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Collective Responsibility


Matt
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I have many times read debates among people about the concept of originial sin and the punishment of those with it (being everyone). What strikes me is the frequency of the arguements that the blame is on 'us'. Christians always like to cite that 'we' are the ones to blame and are deserving of punishment. WE should be held reprehensible for Adam and Eves fiaskco. Does anyone else notice this? I have also not yet read a response to a Christian who has suggested this absurd reasoning. Their is no WE....WE did not eat the fruit...WE did not do the crime....WE are not deserving of the punishment of the originial crime. Any thoughts?.........I would also like to hear a Christian viewpoint on this concept of 'WE'

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Sure it's a strange concept. Especially if you consider that Jesus supposedly died to wash away or pay or whatever for that supposed sin, and there are Bible verses that say that "no son will be punished for the sins of the father."

 

And here's some food for thought, not all Christians agree on exactly if there is a original sin, and not all agree on how it is "transferred" either. How does a child inherit this original sin? By being alive? Wouldn't it be better if we established a law to abort all fetuses in Christian women? Then we'd save all those babies from going to Hell once and for all.

 

Christianity is such a beautiful theological mess.

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Well my understanding was that all people are sinners. If we ignore that age of accountablity bullshit then its clear that according to the bible everyone is deserving of punishment. So we dont have to use the term 'original sin' I guess. We can just say that everyone is apparently deserving of punishment (being unable to not sin in some way, mind you even breathing is probably a sin).

 

I also read a a post on another site bringing up the concept of abortion. Interestingly, although some people would find the reasoning behind this a bit sick: the post mentioned that abortion clinics are doing a beter job at saving people then any Billy Graham or Joyce Meyer. If the concept of age accountability, whatever the heck it is at, then by aborting the 'lives', they are instantly sending them to heaven.

 

So yeh, screw this concept of collective responsibility. They dont want to blame god for the whole shitmix, but in blaming us it makes god look even worse.

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I think the reason why the "Original Sin" concept was invented was to give a reason to why someone had to convert to the newly founded religion (Christianity). Because if anyone could be judged based on his good v bad deeds in life, then Christianity as a Church and political control tool wouldn't work. With the ability to say "believe in my Church and Religion or you go to Hell" give you more control over people than just "be a nice person and Santa Clause will give you presents."

 

Judaism and Islam are much more into the concept of "good deeds" salvation, and not "believe in such-and-such". That's the big difference I think between them. But if "believe in xyz" is the basis for the religion and to get the ticket to enter heavens gates, then good deeds are no-use. If it is "grace", then forgiveness and grace for what? Especially if you are a baby or under "age of accountability". And when is that age exactly? Supposedly only "God knows". So the best bet is to make someone a Christian at birth, baptize and pray and foster the baby to become a Christian in actions, and whooops, now you have Catolicism. What the heck will happen to Protestants then?

 

This is one of the many reasons why I find it hard to believe today. Jesus supposedly said that the "unity" and "love" between the followers would be the sign that it was from God, while today you can find as many theological ideas and differences as there are Christians. There's no unity, so by Jesus' own words, Christianity is *not* from God. In actuality, Atheism is more consistent and unified, hence it must be from God. ;)

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I just think it's quite funny that the Bible specifically states that sons are not to be punished for the sins of their fathers, but that's exactly what God supposedly does, on a grand scale.

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A random factoid, back in the day, "continual punishment" was a really big concept in justice systems. Making sure people suffered for their crimes in the longest and most horrible fashion possible was thought to be the best deterrent to keep the rabble in line. It's reflected in the Bible as a theme that pops up almost constantly throughout the entire book.

 

Fear and love are very powerful tools, and christianity is the champion at feeding it out of both hands. Keeping people thinking they have to "do" something to earn their salvation keeps the money rolling in and the faith strong. If it were as simple as Jesus dying and getting rid of sin, the faith would have died out a long time ago because it's supports are too weak to stand up to human intellect if it's allowed to idle about and actually THINK about this stuff.

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