind faith. We don't have to understand everything God does and why. We just have to trust Him. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't ask questions. It's good to do so. That's how we learn. But we must trust God. I would never torcher my children, no. But according to the Scriptures, not everyone is God's child because we are seperated from Him because of sin. It is simple to become God's child {through Jesus}, but sadly most don't want to or doesn't choose to. The Bible teaches that in the afterlife, God will seperate those from Himself who wanted nothing to do with Him in this life. Now, whether the fires of Hell are literal or symbolic, why would God accept those who reject Him? If God doesn't send people away from Him, would He still be considered just? Would you like to see Hitler, Osama Binladan, or the 9/11 hiejackers in Heaven? Tell me, and this question is open to anyone who wants to answer, what would your ideal God be like? Would He be loving, Holy, Just? Just tell me, what would a perfect God be like to you?

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Antlerman, you don't know who I have angered the most. And that statement I posted was for everyone on this site.

You have offended me. Period. Are you going to continue to ignore my complaint, or are you going to set your pride aside in the spirit of the Gospel you proclaim to uphold, and humble yourself in seeking forgiveness? You have offended once in judging my sincerity in my beliefs, and then by apologizing to me insincerely, saying you were sorry but not meaning it.

 

In my eyes, your faith in Christ is being wholly judged by your responses here. Your words about Christ and truth are meaningless when your actions manifest a vastly different message. "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

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Antlerman, you don't know who I have angered the most. And that statement I posted was for everyone on this site.

 

Oh...so because it was meant for everyone, the insult was supposed to be diluted somehow?

 

Think you should get 500 or more veterans of the Women's Movement, and announce to them all that they should all be happy, barefoot and pregnant prairie muffins content to be homemakers.

 

After all, if you just told 5 of those women that....they would kick your ass. But telling 500 would make it okay of course.

 

Go ahead....do it.

 

But wait until we set up the bleachers so we can all watch and have a good view.

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....Curtdude, I don't have blind faith. Blind faith is believing whatever I'm told. I check everything according to the Scriptures. And as I have said before, I have experience God and everyone can do the same. No, I don't have blind faith. We don't have to understand everything God does and why. We just have to trust Him. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't ask questions. It's good to do so. That's how we learn. But we must trust God. ....

 

This is circular reasoning based on a belief in the inerrancy of the christian bible. Your faith is still blind to me because you are putting your belief in a text that is contradictory and, from my point of view, violent. Also, your "experience" no better justifies your faith than a hindu or muslim's experience justifies their faith.

 

...I would never torcher [sic] my children, no. But according to the Scriptures, not everyone is God's child because we are seperated from Him because of sin. It is simple to become God's child {through Jesus}, but sadly most don't want to or doesn't choose to. The Bible teaches that in the afterlife, God will seperate those from Himself who wanted nothing to do with Him in this life. Now, whether the fires of Hell are literal or symbolic, why would God accept those who reject Him? If God doesn't send people away from Him, would He still be considered just? Would you like to see Hitler, Osama Binladan, or the 9/11 hiejackers in Heaven? Tell me, and this question is open to anyone who wants to answer, what would your ideal God be like? Would He be loving, Holy, Just? Just tell me, what would a perfect God be like to you?

 

Using the above, would you harm another person's child simply because they are not your own? Why would we expect the creator of all life to act differently?

 

Your brief but unnecessary step-by-step way to salvation is gratuitous. "....It is simple to become God's child {through Jesus}...." Been there. Done that.

 

No, I would not want to see Hitler or Osama bin Laden et al. to be tortured for all eternity. I'm not a sadist. They are. I'd like to see them executed (my own personal ethics) but I don't want to see anyone tortured with no end. No lesson learned there for anyone.

 

Your question about what sort of god I'd like is SO consumer-driven...geez: you mean to say, "what sort of god would fulfill my needs?". Why not ask if we'd like a god "super-sized"... :twitch:

 

I don't see a need for a deity to do anything, so the question is just strange to me. As I said earlier, life is full enough with love, joy, pain and suffering. I don't see a need to have a big (or small) deity to fill out the spaces for me.

 

Is your life that empty that you desperately need some Big Daddy to make you better? Are you really that evil? I doubt it.

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Well, that depends on what you consider evil. My life was empty before I became a Christian. But, to me, God is not a crutch, in that, I don't feel misrable so I create an imaginary friend. It doesn't work that way. You believe in no diety, so, what do you believe is the point of life? If there is no God, then this is basically it and there is no point for our existence. Did evolution create the world? What do you think?

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Well, that depends on what you consider evil. My life was empty before I became a Christian. But, to me, God is not a crutch, in that, I don't feel misrable so I create an imaginary friend. It doesn't work that way. You believe in no diety, so, what do you believe is the point of life? If there is no God, then this is basically it and there is no point for our existence. Did evolution create the world? What do you think?

 

I would not consider anything done by humans worthy of eternal torture. Particularly from a deity who knew beforehand who would and would not be in heaven and hell. But I will not contest your experience.

 

Of course you don't look to God as a crutch. Neither does anyone in my evangelical family. I AM suggesting that you (and the rest of humanity) have done nothing so heinous as to be worthy of eternal torture.

 

The point of my life is TO LIVE and LIVE WELL. Maybe even a little Golden Rule thrown in there, to moderate everything. Treating others like you like to be treated is not just a good Christian maxim: it's a good way to live. It works in everyday life. You help others - they help you. Seems pretty common sensical to me. I have found after years in the Christian church that there is no need to have "a point" to life. It's not a job. Living is not a "project."

 

I am not suggesting at all that I have the answer to "what is life"...but I know what is NOT the answer, and that is what christianity has come up with. Honestly, I'm tired of trying to figure out things that I have no possible way of knowing. Did evolution happen? Sounds more reasonable to me than any religion has come up with, but again, I'm not a scientist, and could not debate the issue.

 

But it's interesting that you bring this up whole "what's the point." I was just thinking yesterday that I do like the whole discovery of living. Finding out more about myself, how I fit into the lives of those I love, how do I fit into this big world. I mean, I just saw on pbs last night the latest robot they sent to Mars...fascinating. And totally beautiful.

 

I'm gone for the day...check back Thursday.

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You believe in no diety, so, what do you believe is the point of life? If there is no God, then this is basically it and there is no point for our existence. Did evolution create the world? What do you think?

 

Be careful with this kind of thinking Scott. While yes, there are atheists here....just because most of us have pitched the idea of religion, it doesn't mean we've pitched the idea of a supreme being. Personally, I fall more into an agnostic/deist category (if you feel the need to label.....I don't like labels personally, but to each's own).

 

And one does not need to believe in the existence of a higher power in order to find worth, value, and even purpose to their lives, as Curtdude has pointed out. Just as I am the only one responsible for my own happiness, I am the one responsible for giving my life meaning.

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Antlerman, I believe in that verse he's talking about spiritual brothers; Christians. Although, if I came across as arrogant and/or condescending, I truly do apologize. That was not my intention.

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Well, that depends on what you consider evil. My life was empty before I became a Christian. But, to me, God is not a crutch, in that, I don't feel misrable so I create an imaginary friend. It doesn't work that way. You believe in no diety, so, what do you believe is the point of life? If there is no God, then this is basically it and there is no point for our existence. Did evolution create the world? What do you think?

 

WOW been gone to work all day and come back with two pages added to this topic.

 

No point? Why does there always have to be something eternal for there to be a point? What if the point is just to do the best you can until you die, I'm comfortable with that point.

 

Evolution has nothing to do with this at all, even if I knew for sure that evolution was false I still wouldn't worship Yahweh.

 

And dont' think I haven't noticed that you deftly ignored the biblcal contradictions I presented you with...you were the one who said you wanted to hear what I had to say.

 

 

 

Antlerman, I believe in that verse he's talking about spiritual brothers; Christians. Although, if I came across as arrogant and/or condescending, I truly do apologize. That was not my intention.

 

 

I think it has been sufficiently explained to you why your words seemed condescending to us.

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Well, that depends on what you consider evil. My life was empty before I became a Christian. But, to me, God is not a crutch, in that, I don't feel misrable so I create an imaginary friend. It doesn't work that way. You believe in no diety, so, what do you believe is the point of life? If there is no God, then this is basically it and there is no point for our existence. Did evolution create the world? What do you think?

 

Why must life have a point? People want to find explanations or meaning in things because that's how we are. We have brains, and brains need rationalization. For me, my goal in life is to raise fine children, and leave my mark through writing.

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Well, that depends on what you consider evil. My life was empty before I became a Christian. But, to me, God is not a crutch, in that, I don't feel misrable so I create an imaginary friend. It doesn't work that way. You believe in no diety, so, what do you believe is the point of life? If there is no God, then this is basically it and there is no point for our existence. Did evolution create the world? What do you think?

 

WOW been gone to work all day and come back with two pages added to this topic.

 

No point? Why does there always have to be something eternal for there to be a point? What if the point is just to do the best you can until you die, I'm comfortable with that point.

 

Evolution has nothing to do with this at all, even if I knew for sure that evolution was false I still wouldn't worship Yahweh.

 

And dont' think I haven't noticed that you deftly ignored the biblcal contradictions I presented you with...you were the one who said you wanted to hear what I had to say.

 

 

 

Antlerman, I believe in that verse he's talking about spiritual brothers; Christians. Although, if I came across as arrogant and/or condescending, I truly do apologize. That was not my intention.

 

 

I think it has been sufficiently explained to you why your words seemed condescending to us.

 

I didn't ignore the contradictions. I'm still studying on it. I won't dismiss something I believe in so deeply just like that. So, I'm still studying on that and I will probably respond to it later.

I know it has been explained to me why I seem condescending. That's why I apologized.

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The Bible teaches that in the afterlife, God will seperate those from Himself who wanted nothing to do with Him in this life. Now, whether the fires of Hell are literal or symbolic, why would God accept those who reject Him? If God doesn't send people away from Him, would He still be considered just? Would you like to see Hitler, Osama Binladan, or the 9/11 hiejackers in Heaven? Tell me, and this question is open to anyone who wants to answer, what would your ideal God be like? Would He be loving, Holy, Just? Just tell me, what would a perfect God be like to you?

I'm going to play your little game Scott (so for the sake of the game we'll assume your fantasy world and players all exist).

 

Here's the answer. Yes. I would like to see Hitler and Osama and all the rest in heaven. What, you say? Those monsters. Yep, those monsters. Satan and pals too. Work with me here. We're all standing before god. It's Hitler's "turn" to be judged and up he goes. His crimes are read and they are long and horrible. He turns to defend himself and looks into the face of *your* loving jesus. He sees in those eyes all the attrocities that he could never see in himself while alive and cries out "I get it now!" So what does *your* god to do? Justice or mercy?

 

Let's continue. God finishes his judgement. He separates the sheep from the goats. The saved from the damned. He's about to cast all the goats into the eternal damnation when he suddenly declares "Even though you all deserve damnation I forgive you. Come into my kingdom." Is this justice or mercy?

 

Which is more important to *YOU*, Scott because that is really what this scenerio is all about. It's not about god or jesus it is about *YOU*. Both of the above scenerios must be offensive to you on some level because it is *YOU* that is demanding the so-called justice. You have said over and over that god can do as he pleases but it's always in the judgemental way. It's never in the merciful way. This reveals who you are more than who god is Scott. You simply project your idealized traits onto your god. Of course you will accept god's decision but we both know that's not what this is all about. Your god will always choose justice, your concept of justice, over mercy every single time.

 

mwc

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