Is Hell Fair?

[Ouroboros]

HanSolo, the rich man in Luke 16 felt great concern for His family when he was in hell, but there was nothing he could do about it.

So, he didn't feel love, but he hated his family sooooo much, that during his extreme pain and suffering he didn't think of himself, but his hate drove him so much as to ask if Abraham could make sure his family knew about Hell so he didn't have to have them around too. I guess it was plain selfishness that made him ask for this, since his family were a pain in the ass and would have made Hell even worse... Then Hell maybe isn't the worst thing there is?

 

Or...

 

Maybe he did care and love his family so much that he didn't want them to suffer the same. According to the Bible, love comes from God, so if you're "cut off from God's love" as you said, then the rich man should not have felt love for his family. Unless, you can admit the Bible being wrong about love having its source in God, but love being an attribute outside of God's nature.

 

Either way, it doesn't fit.

 

 

No offence, but that's a load of crap. No one can tell me that my experiences are not real. You don't even know fully of what I went through. I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of going to Hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

I can prove you wrong...

 

 

Your experiences were/are not real.

 

 

See, I could, I did, so you're wrong to say that no one can tell you that. You might not agree, but for sure someone can express it.

 

 

If you love Jesus, and Hell doesn't scare you, then I suggest that you either do one of the following things (or both):

1. Sign up for a deadly experiment that could lead to save and heal thousands of people. Your life isn't that important, and you know where you're going anyway. So there's nothing for you to be scared of. But there's a lot of extra brownie points to gain by doing this. God will give you a big hug for it.

2. You could ask God to send you to Hell in the place of lets say 1000 people that are going to Hell. Doing something like Jesus did. When you die, you go to Hell (that isn't so scary for you), and you'll save 1000 people that otherwise would have gone to Hell. I'm sure God will give you a big hug for this sacrifice too.

[Scott]

Everglaze, just because you were or would be afraid of Hell, doesn't mean every Christian is a Christian for the sole purpose that they are afraid of Hell.

[Everglaze]

Everglaze, just because you were or would be afraid of Hell, doesn't mean every Christian is a Christian for the sole purpose that they are afraid of Hell.

 

I'm afraid of Hell or would be afraid of Hell? Sorry pal, I'm not from that planet of oysters.

 

It seems to me that you're so confident in what you state. Anyone can say they're not afraid of something, but can they show that they aren't?

[Scott]

Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb have no reason to be afraid of Hell. I can't prove I'm not afraid of Hell. However, I do fear the LORD, and rightfully so. Look at what He's capable of...

 

I'm not a Christian because I'm shaking in fear of going to Hell.

 

Christianity is not a religion of fear

[KT45]

Arent' you going to address hans post or continue the avoid the hard questions?

[Eponymic]

Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb have no reason to be afraid of Hell. I can't prove I'm not afraid of Hell. However, I do fear the LORD, and rightfully so. Look at what He's capable of...

 

I'm not a Christian because I'm shaking in fear of going to Hell.

 

Christianity is not a religion of fear

 

It's not a religion of fear...

yet you fear your own God.

 

 

And that's not a religion of fear because....?

[Everglaze]

Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb have no reason to be afraid of Hell. I can't prove I'm not afraid of Hell. However, I do fear the LORD, and rightfully so. Look at what He's capable of...

 

I'm not a Christian because I'm shaking in fear of going to Hell.

 

Christianity is not a religion of fear

 

Wow! What a load of oxymoron! Okay, so you're not afraid of Hell, but you're afraid of God? Because of his capabilities? One of them primarily being "sending people to Hell"? Christianity is not a religion of fear? You fear God? Do I see a connection somehow all linking to fear and Christianity? Yes.

 

You fear God ---> God sends people to ---> Hell.

 

^^^ That's the cycle that you created.

 

The whole purpose behind following God is so that you won't go to Hell. That whole love concept comes AFTERWARDs. No one can just begin loving something without a reason. In order to love your Jesus imaginary friend, you'd first have to know why he died on that freakin' cross. It was so that you wouldn't go to Hell, right?

[Scott]

HanSolo, the rich man in Luke 16 felt great concern for His family when he was in hell, but there was nothing he could do about it.

So, he didn't feel love, but he hated his family sooooo much, that during his extreme pain and suffering he didn't think of himself, but his hate drove him so much as to ask if Abraham could make sure his family knew about Hell so he didn't have to have them around too. I guess it was plain selfishness that made him ask for this, since his family were a pain in the ass and would have made Hell even worse... Then Hell maybe isn't the worst thing there is?

 

Or...

 

Maybe he did care and love his family so much that he didn't want them to suffer the same. According to the Bible, love comes from God, so if you're "cut off from God's love" as you said, then the rich man should not have felt love for his family. Unless, you can admit the Bible being wrong about love having its source in God, but love being an attribute outside of God's nature.

 

Either way, it doesn't fit.

 

 

No offence, but that's a load of crap. No one can tell me that my experiences are not real. You don't even know fully of what I went through. I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of going to Hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

I can prove you wrong...

 

 

Your experiences were/are not real.

 

 

See, I could, I did, so you're wrong to say that no one can tell you that. You might not agree, but for sure someone can express it.

 

 

If you love Jesus, and Hell doesn't scare you, then I suggest that you either do one of the following things (or both):

1. Sign up for a deadly experiment that could lead to save and heal thousands of people. Your life isn't that important, and you know where you're going anyway. So there's nothing for you to be scared of. But there's a lot of extra brownie points to gain by doing this. God will give you a big hug for it.

2. You could ask God to send you to Hell in the place of lets say 1000 people that are going to Hell. Doing something like Jesus did. When you die, you go to Hell (that isn't so scary for you), and you'll save 1000 people that otherwise would have gone to Hell. I'm sure God will give you a big hug for this sacrifice too.

 

I would say he made that request just so he could get out of hell.

I said I wasn't afraid of hell because the blood of Jesus covers me, and that's the only reason.

 

 

Those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb have no reason to be afraid of Hell. I can't prove I'm not afraid of Hell. However, I do fear the LORD, and rightfully so. Look at what He's capable of...

 

I'm not a Christian because I'm shaking in fear of going to Hell.

 

Christianity is not a religion of fear

 

Wow! What a load of oxymoron! Okay, so you're not afraid of Hell, but you're afraid of God? Because of his capabilities? One of them primarily being "sending people to Hell"? Christianity is not a religion of fear? You fear God? Do I see a connection somehow all linking to fear and Christianity? Yes.

 

You fear God ---> God sends people to ---> Hell.

 

^^^ That's the cycle that you created.

 

The whole purpose behind following God is so that you won't go to Hell. That whole love concept comes AFTERWARDs. No one can just begin loving something without a reason. In order to love your Jesus imaginary friend, you'd first have to know why he died on that freakin' cross. It was so that you wouldn't go to Hell, right?

 

I would love Him for providing a way to escape hell.

[KT45]

I would love Him for providing a way to escape hell.

Do you love him for creating it in the first place?

[Dhampir]

I would say he made that request just so he could get out of hell.

Where does it say or even implicitly state that?

[Scott]

I need to say something before I reply to the other posts. Many times 'Gehenna" is used to describe the Lake of Fire. In Gehenna {which is in Jerusalem}, the fire never went out, but continuely burned trash. Perhaps the idea of the Lake of Fire has been misinterpreted. The fire may never go out, but the people or souls burn up.

 

Taylork, I love God period. Sometimes I have doubts, or even question His justice, but I do believe in Him, and I believe He is Good.

 

Dhampir, wouldn't you say anything to get out of Hell?

[KT45]

Taylork, I love God period. Sometimes I have doubts, or even question His justice, but I do believe in Him, and I believe He is Good.

Okay since you love god period then you love God for creating hell.

 

I need to say something before I reply to the other posts. Many times 'Gehenna" is used to describe the Lake of Fire. In Gehenna {which is in Jerusalem}, the fire never went out, but continuely burned trash. Perhaps the idea of the Lake of Fire has been misinterpreted. The fire may never go out, but the people or souls burn up.

You make a lot of assumptions. The bible doesn't say souls burn up in hell forever. The bible doesn't even say souls stay in hell forever. The whole doctrine of hell is stupid.

 

here go debate with the universalist christians and show them that hell is real!

http://www.tentmaker.org/topics/hell.html (articles)

http://www.tentmaker.org/smf/ (Forum)

 

Or go to the jewish website and show them that hell is real!!

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/phpBB2/index.php (forum)

 

Since you like studying and learning these are great places to start.

[Dhampir]

Dhampir, wouldn't you say anything to get out of Hell?

Okay, but where does it say that?

[Scott]

In the Bible, when an unbeliever dies, he goes to hell. On the Final Day of Judgment the lost souls will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. I didn't say souls burn up in hell forever. I said, when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, it is very possible they will just burn up into nothingess, much like Gehenna, which was continuely burning, but all the crap that was thrown in there was just burned up.

[mwc]

I need to say something before I reply to the other posts. Many times 'Gehenna" is used to describe the Lake of Fire. In Gehenna {which is in Jerusalem}, the fire never went out, but continuely burned trash. Perhaps the idea of the Lake of Fire has been misinterpreted. The fire may never go out, but the people or souls burn up.

Twelve times to be exact. Seven in Matthew. Three in Mark. Once in Luke and once in James.

 

The idea of the Lake of Fire most likely originated from the Book of Enoch (which describes a similar scene) and not from Gehenna (a trash dump). It's quite a leap from one to the other.

 

The concept of Sheol, being simply death and burial, certainly became altered and joined with the idea of Gehenna. At one point the entrance to Sheol was believed to be in the Valley of Gehenna. This place is "hell-like" but after a time one could come back from it. This is "distance from god" and it takes certain "sins" to go here. Some who do go to Sheol (the enemy of the Jews such as Babylonians) simply go and burn to dust.

 

The xian "hell" you speak of grew out of the combination of these concepts and the pagan concepts of Hades as well. There is no single idea for you to look to which is why you (and xianity as a whole) are having such a difficult time forming a unified view of this thing you call hell.

 

mwc

[KT45]

I said, when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, it is very possible they will just burn up into nothingess

assumption

[pandora]

 

 

Taylork, I love God period. Sometimes I have doubts, or even question His justice, but I do believe in Him, and I believe He is Good.

 

 

 

You sound just like an abused spouse... battered wife syndrome, or someone who starts empathasizing with their captors (I forget what it's called).

 

I feel bad for you... I remember thinking that way, and life is much easier not having to convince myself that such unjust justice is somehow right.

[Japedo]

I need to say something before I reply to the other posts. Many times 'Gehenna" is used to describe the Lake of Fire. In Gehenna {which is in Jerusalem}, the fire never went out, but continuely burned trash. Perhaps the idea of the Lake of Fire has been misinterpreted. The fire may never go out, but the people or souls burn up.

 

Taylork, I love God period. Sometimes I have doubts, or even question His justice, but I do believe in Him, and I believe He is Good.

 

Dhampir, wouldn't you say anything to get out of Hell?

 

Just how long do you think a fair punishment would be for any crime Scott? Even here on our mortal earth, our mortal laws have more compassion then your skygod. You love god for not burning you to death? Do you love him still even though he sends a loved one there to roast for eternity, biggest crime being doubt? Are you going to be able to love and worship a god that somehow saves your sorry weak ass but burns a person that questions? Give me a fuckn break, All I keep seeing you say is how to save your own selfish ass. I see little to no bother about any loved ones who stand and question and demand answers even "IF" hell were to exist. Being in a heaven would be hell for me anyway, I love my family and friends to much to leave them there as I move on up to the asscrack of an evil god. You have Zero concept of Justice, Zero Concept of Love, more over you have zero concept of what's right if this is what you accept.

[Scott]

That's why I'm beginning to think those in the Lake of Fire will just burn into nothingness. Eternal suffering seems strange to me. And God has no problem with us questioning. In the Bible Jesus says to sit down and see if you can really follow Him to the finish or not. If you can't follow Him to the finish then don't even begin. God is willing to save any and all who call on the Name of His Son. I love my family more than anything on this earth, and for those who are not Christians, I have pled for them to come to Christ {namely, my sister}. In the end, it is there descision. In answer to your question, yes. I still love God.

[Antlerman]

Maybe he did care and love his family so much that he didn't want them to suffer the same. According to the Bible, love comes from God, so if you're "cut off from God's love" as you said, then the rich man should not have felt love for his family. Unless, you can admit the Bible being wrong about love having its source in God, but love being an attribute outside of God's nature.

 

Either way, it doesn't fit.

 

I would say he made that request just so he could get out of hell.

Once again, hermenutics anus style: straight out of the shaft there Please, I mean please, please, please support some of this interpretation with anything legitamate, like other scholars, language, context, contemporary traditions, authors, etc, etc, etc. I could equally say he said it because he was trying selfishly to get a cheese burger from the arch angel Michael, but without support its utter nonsense.

 

Of course it does reveal your overwhwelming desire to HAVE and answer. If you were really comfortable about this stuff, you would say something like, "Gee Hans, that's really interesting. I'm not sure. Let me look into this." But instead... you make something up like this. Fascinating.

[Japedo]

That's why I'm beginning to think those in the Lake of Fire will just burn into nothingness. Eternal suffering seems strange to me. And God has no problem with us questioning. In the Bible Jesus says to sit down and see if you can really follow Him to the finish or not. If you can't follow Him to the finish then don't even begin. God is willing to save any and all who call on the Name of His Son. I love my family more than anything on this earth, and for those who are not Christians, I have pled for them to come to Christ {namely, my sister}. In the end, it is there descision. In answer to your question, yes. I still love God.

 

Wow.. you can love someone/something who can torture or kill your sister? How very fucked up. The matter of factness of Oh well, her choice shows how much you lack integrity and character if you truly believed hell existed. How can you blindly follow any doctrine that would kill or torture someone you loved based upon a beliefs alone? Do you think you're somehow winning points for Christ here Scott? I remember even as a child how hysterical I use to become at the thought of my dad being left behind,or burning for eternity. It is a scar that I don't think I will ever be able to get rid of. You truly then are a follower of the Luke 14 Verse because you would have to absolutely hate and despise humankind as a whole to be able to live with yourself in the hereafter. That in my book makes you evil, not good.

 

You don't have the first clue how to question honestly. The only "questions" you allow are the pre approved doctrine ones, anything that questions god, Christ, Heaven or hell is equivalent to doubt and not having faith. How can you follow to the finish if you're not allowed to look at every aspect of fact vs. faith? You are prohibited from looking into pagan religions not because they are evil, but because it will show you verbatim that your "Truth" is a Lie... that your Light is a darkness... that your songod is a revamped Sungod. How can you look for answers if you have a Gun to your head? If someone holds a gun to your head and says... Love me or Die... is that "love" really love? Hell is the gun to the head, and there is no Love or justice in this scenario. You have an extremely long ass way to go before you even come close to asking "real" questions.

 

Remember this, Thoes that have all the answers scott, are no longer looking for them.

[Scott]

Japedo, you don't even know how it is. I do love my sister. Jesus calls us to love Him more; above all. That doesn't come naturally, and I'm still working on that. I could be wrong, but I think every Christian is still working on that. God will not and does not torcher or kill my sister or anyone. The second death is the consequence for sin.

[Japedo]

Japedo, you don't even know how it is. I do love my sister. Jesus calls us to love Him more; above all. That doesn't come naturally, and I'm still working on that. I could be wrong, but I think every Christian is still working on that. God will not and does not torcher or kill my sister or anyone. The second death is the consequence for sin.

 

 

MOTHER OF FKN PEARL! Then what was the fucking Purpose of the Cross if not for the CONSEQUENCE OF SIN??? Is it a greater SIN to have doubt then to kill another? Is Doubt even listed as a "SIN"??? The Murder can be forgiven if only he admits he believes.. what kinda convoluted BULLSHIT Is this??? This is yet another of your failed reasoning. It doesn't hold water or reason on any working scale. I do not call it Love when you can blindly follow someone who can harm, or Kill even if it is at your sisters WILL... (which it isn't)

[nick5]

Jesus calls us to love Him more; above all. That doesn't come naturally

 

That's because the designer is an incompetent retard.

Assuming he's real of course.

Which he isn't.

 

Actually, despite the fact that jesus is a fictional character, he has all the characteristics of a good cult leader. Being able to make himself more important than EVERYTHING else is an primordial quality for those type of people. Same goes for their ability to have people believe their absurd ideas no matter how stupid and wrong those ideas are.

 

The second death is the consequence for sin.

A rule installed by your demon god. It's his fault that those innocent people are being burned. He is the one responsible for their torture, and no amount of your twisted christian logic will make me change my mind about that.

[Scott]

Japedo, everyone has to accept a gift before it can be of any use. We have to believe in Jesus to wash away our sins to be saved. We have to accept His Gift. Doubt is not a sin. I don't recall where, but in the Bible a man said to Jesus "I believe. Help my unbelief!". So, it's more of a weakness than a sin.