My People Are Destroyed By Lack Of Knowledge

[KT45]

btw: great job so far on the FAQ, Taylor.

Thanks I thought no one was reading it!!!

[Scott]

Taylork, I don't know the people on this forum, and I don't know why they feel God wasn't there for them. I just know my own experiences and God has been there for me and my family through some very difficult times.

What specifically have you experienced that would lead you to believe YHWH exist that couldn't have any other possible explaination?

 

#1.The first thing is not my own testimony, but my mother's. When she had her first child, it was born dead. Yes, this seems like a bad thing, and I wish I could have met my oldest sister. But my mom said she had perfect peace in the Lord while she was going through this. #2.While she was a child, she saw Jesus in the sky, clothed in white robes. I saw Him when I was a child too, but I don't remember it being as detailed as her account. #3. People in my family are known for seeing spiritual beings. #4. God has given me perfect peace on more than one occasion. #5. Prayer has worked in my family many times.

 

 

We are not worthy of the love of Jesus, yet He freely gives it and offers it.

That is the very lie that makes the cult of Christianity fit only for the dustbin. There is not, and never was, any such thing as Original Sin. We are entitled to all the love that finds us in our all-too-short lives, and woe betide any man or woman who teaches otherwise.

 

 

He doesn't commit crimes. We are the ones worthy of death, not Him. Who are we to judge the Judge of the universe?

I do, in this very moment. And you are fucking powerless to stop me.

 

#1. We are not worthy of the love of Jesus. We do not deserve it.

 

#2. There is such thing as original sin. It's called pride.

 

#3. Woe to anyone who teaches any other gospel than that of Jesus Christ.

 

#4. I never said I could stop you, but it is the hight of arrogance and truly blasphemous to think you are good enough or high enough to judge Almighty God.

[roman]

Poor Scotty. At 18, he has already studied scripture for a very long time.

 

But if he had been studying scriptures since he was old enough to read words longer than four letters, that would not be a long time.

 

But he doesn't know that he is crippled and using crutches, or that he is addicted and using drugs.

 

I think he needs an older man in his life. To show him some stuff.

 

Let's all admit it. He is amusing, and we are having a great time. What would this board be without idiots like this one strolling in, occasionally?

 

Let's do the time warp, again.

[Astreja]

#1. Take a long, hard look at the suffering in your life, Scott. Most of it is being caused by the belief that you can never be good enough for this world or for your imaginary friend.

 

#2. Pride is part of self-awareness and a necessary part of our lives. It is not a cosmic crime deserving of punishment in an imaginary flaming pit.

 

#3. Well, so far there has been remarkably little "woe" in my life and enormous and ever-increasing weal. My Buddhist and heiðinn and humanist ethics inform and enrich not only my life but the lives of family, friends and total strangers alike. And I'm pleased to say that not once in my 49 years have I unnerved any people of my acquaintance by threatening to Fed-Ex them to Gehenna and points south. No concerns there at all.

 

#4. I am infinitely good enough and high enough to judge and dismiss a hypothetical and self-contradictory imaginary being. And, young lad, so are you if you would but realize it.

[Scott]

#1. Astreja, I never said I wasn't good enough for this world. I said I didn't deserve the love of Jesus. I wasn't worthy. But by His shed blood, He has made me, and anyone who will call upon Him, worthy.

 

#2. Pride is a sin against God. The first sinner was Lucifer who wanted to be God and he was thrown out of heaven. About the "flaming pit", I believe once a person goes to this "pit", they are completely destroyed.

 

#3. There hasn't really been any woes in my life either. Now, do you think Christians like preaching about hell? I can't speak for all Christians, but I know I don't. I believe in annihilation, but I still don't like to think about never seeing some of my friends and family again. It's not a "believe like we do, or go to Hell!" scare tactic. I do not like teaching about hell, but it is a part of my faith, and I am convinced it is that truth.

 

#4. Anyone's high enough to dismiss something they know to be phony. Let's say, for the sake of conversation, that God is actually real? What then?

[Astreja]

#1. Astreja, I never said I wasn't good enough for this world. I said I didn't deserve the love of Jesus.

I see no difference. In either case you are artificially lowering yourself to no good effect.

#2. Pride is a sin against God.

I disagree. A supposedly all-powerful being cannot be injured by anything we do. Therefore, it is not possible to "sin against God." Period.

#3. There hasn't really been any woes in my life either.

I do find that a little hard to believe, but I understand that you're a lot younger than me. Wait for it.

Now, do you think Christians like preaching about hell?

I think that a lot of them do, yes. I think they get off on the power rush of scaring people into agreeing with them.

#4. Anyone's high enough to dismiss something they know to be phony. Let's say, for the sake of conversation, that God is actually real? What then?

Assuming the being described in the Bible... I would be honour-bound to fight it to my last breath regardless of the cost to myself. I see the deity of the Bible as evil, not good.

[roman]

Here is another question for you, Scott.

 

Why are you attempting to teach, when you don't even know how to be a student?

 

You are not smart enough to talk to some of these people. You should be listening

 

You are not wise enough to talk to some of these people. You should be listening.

 

You have no knowledge to impart to these people. You should be listening.

 

You have what is called "the arrogance of youth." It is a transitory disease, one that many here have already gone through. It is best to let this disease run its course in silence.

 

Many here understand you better than you understand yourself. You are no different from many others that these people have encountered many times already.

 

Predictably, you think you know something, and your church and your "pastor" are using you to further their own ends. Like you, they believe that they are doing the right thing.

 

At this board, you are little more than a temporary amusement. You are being played with, like a new toy. That is what you are, in fact.

 

Once upon a time, a novice monk was invited to tea with a Zen Master. In this highly-ritualized tea ceremony, the novice lifted his cup, to be filled by the Master...who filled it to overflowing, and kept pouring.

 

"Master!" the young monk cried. "The cup is already full and will hold no more!"

 

"Just so," replied the Master. "It is the same with your mind. It is already full, and will hold no more."

[SkepticOfBible]

It will take a long time to read and study all the things I can to prove Christianity is true, but it is possible. I believe it is, I think I can prove it, and I believe my faith will be stronger after I do prove it.

 

If you so into proving

 

Then please prove the following on any of the Jewish Forum

 

1)That Jesus is prophesied messiah of the Hebrew Scripture/OT

2)The NT is continued revelation of the OT and that your Canon is the correct one out of the 8 different Canon in the world

3)That Christianity is the in fact a sect of Judaism, rather than a cult

 

Here are the websites

 

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/phpBB2/index.php

http://p069.ezboard.com/fmessiahtruthfrm1

 

Here is a bit of challenge offcourse, you are not allowed to prostelise/evangelise on these forums. So if you can convince a orthodox Jew on any one of your main theological doctrine(Trinity, Original Sin, Jesus dying for your sin) through discussions, then maybe I'll look at your claims more seriously

 

Good luck and please keep us posted

[Thackerie]

... I believe with everything that is in me that Christianity is true. Regardless of all the debates about the timing of the rapture or if hell is symbolic or not; all the theological debates. I also believe it can be proven. It will take a long time to read and study all the things I can to prove Christianity is true, but it is possible. I believe it is, I think I can prove it, and I believe my faith will be stronger after I do prove it.

 

God Bless

 

By all means...go for it, Scott. ...if you can come up with credible, verifiable extrabiblical evidence for the existence of jesus as the christ; if you can provide evidence that heaven and hell are real; if you can show me a soul, or an angel...I guarantee you will have my undivided attention.

 

I don’t care if Scott is only 18 and comes off sounding like a pompous ass in some of his posts, I would be thrilled if he – or any one – could prove the existence of a loving god. And, I think a lot of the other members on this site would feel the same way. After all, for many of us, it was the search for a connection with god that led us to Christianity in the first place and, even after that particular path came to a dead end, many of us continue to search on other paths, or at least remain hopeful.

 

Of course, it’s a daunting challenge that Scott has set for himself. I think he is smart enough to realize that merely quoting bible verses and Christian apologetics does not amount to proof and that telling us to have “faith” in the absence of real, verifiable evidence is a cop-out. By now, he must have also figured out that we won’t be persuaded by anecdotes about how he or his family and friends felt Jesus’s love during hard times or became better people because of their belief, since we of a rational-minded bent see those as subjective and self-induced feelings.

 

I hope he is also smart enough to understand that our disbelief does not result from stubbornness and pride. If I could will myself to believe, I would – and I tried to do so for longer than Scott has been alive – but I finally had to acknowledge that I cannot believe in something unless I have a good, sound reason to think it exists. If someone could point me to that reason, I’d be grateful.

 

Scott, I don’t expect you to come back with your proof any time soon. In fact, it could take years, decades even, for you to study the god-question from ALL sides, not to mention acquiring an education (as opposed to a one-sided indoctrination) in history, linguistics, and the cultural and political issues that pertain to this topic. (Note that I said the “god-question,” not the Jesus-question; even if you could prove the existence of a loving god, it would still take a tremendous effort to prove that that god is the one described in any version of the Christian bible, so I won’t hold you to that task.)

 

If you achieve what no human on earth has been able to do, by that time this site may no longer exist (heck, the internet itself may be a thing of the past by then), but I’m sure those of us old geezers who are still living and coherent will hear about your accomplishment – and so will the entire world. So, have at it, Scott!

[Antlerman]

Call it scare tactics if you will, but it is going to happen. It's funny about the last part of your post, "or be blind for life". You say we are blind, yet the Bible says you are blind. I think I'm gonna have to go with the Bible, there.

Yes it is quite amazing how the sayings of Jesus apply to fundamentalists the most, when it is they who use them for themselves against everyone else. There is a true lesson in their for you to uncover. Hint: Who were the Pharisees and how are the fundamentalists just like them? Maybe the sayings of Jesus were against organized religion and that being born again and being able to see out of blindness has to do with breaking the shackles of religion?

 

Scott, I don't mean to come across as superior or arrogant. However you do come across to me as being a young... a very young... know it all.

 

I don't mean to sound like a "know it all" either. But what is considered being a know it all.

I'll help you out here. A know it all is someone who talks like it has it all figured out and demonstrates this attitude by not considering other points of view as being possibly valid and his own possibly not. This describes well what I think all of us are seeing with you Scott.

 

I will always consider information you offer. Granted, I already have considered most of you have said as it is nothing new and follows the standard "canned" responses that have already be dealt with a thousand times before, but if you should ever offer a thought of your own, I will instantly recognize it and give it due and respectful consideration.

[Amanda]

To the Christians - The Bible says "My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge".

Scott, have you ever thought this statement was being directed to the religous right? Just something to be thinking about, that's all.

 

Perhaps we need more knowledge of history and whatnot to make a sound case for Christianity.

Good for you Scott! I came on here thinking I knew that too. Please research history, anthropology, mythology and more to prove your case... however, be brave enough to accept the Truth... even if it is not what you thought it was. :wink:

 

I also believe it can be proven. It will take a long time to read and study all the things I can to prove Christianity is true, but it is possible. I believe it is, I think I can prove it, and I believe my faith will be stronger after I do prove it.

Scott, your faith will be stronger, however... it will be very different than it is right now. Go into this and study with an open mind, because how can the Truth be a bad thing? I came on here sure that most were wrong about many things, but the more I researched to prove them wrong, the more I realized that most were right.

 

May I suggest to forget about labels. Consider people's assertions as if there are no sides, only discussion. Read the Bible in a manner it has to make sense. Changing your faith is different than completely abandoning it. It's about maturing, IMHO. I still think there are a lot of wonderful things in the Bible, yet, I've changed tremendously a lot of what I use to think coming onto this site... and I think I'm a better person for it. Stay here continuing to interact, instead of react, and you may find your self on a wonderful spiritual journey! It wasn't always easy for me though... I felt some shaky grounds more than once. I think it was more moving off the sand and onto the rock though.

[Antlerman]

On the Day of Judgment, He will pay back in full what the wickedness of this world has done.

A new thought just occured to me here Scott, In the day of judgment he will pay back in full the wickedness the world has done, and lets add this, he will also damn everyone who has also done good in the world too. Yes that's right Scott, you've said it yourself. It's filthy, used mestrual tampons to God according to how you read the Bible. Yet isn't it amazing how you paint a portrait of God's judgement being against what you think is evil?

 

You are overlooking his wrath against the all the loving, kind, merciful, peacemakers in this world who just happen to think your pastor is a parrot of ill thought out theology. So let's restate what you just said, "On the Day of Judgement, He will destroy indescimately all human beings, both good and bad for not adopting Scotts view of truth". Praise God!!!

 

You tell me to show some respect, yet people around here continuely bash Christians?

Who bashes Christians? Not me.

 

Here is another question for you, Scott.

 

Why are you attempting to teach, when you don't even know how to be a student?

 

You are not smart enough to talk to some of these people. You should be listening

 

You are not wise enough to talk to some of these people. You should be listening.

 

You have no knowledge to impart to these people. You should be listening.

 

You have what is called "the arrogance of youth." It is a transitory disease, one that many here have already gone through. It is best to let this disease run its course in silence.

 

Many here understand you better than you understand yourself. You are no different from many others that these people have encountered many times already.

 

Predictably, you think you know something, and your church and your "pastor" are using you to further their own ends. Like you, they believe that they are doing the right thing.

 

At this board, you are little more than a temporary amusement. You are being played with, like a new toy. That is what you are, in fact.

 

Once upon a time, a novice monk was invited to tea with a Zen Master. In this highly-ritualized tea ceremony, the novice lifted his cup, to be filled by the Master...who filled it to overflowing, and kept pouring.

 

"Master!" the young monk cried. "The cup is already full and will hold no more!"

 

"Just so," replied the Master. "It is the same with your mind. It is already full, and will hold no more."

That was a wonderful post!

[Warrior_of_god]

Scot, let me ask something. If god is so loving and kind then he would have done anything in his power to stop 9/11 correct? Well what if he didnt have to do anything? What if we had evidence that something was going to happen? Former FBI agent John Oneil did. Yet he was stonewalled by his agency for stupid things such as using a company car for "personal" things. He was stonewalled by the US ambassador to Yemen because of his aggresive investigation into the USS Cole bombing. He was eventually fired by the FBI for not doing things their way. You know where he got a job? At the WTC as security manager. He helped get many people out on 9/11 and was killed as the South tower fell. And your god did nothing, could he have at least saved one person? Instead he let nearly 3000 citizens die... Im sorry, wheres your just god?

 

Scott, you are someone who has fallen to false promises and propaganda...and even Joseph Goebbels would be proud of THIS propaganda. Youve swallowed it and try to get others to do so too. If you were a fish youd try to get other fish to swallow the hook and tell them it was good for them.

[Ramen666]

Scott must be at church right now praising the lawd. So don't expect him on for a while. He is dodging questions and just saying " The Bible is right Amen.". I didn't know how low some Christians are ,at least Amy Marie thinks...but Scott is a whole different story. I am on here to learn more about Christianity and religion. I am not acting like a know at all Scott. I am still learning myself so don't act like you are a philospher. When these people are educated and have greater knowlege than you.

 

 

( Waits for Scott to insult me some more but doesn't care anymore )

[Piprus]

#3. There hasn't really been any woes in my life either. Now, do you think Christians like preaching about hell? I can't speak for all Christians, but I know I don't. I believe in annihilation, but I still don't like to think about never seeing some of my friends and family again. It's not a "believe like we do, or go to Hell!" scare tactic. I do not like teaching about hell, but it is a part of my faith, and I am convinced it is that truth.

 

#4. Anyone's high enough to dismiss something they know to be phony. Let's say, for the sake of conversation, that God is actually real? What then?

 

Oh, you're damn right they like preaching about hell. And so do you, as your posts have shown. And it most certainly is a believe like we do, or go to hell scare tactic. It's a cornerstone of fundie doctrine, and has been for centuries. The threat of eternal hell has been wielded like a club by the clergy of your miscreant "faith".

 

You are not being intellectually honest, and I think it is because you are simply confused. You have a little knowledge, a lot of feeling, and almost no discipline of thought. You are a reactor, not a scholar.

 

And, if on some outside chance, YOUR god turns out to be the real one, I for one couldn't stand to be in the presence of such an evil monstrosity for five minutes, much less an eternity. My moral principles wouldn't stand for it.

 

The doctrine of hell scared me into christianity, albeit as a child of only ten, and that very idea was one of many that led me out of it. And when it happened, Lyndon Johnson was still the president. So I've been an ex-christian for longer than you've been alive, but on this site I'm an intellectual dwarf in comparison with others here who are far more learned on the topic than I. You would do well do listen and learn instead of engaging in feebly attempting to defend what you're incapable of defending. You are way out of your league here.

 

“God, so atrocious in the Old Testament, so attractive in the New -- the Jekyll and Hyde of sacred romance.” (Mark Twain)

[KT45]

Scott must be at church right now praising the lawd. So don't expect him on for a while.

He is probably giving his testimony too. I wonder what it would sound like

 

Pastor: Does anyone in the congregation have a testimony?

Scott: I got a testimony pastor (jumps out of chair and starts waving his hands)

Pastor: Preach boy Preach!!!!

Scott: (Scott snatches mic) Yesterday church I was attacked.

Audience: GASP!!!!

Scott: And I was attacked in the worst kind of way....spiritually. But the LAWD is a good and mighty God

Pastor: Preach boy Preach!!!

Scott: (Scott jumps on a pew) A they attacked me with lies, insulted me and tried to crush my faith.

Audience: Oh My!

Scott: Oh yes! But thankfully church I was unmoved!!!! Because I knew I had JEEZZUUSS on my side. Oh whose side?

Audience: On my Side.

Scott: On whose side?

Audience: On My Side!

Scott: On whose side?

Audience: (wishing he would STFU) ON MY SIDE

Scott: Praise JEZUSS!! (jumps off of pew) And guess what I defend all of there lies. All of there truths were defeated (grabs some old ladies bible and holds it in the air) with the word of GAWD!!!!! Because I know, that all of you know, that I've been studying for 18 years (since he was born. I mean Jesus was filling him with knowledge even then) know and nothing they could say could harm me. AND I WON THE DEBATE! How could I lose WITH JEEZZUS ON MY SIDE

(Music starts playing)

Scott: Uh Oh. I'm feeling something church. I'm feeling it!!! IT'S THE HOLLY SPIRIT!!!!!

(Scott does the holy ghost stomp and is happy that the church sees him as a hero. For he is a perfect example of how good studying and debate can sway any force to fail under JEZZUS' Name.)

 

-EDIT- Revised it a little

[Ramen666]

Scott must be at church right now praising the lawd. So don't expect him on for a while.

He is probably giving his testimony too. I wonder what it would sound like

 

Pastor: Does anyone in the congregation have a testimony?

Scott: I got a testimony pastor (jumps out of chair and starts waving his hands)

Pastor: Preach boy Preach!!!!

Scott: (Scott snatches mic) Yesterday church I was attacked.

Audience: GASP!!!!

Scott: And I was attacked in the worst kind of way spiritually. But the LAWD is a good and mighty God

Pastor: Preach boy Preach!!!

Scott: (Scott jumps on a pew) A they attacked me with lies, insulted me and tried to crush my faith.

Audience: Oh My!

Scott: Oh yes! But thankfully church I was unmoved!!!! Because I knew I had JEEZZUUSS on my side. Oh whose side?

Audience: On my Side.

Scott: On whose side?

Audience: On My Side!

Scott: On whose side?

Audience: (wishing he would STFU) ON MY SIDE

Scott: Praise JEZUSS!! (jumps off of pew) And guess what I defend all of there lies. All of there truths (grabs some old ladies bible and holds it in the air) with the word of GAWD!!!!! Because I know that all of you know that I've been studying for years know and nothing they could say could harm me. AND I WON THE DEBATE! How could I lose WITH JEEZZUS ON MY SIDE

(Music starts playing)

Scott: Uh Oh. I'm feeling something church. I'm feeling it!!! IT'S THE HOLLY SPIRIT!!!!!

(Scott does the holy ghost stomp and is happy that the church sees him as a hero. For he is a perfect example of how good studying and debate can sway any force to fail under JEZZUS' Name.)

 

OMG THAT IS SO FUNNY

[KT45]

Sorry double post

 

Anyway I always loved how people in church got the Holy Spirit right when the music started playing. It's like they got it on CUE or something.

[All Gods Fail]

Do you hate Santa Claus, and Unicorns, and ... oh-oh... You Cute Bunny Hater!!! You hate The Holy Cute Bunny! I knew it! There's so much proof that the Holy Cute Bunny created this world, and you hate her! Blasphemer!

 

 

Scott is a heretic?

 

Burn the blasphemer! Death to all enemies of the Cute Bunny™!!!

[KT45]

Do you hate Santa Claus, and Unicorns, and ... oh-oh... You Cute Bunny Hater!!! You hate The Holy Cute Bunny! I knew it! There's so much proof that the Holy Cute Bunny created this world, and you hate her! Blasphemer!

 

 

Scott is a heretic?

 

Burn the blasphemer! Death to all enemies of the Cute Bunny™!!!

NOOOO WWTCBD?

[Ramen666]

Part II of Scott at Church

 

Preacher- Jesus is the one the Holy one

 

Scott- Amen!

 

Preacher- He died for your sins which we are undeservin

 

Scott- Ugh huh

 

Preacher- ( Holds up Bible) This is the only the truth the whole truth

 

Scott- Amen...Amen...

 

Preacher- These books are all lies ( Pulls out Quaran and tossess it to the floor) Those people will suffer eternal damnation!

 

Scott- (Scott stands up) Gays, and non Christians to I know a few

 

Preacher- Did you spread the word

 

Scott- Oh I spread the word...they are so close minded...

 

Preacher- They were never Christian

 

Scott- Amen they never had the faith

 

Preacher- HOLY OH HOLY JEEZUS CHRIST (SINGS)

 

Scott- (sings ) Ohhhhh HOLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

 

(Chor behind Scott singing)

 

Preacher- IN THE NAME OF THE LAWD

 

Scott- He was there when I won those debates he is my life and everywhere SWEET JEEZUS!

 

( Scott hugs preacher) - You know everything

 

Preacher- Ya I just got a high school education level

 

Scott starts kissing Preacher- Thanks for the word.....oh GOD AMEN!

[KT45]

Scott starts kissing Preacher- Thanks for the word.....oh GOD AMEN!

I hoped that happened after service was over!

[Antlerman]

You know I hear a lot about his pastor, like he almost worships the man. This really smells like cult to me.

 

I have an idea. Let's have Scott invite his pastor to these discussions. Scott of course may participate, but it will be interesting to see how direct questions and challenges are dealt with first hand, rather than a very convincing sales pitch from behind the pulpit with the support of his rock band, rhythmically clapping audience and general euphoric atmosphere of self induced ecstasy. Easy to look good in a room full of rock star fans, another thing in the real world.

 

This all sounds like an isolated youth with a bad case of Pastor Worship.

[Amanda]

I have an idea. Let's have Scott invite his pastor to these discussions. Scott of course may participate, but it will be interesting to see how direct questions and challenges are dealt with first hand, rather than a very convincing sales pitch from behind the pulpit with the support of his rock band, rhythmically clapping audience and general euphoric atmosphere of self induced ecstasy. Easy to look good in a room full of rock star fans, another thing in the real world.

 

Yeah Antlerman, but the world is going to hell... and they are going to heaven, remember?

 

They're trying to save all of us too! If we'd only just follow them. Ironically, they really have good intentions. If they only knew, they were the ones needing saving. Sometimes I wonder if there aren't some feelings of "being special" that they don't want to let go of too.

[Ramen666]

That would be an intersting thing bring the pastor here. That would be a good argument with that man. ( Yes he does worship that pastor I notice.) Let his pastor step on the front lines of debate.Instead of the parrot ,Scott.