My People Are Destroyed By Lack Of Knowledge

[Antlerman]

Greetings everyone, I'm Donjared

I am a "still sort of a Christian" is the best way I can describe it. I still believe there is a God but don't know that it is very involved in our lives. I hesitate to label myself because I change my mind as I learn new things. But at this point, Deist will work I suppose.

 

I felt inclined to respond to Scott because I feel some pity for the fellow. Are you all so vitriolic because Scott is a troll. Or is this anger just the normal response for admitted Christians? If so, that's kind of a drag. Christians can be cool to talk too, why scare'em away?

Greetings Donjared. I think you answered your question to us yourself at the end of your post, how what you see in negative responses are really coming from attitudes of patronization and condensation that we are presented with as being ExChristians, such as stating we were never really sincere in our beliefs as Christians, for if we had been true Christians we would never leave the faith, tossing Bible verses into our face that we not only know, but could quote back with 20 more for him. So yes, attitudes like this do elicit less than patient responses.

 

Nonetheless, I strive to rise about the self-righteous and show grace where none is deserved, for in so doing you shall heap coals of fire...

 

Seriously though, I appreciate your post. You are right about the whole Josh McDowell thing. People like him have fashioned together some of the more systematic arguments for faith, but they still when examined do not hold up or bring any sway. You are right it is about the heart and is about a choice of what speaks to you, and "evidence that demands a verdict", is not only an utter fallacy, but completely a moot point when it comes to logically transcendent world views.

 

Thanks for you post. I look forward to you continued participation in these threads.

[Ramen666]

True the pastor could be a good guy. But the pastor doesn't know everything Scott. I don't know everything and many intelligent people don't have all the answers. He is a man just like everyone else. He has flawed thoughts just like everybody. However only difference he believes what you believe. You follow his teaches and almost treat him as he were Jesus. You have idiolized your pastor. Maybe not on purpose but you are doing that.

 

You said he knows the Bible...It's his interpretation you are following. Just like all the donominations. When I was a Christian, ya the pastor was a good guy ( I guess) But I didn't worship him. He was just teaching his own interpretation for it. The pastor doesn't know everything and you need to be aware that because you are idiolizing him like Jesus. Becuase Jesus had all the answers.

 

Here is a little thing ask me 5 things you asked him about the Bible and I could answer it. But it is my interpretation. You would insult me and call me wrong. You ask him you agree 110% hands down and not question a single thing. Christianity doesn't want you to question your beliefs and you don't because of Gawd is watching you as you read this.

 

Take God / and your pastor out of the equation without those two could you live your life normal or is there a need for these two people like a drug? With the absense of these two people or things could you be moral could you stand for what is right without God telling you what to do.

 

I'm not worshipping Him. Believe me, I know he's not Jesus, and he does too. I just like him because he has helped me alot in my Christian walk. And no, you could not answer my questions, because you have rejected the Faith. The Faith says God must be just and He does send people to Hell {whether annihilation or not}, yet you would call Him evil. I do question alot of things. I no longer question my belief in God or the fact that Jesus Christ is His Son. What do you mean, could I make it without God? I could make it without my Pastor, but I could not make it without God. Call it weakness if you will, or deception, or stupidity. But Christ is my strength. God is not my imaginery friend. He has proven Himself real to me so many times. In short, no. I could not make it without Him in my life.

 

 

 

At least we are getting somewhere. I have denied God..don't plan I worshiping him ever again. Yes I also believe he is evil. I am glad we are getting somewhere now. This is the arguments I like not you insulting me. Ok I have came to a couple conclusions just varify for me.

 

1. You can live without your preacher who tells you the word. ( Which you believe 110% true)

2. You can't live without God

 

However I think you can live without God, those are not bad things you did before you were a Christian. The Christians are making you feel the guilt. I think you can live without God. I live without God and I will tell you the honest truth. It feels a lot better...I feel more happy without God. It feel's like a breath of fresh air. A lot of people on here are better off without God than with God. Why is that Scott? Don't preach out of the Bible on that question from your own heart no one else telling you anything. Why are we more happy?

[Guest Donjared]

Feel pity for a fellow who has not the brain cells to register the idiocy of his assertions? Hmmm...I wouldn't. I haven't really encountered a Christian who is "cool" to talk to. As far as I know, they are all cognitively dissonant individuals who haven't the slightest idea what a discussion entails.[/b]

 

Hi Asimov

 

First of all, if an individual is to mentally challenged to register the idiocy of his assertions, then he/she above all others deserves our pity. After all empathy and compassion are Humanistic values as well as Christian ones.

 

Secondly, I'm saddened that your experience is limited to cognitively dissonant Christians. By that term do you mean that they are inconsistent in their arguments? I'm sure you you are right sometimes. I however have met some brilliant Christians that might impress you with their cognitive harmony. I still don't agree with them, but they aren't ignorant.

 

As to your assertion that I am intellectually dishonest, I can't wait to hear why. Maybe you can convince me of my hypocrisy

 

 

Thanks for the welcome Antlerman.

I look forward to being a part of the discussion. I understand your anger at the condecension. I must say that Scott has done that less than most. At least on this topic. I get a little riled at the ignorance sometimes, but then I remember that was me not so long ago.

[Scott]

True the pastor could be a good guy. But the pastor doesn't know everything Scott. I don't know everything and many intelligent people don't have all the answers. He is a man just like everyone else. He has flawed thoughts just like everybody. However only difference he believes what you believe. You follow his teaches and almost treat him as he were Jesus. You have idiolized your pastor. Maybe not on purpose but you are doing that.

 

You said he knows the Bible...It's his interpretation you are following. Just like all the donominations. When I was a Christian, ya the pastor was a good guy ( I guess) But I didn't worship him. He was just teaching his own interpretation for it. The pastor doesn't know everything and you need to be aware that because you are idiolizing him like Jesus. Becuase Jesus had all the answers.

 

Here is a little thing ask me 5 things you asked him about the Bible and I could answer it. But it is my interpretation. You would insult me and call me wrong. You ask him you agree 110% hands down and not question a single thing. Christianity doesn't want you to question your beliefs and you don't because of Gawd is watching you as you read this.

 

Take God / and your pastor out of the equation without those two could you live your life normal or is there a need for these two people like a drug? With the absense of these two people or things could you be moral could you stand for what is right without God telling you what to do.

 

I'm not worshipping Him. Believe me, I know he's not Jesus, and he does too. I just like him because he has helped me alot in my Christian walk. And no, you could not answer my questions, because you have rejected the Faith. The Faith says God must be just and He does send people to Hell {whether annihilation or not}, yet you would call Him evil. I do question alot of things. I no longer question my belief in God or the fact that Jesus Christ is His Son. What do you mean, could I make it without God? I could make it without my Pastor, but I could not make it without God. Call it weakness if you will, or deception, or stupidity. But Christ is my strength. God is not my imaginery friend. He has proven Himself real to me so many times. In short, no. I could not make it without Him in my life.

 

 

 

At least we are getting somewhere. I have denied God..don't plan I worshiping him ever again. Yes I also believe he is evil. I am glad we are getting somewhere now. This is the arguments I like not you insulting me. Ok I have came to a couple conclusions just varify for me.

 

1. You can live without your preacher who tells you the word. ( Which you believe 110% true)

2. You can't live without God

 

However I think you can live without God, those are not bad things you did before you were a Christian. The Christians are making you feel the guilt. I think you can live without God. I live without God and I will tell you the honest truth. It feels a lot better...I feel more happy without God. It feel's like a breath of fresh air. A lot of people on here are better off without God than with God. Why is that Scott? Don't preach out of the Bible on that question from your own heart no one else telling you anything. Why are we more happy?

 

I like discussions without people insulting eachother, too.

 

1. Yes.

 

2. Correct.

 

Christians aren't making me feel guilt. I don't even hang around other believers that much, and even then, I am free to disagree with them. I don't know why you are more happy without God. I don't understand it because, to me, God is so real. I could never reject God again, like I've done in the past. He's too real. I love Him.

[Asimov]

Hi Asimov

 

First of all, if an individual is to mentally challenged to register the idiocy of his assertions, then he/she above all others deserves our pity. After all empathy and compassion are Humanistic values as well as Christian ones.

 

I'm not a humanist, so what's your point?

 

Secondly, I'm saddened that your experience is limited to cognitively dissonant Christians. By that term do you mean that they are inconsistent in their arguments? I'm sure you you are right sometimes. I however have met some brilliant Christians that might impress you with their cognitive harmony. I still don't agree with them, but they aren't ignorant.

 

Brilliant in what way?

 

As to your assertion that I am intellectually dishonest, I can't wait to hear why. Maybe you can convince me of my hypocrisy

 

I can try, but not on this thread.

[Lizard]

I don't know why you are more happy without God. I don't understand it because, to me, God is so real. I could never reject God again, like I've done in the past. He's too real. I love Him.

The huge gorilla in the back seat was real to my BIL too..just before they locked him up in the state hospital..

 

Ok..coming in on page 6, hate doing that, but I just got back into town from the beach.

 

I'm much happier also, Scott. I hated the guilt all the time..placed there by "well-meaning" xtians, who were also self proclaimed prophets.

 

Free to think what I choose, enjoy life as I choose. Including..spending the morning at the beach watching the sunrise rather than wondering what to wear to church..then, taking a nap during the time most were in church..at least those who go to church.

 

I don't need a god to tell me I'm doing something "wrong." The biblegod would declare that my pretty butterfly tat is wrong, no? Its a work of art..not an "evil" thing. Evil would be pushing someone off the pier this morning, as I watched the sunrise..

 

So..where is your proof that the words penned 2000 years ago are Truth?

 

And..can you define soon?

[Checkmate]

.......

I don't know why you are more happy without God. I don't understand it because, to me, God is so real. I could never reject God again, like I've done in the past. He's too real. I love Him.

Hmph. Let me see if I can clear up this confusion for you by superimposing a few words in your statement....

"I don't know why you are more happy without Allah/Krishna/Santa Claus. I don't understand it, because, to me, Allah/Krishna/Santa Claus is so real. I could never reject Allah/Krishna/Santa Claus again, like I've done in the past. He's too real. I love him."

 

I'm not being sarcastic or disrespectful at all. I'm simply trying to open your eyes to a reality that you, Scott, seem totally blind.

 

Stephen Roberts said, "I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

You claim that your belief in YOUR god makes you happy. Fine. NO ONE here wishes to argue this with you. (Remember, it is YOU who entered into OUR domain, seeking to challenge OUR peace of mind.) You also state that you don't understand why we're happy without god. Well, I ask you, why SHOULDN'T we be happy? Is that so wrong? Is that so evil? You seem to be doing well despite your refusal to accept Allah. Why is OUR happiness, therefore, beyond your comprehension?

 

Shorter answer...We don't NEED your god, nor anyone else's, to be happy.

 

It just isn't necessary. And this is the crux of your dilemma. It TROUBLES you to accept our happiness. You want to believe that we are lying. You want to believe that we're secretly harboring some defect, anger or illness of the soul without your god. Well, sorry to break the news to you, Scotty boy, but we're doing just ducky without Jesus/Jehovah/Allah/Krishna and that jolly old man, St. Nick.

 

Sorry if that doesn't fit into the mold that you and your pastor have created for us. Get over it.

 

Just this weekend I visited with some old friends and their family. And for some bizarre reason, this essentially heretofore NON-religious, but nominal Christian family chose to bring up my atheism and religion throught the evening's discourse. One of their grown children said to me, "So, you're an atheist." I answered, "Yep." She says, "So...how's that working out for you?" I caught the sarcastic tone. She was obviously operating from some preconceived notion that all atheists were miserable and just one episode away from slitting their wrists.

 

I ignored the implied barb and just volleyed back at her, "I'm doing great, especially since I don't have to be bothered with worrying about some invisible sky spook looking over my shoulder and judging me. Contrary to popular beliefs," I continued, "atheists have just as much fun and enjoy life as do you god-believers. Perhaps more since we don't carry around all your baggage." She shut up and let the subject drop for the rest of the night.

 

Scott, if you can't "understand" how we can be happy, then might I suggest that YOU go somewhere else and deal with YOUR mental shortcomings? It's not that hard. It is very EASY to be happy without make-believe creatures littering our mental landscape. (You do it everyday when it comes to Allah, right?) Coping with REALITY isn't so bad once you grow up and quit sucking your thumb.

[Markkasan]

I don't know about you, but I'm not so much of a "want to be accepted", socially deprived imbecile that I would need the acceptance of people I don't even know. People who have denied the Faith, nonetheless. Your words are useless to me, because you have been blinded by the god of this world {2 Cor. 4:4}. Of course, since you first believed, yet denied the Faith, you might be blinded forever.

 

Yes, I believed in God and foolishly hated him. The Bible calls anyone who is not with Him against Him. And that means you are a hater of God.

 

Oh, and I don't witness to people who deliberately deny the Faith. That is definately not my job, or the job of any Christian.

 

Well, shiver me timbers! The all-knowing, all-faithful Scott actually got a little angy! As if telling me that I am blinded by the god of the world is going to work. Instead of putting something new forwards, you revert to a "you are blinded by the god of the world" routine. Believe me, I know all the tricks you people use. And you back that up with a little tidbit that I will be blinded forever. What, are you trying to scare me? I am afraid of no ghost, god, or boogie man in the closet.

 

There is no God. Therefore, there is no God to hate or love. It's a matter of reality that you can't hate something that isn't real.

 

That part about not witnessing to people who deny the Faith is horseshit. It says right in the text that you quote so aptly that it is the duty of all Christians to be the ambassador of Christ to people. To evangelize, to witness to the world.

[Scott]

I don't know about you, but I'm not so much of a "want to be accepted", socially deprived imbecile that I would need the acceptance of people I don't even know. People who have denied the Faith, nonetheless. Your words are useless to me, because you have been blinded by the god of this world {2 Cor. 4:4}. Of course, since you first believed, yet denied the Faith, you might be blinded forever.

 

Yes, I believed in God and foolishly hated him. The Bible calls anyone who is not with Him against Him. And that means you are a hater of God.

 

Oh, and I don't witness to people who deliberately deny the Faith. That is definately not my job, or the job of any Christian.

 

Well, shiver me timbers! The all-knowing, all-faithful Scott actually got a little angy! As if telling me that I am blinded by the god of the world is going to work. Instead of putting something new forwards, you revert to a "you are blinded by the god of the world" routine. Believe me, I know all the tricks you people use. And you back that up with a little tidbit that I will be blinded forever. What, are you trying to scare me? I am afraid of no ghost, god, or boogie man in the closet.

 

There is no God. Therefore, there is no God to hate or love. It's a matter of reality that you can't hate something that isn't real.

 

That part about not witnessing to people who deny the Faith is horseshit. It says right in the text that you quote so aptly that it is the duty of all Christians to be the ambassador of Christ to people. To evangelize, to witness to the world.

 

No, not really. We are to "make disciples of all nations". Not witness to those who deny the Faith. Paul calls them "worse than an unbeliever". I'm also not trying to scare you. I'm just telling you the facts. Now, if you deny the Faith, and you ere never in the Faith {you may have even thought you were}, that's a different story. And no, I'm not saying you all were never Christians.

[Vigile]

 

Alright then. But do you know how many people set out to disprove Christianity and became Christians? I believe I can prove the existence of God and Jesus as being the Christ. IF God is real, and IF Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, then we can go by His teachings to see if heaven, hell, angels, and demons are real.

 

No, how many? and who? C. S Lewis?

 

You forgot that jack ass Pat Boone wanna be Josh McDowell. Now there's a deep thinker for you.

[Vigile]

I felt inclined to respond to Scott because I feel some pity for the fellow. Are you all so vitriolic because Scott is a troll. Or is this anger just the normal response for admitted Christians? If so, that's kind of a drag. Christians can be cool to talk too, why scare'em away?

 

Because Scott's brand of xianity is as contemptable as any other self-elevating ism that makes the claim of not just superiority of belief, but superiority of self. Scott's faith has stiffled any trace of human empathy he might have otherwise had and he propagates a damaging system of belief.

 

There is of course a desire at this time in history to adopt a live and let live posture with religion, but the concept is not applied evenly. The teachigns of those who propagate racial superiority are not tolerated, so why tolerate Scott's nonsense when a good argument can be made that his intolerance can prove to be more virilic.

 

I met a Korean Presbiterian pastor here in St. Petersburg the other day. Sitting down with him for a cup of coffee I learned that after just 100 short years of missionary work in Korea, fully 40% of that country has now shed Buddhism for Christianity.

 

And it's not as if Christians suffer persecution. We are but a handful who actually let them know our disgust for their beliefs. Normally they have their way in the world with only self-imagined incidences of mistreatment; mainly when they don't get some level of special treatment they are looking for.

 

Finally, I'll argue that I put in my time and I, like the Dentist on Seinfeld who converted to Judiasm in order to tell Jewish jokes, have a right after spending what amounts to still more than half my life in Scott's shoes.

 

Ps, no offense to you Don Jared, just stating my position.

[Piprus]

I don't know about you, but I'm not so much of a "want to be accepted", socially deprived imbecile that I would need the acceptance of people I don't even know. People who have denied the Faith, nonetheless. Your words are useless to me, because you have been blinded by the god of this world {2 Cor. 4:4}. Of course, since you first believed, yet denied the Faith, you might be blinded forever.

 

Yes, I believed in God and foolishly hated him. The Bible calls anyone who is not with Him against Him. And that means you are a hater of God.

 

Oh, and I don't witness to people who deliberately deny the Faith. That is definately not my job, or the job of any Christian.

 

Well, shiver me timbers! The all-knowing, all-faithful Scott actually got a little angy! As if telling me that I am blinded by the god of the world is going to work. Instead of putting something new forwards, you revert to a "you are blinded by the god of the world" routine. Believe me, I know all the tricks you people use. And you back that up with a little tidbit that I will be blinded forever. What, are you trying to scare me? I am afraid of no ghost, god, or boogie man in the closet.

 

There is no God. Therefore, there is no God to hate or love. It's a matter of reality that you can't hate something that isn't real.

 

That part about not witnessing to people who deny the Faith is horseshit. It says right in the text that you quote so aptly that it is the duty of all Christians to be the ambassador of Christ to people. To evangelize, to witness to the world.

 

No, not really. We are to "make disciples of all nations". Not witness to those who deny the Faith. Paul calls them "worse than an unbeliever". I'm also not trying to scare you. I'm just telling you the facts. Now, if you deny the Faith, and you ere never in the Faith {you may have even thought you were}, that's a different story. And no, I'm not saying you all were never Christians.

 

Oh yes you did, Scotty...on August 29, on another thread, you posted this:

First I would like to say, there is no such thing as an "exchristian". You may think you are, but in the Biblical sense of the word, you were never really Christians, if you truly denied the Faith.

 

Now you've done it, Scott...you lied. You sinned. You not only sinned you broke one of the TEN. I am VERY upset with you, boy. It appears you need a trip to the woodshed. Assume the position!

[KT45]

Now you've done it, Scott...you lied. You sinned. You not only sinned you broke one of the TEN. I am VERY upset with you, boy. It appears you need a trip to the woodshed. Assume the position!

Damn Piprus you didn't have to hit him that hard!!!

[Piprus]

I don't know why you are more happy without God. I don't understand it because, to me, God is so real. I could never reject God again, like I've done in the past. He's too real. I love Him.

 

Awwwww...

 

Well, I love my cigar. I guess that makes us even. We have something in common, no?

[Scott]

I don't know about you, but I'm not so much of a "want to be accepted", socially deprived imbecile that I would need the acceptance of people I don't even know. People who have denied the Faith, nonetheless. Your words are useless to me, because you have been blinded by the god of this world {2 Cor. 4:4}. Of course, since you first believed, yet denied the Faith, you might be blinded forever.

 

Yes, I believed in God and foolishly hated him. The Bible calls anyone who is not with Him against Him. And that means you are a hater of God.

 

Oh, and I don't witness to people who deliberately deny the Faith. That is definately not my job, or the job of any Christian.

 

Well, shiver me timbers! The all-knowing, all-faithful Scott actually got a little angy! As if telling me that I am blinded by the god of the world is going to work. Instead of putting something new forwards, you revert to a "you are blinded by the god of the world" routine. Believe me, I know all the tricks you people use. And you back that up with a little tidbit that I will be blinded forever. What, are you trying to scare me? I am afraid of no ghost, god, or boogie man in the closet.

 

There is no God. Therefore, there is no God to hate or love. It's a matter of reality that you can't hate something that isn't real.

 

That part about not witnessing to people who deny the Faith is horseshit. It says right in the text that you quote so aptly that it is the duty of all Christians to be the ambassador of Christ to people. To evangelize, to witness to the world.

 

No, not really. We are to "make disciples of all nations". Not witness to those who deny the Faith. Paul calls them "worse than an unbeliever". I'm also not trying to scare you. I'm just telling you the facts. Now, if you deny the Faith, and you ere never in the Faith {you may have even thought you were}, that's a different story. And no, I'm not saying you all were never Christians.

 

Oh yes you did, Scotty...on August 29, on another thread, you posted this:

First I would like to say, there is no such thing as an "exchristian". You may think you are, but in the Biblical sense of the word, you were never really Christians, if you truly denied the Faith.

 

Now you've done it, Scott...you lied. You sinned. You not only sinned you broke one of the TEN. I am VERY upset with you, boy. It appears you need a trip to the woodshed. Assume the position!

 

That's before I found other Scripture to prove otherwise.

[Guest Donjared]

Hi Asimov, I would like to respond

 

I'm not a humanist, so what's your point?

 

Sorry, I assumed if your values were not grounded in superstition, then you came to your conclusions through human experience. Empathy and compassion make sense for us humans to value. We all want to be understood and treated in a compassionate manner.

 

Brilliant in what way?

 

I was specifically referring to my uncle Nils Jansma who has a PhD in Engineering. He is a Bible believing Christian that co-authered a book with John Clayton called The Source. He and I are somewhat estranged at this time, but he is a very sharp tack. I suggest you pick up a copy of his book. I'm not plugging for him, truly he gets on my nerves, but he is an example of a "brilliant Christian". Another guy comes to mind, Francis S Collins. I just ordered his book The Language of God. Although I've never met him, I've heard him speak and read his lectures. He is the director of the International Human Genome Project (I think that's what it's called) and truly amazing to read. Specifically these two gentleman are brilliant in that they take nothing for granted, and don't try to ignore realities because these realities don't fit their worldview. It's interesting to note that neither my uncle or Collins believes in Creationism because it's just dumb science (no disresect implied).

 

I can try, but not on this thread.

 

Ok where then?

[Ouroboros]

Well, I love my cigar. I guess that makes us even. We have something in common, no?

Ah! Another cigar lover. I love briar pipes (tobacco) more nowadays, but sometimes break of the routine with a good ol' cigar. Better enjoy it before the unrighteous rightwing nutjobs outlaw it completely.

[Asimov]

Sorry, I assumed if your values were not grounded in superstition, then you came to your conclusions through human experience. Empathy and compassion make sense for us humans to value. We all want to be understood and treated in a compassionate manner.

 

I would rather be understood and treated in a rational manner. Compassion and empathy have it's places, but not always.

 

I was specifically referring to my uncle Nils Jansma who has a PhD in Engineering. He is a Bible believing Christian that co-authered a book with John Clayton called The Source. He and I are somewhat estranged at this time, but he is a very sharp tack. I suggest you pick up a copy of his book. I'm not plugging for him, truly he gets on my nerves, but he is an example of a "brilliant Christian". Another guy comes to mind, Francis S Collins. I just ordered his book The Language of God. Although I've never met him, I've heard him speak and read his lectures. He is the director of the International Human Genome Project (I think that's what it's called) and truly amazing to read. Specifically these two gentleman are brilliant in that they take nothing for granted, and don't try to ignore realities because these realities don't fit their worldview. It's interesting to note that neither my uncle or Collins believes in Creationism because it's just dumb science (no disresect implied).

 

I've heard of Francis Collins and I've seen his book at Chapters. It would be interesting to digress further about them but I have no knowledge of them. I would say at best William Lane Craig and Plantinga are the best I've seen. By all means disrespect Creationism.

 

Ok where then?

 

We can create a thread if you wish.

[Ouroboros]

That's before I found other Scripture to prove otherwise.

So were you a "true" Christian before or after you found that scripture?

 

Do you know if you have found all and understood all scriptures yet?

 

What if what you believe something else right now that is wrong, only because you haven't found the scripture that points it out?

[Piprus]

Well, I love my cigar. I guess that makes us even. We have something in common, no?

Ah! Another cigar lover. I love briar pipes (tobacco) more nowadays, but sometimes break of the routine with a good ol' cigar. Better enjoy it before the unrighteous rightwing nutjobs outlaw it completely.

 

Actually, I prefer pipes to cigars myself, but that's another thread for another site. Hail, brother!

 

That's before I found other Scripture to prove otherwise.

 

...care to share with us the process by which that marvelous mind of yours came up with this foundation-shattering tidbit of philosophical enlightenment?

[Ouroboros]

Actually, I prefer pipes to cigars myself, but that's another thread for another site. Hail, brother!

We do have a topic, hidden in the darkness of the dungeon of forgotten threads, that was about cigars and smoking. If you find it, you're welcome to post what your favorites are. I probably need to update it with some of my latest finds.

[Checkmate]

Okay. I re-read the OP and now I have questions: What the fuck is the purpose of this thread? Where is Scott, the thread starter, and when is he going to give us this "knowledge" that he's promised? And most importantly, Why shouldn't this thread be locked/deleted for wasting space?

 

So far, all I've read is a lot of chest thumping and bible beating as Scott makes CLAIMS that he knows best, yet he has proven NOTHING. And now we've been reduced to talking about cigar smoking? This is pointless.

 

Threads like this are the best argument for denying Christians the ability to start threads. They're just wasting bandwidth and jerking us around.

[Lorena Rodriguez]

#1.The first thing is not my own testimony, but my mother's. When she had her first child, it was born dead. Yes, this seems like a bad thing, and I wish I could have met my oldest sister. But my mom said she had perfect peace in the Lord while she was going through this.

 

I had two miscarriages within six months when I was a christian. And that helped me understand that bad things happen to EVERYONE. Non-christians also have miscarriages all the time and they get over it. They don't need god's help.

 

Non-christians have stillborn pregnancies, too, yet they understand that life deals good and bad things, and move on. No god needed.

 

 

#2.While she was a child, she saw Jesus in the sky, clothed in white robes. I saw Him when I was a child too, but I don't remember it being as detailed as her account. #3. People in my family are known for seeing spiritual beings.

 

That is mental illness, Scott, and mental illnes is hereditary. Shouldn't you be on medication? This is not an insult, it is sincere concern.

 

#4. God has given me perfect peace on more than one occasion. #5. Prayer has worked in my family many times.

 

I have more peace as a non-christian than I ever had as a christian. But my current peace is real. The peace I had as a christian I invented, so I could pretend I was following the lord.

[Asimov]

Another guy comes to mind, Francis S Collins. I just ordered his book The Language of God.

 

I went to Chapters and flipped to his section on Atheism. I wanted to throw the book in garbage because that's what it was....garbage.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he has no fucking idea what he's talking about in regards to other peoples belief systems. He accuses Dawkins of setting up a straw-man yet he himself is guilty of the same thing.

 

Reading that pissed me off so much, man.

[Ouroboros]

Here's a good review from Absolute Scientist podcasts of the Language of God: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?ht...nce/manning.mp3 (10.8 MB)