A Very Arrogant And Infuriating Fundie

[OnceConvinced]

I've been visiting a Christian website off and on over the years and have to say that one Fundie in particular there is one of the most arrogant, stubborn, infuriating Fundamentalist Christians I have ever come across. He refuses to acknowledge when he is wrong, even when the proof is there.

 

I have a link here to a discussion thread and a debate.

 

http://www.christianviewpoints.com/message...sc&start=30

 

I started this thread (I am TooCynical there) and it went off track as threads tend to do. A guy called Quazar brought up the "Time machine Paradox" near the bottom of page three. (there's no real need to read anything before this) The Fundie this thread is inspired by is "RevJP". I just had to reply on the following page to this arrogant and hypocrital statement he made:

 

I find it extremely amusing when everyone puts God within the understanding and governing parameters of man.

 

We are linear, He is not. He is not bound by, nor subject to our parameters of time, etc. God is completely beyond our comprehension, yet He provides us glimpses of Him and His nature, and what we see necessarily leads us to that which we cannot understand, and then we stamp our feet and say "This is impossible because I can't understand it!"

 

You'll see my reply to this half way down page 4. From there, a big debate starts between us. I find he is notorious for side tracking when a difficult issue is placed in front of him. One of his tactics is to divert the subject onto something else, often by nitpicking some little comment you made that was really irrelevant to the topic at hand. This conversation is typical of what I am up against on this site with this guy.

 

I guess what I'd really like to know is

A) Is this guy a totally arrogant, ignorant, idiotic, blind fundamentalist Christian prat?

Was I right or wrong in my arguments?

C) Was I the stupid one?

 

I can handle any criticism by the way.... well I will handle it anyway.

 

This is typical of the debates I often have with this guy. I must admit, I am guilty of "tit for tat" and probably shouldn't let him bait me with his crap, but sometimes I just can't help it.

 

Here is another debate we had where he makes the ludicrous claim that waking up in the morning each day is a miracle.

 

http://www.christianviewpoints.com/message...sc&start=15

 

I'm arguing here on Page 2, that the bible promises we should see mircles today and that Christians should be able to survive snake bites. Then the Rev comes in to the debate and fireworks begin between me and him:

[mwc]

Okay, I only read the first thread so far and unless you're into masochism just stop talking to this guy. You will *never* score any points against him. Never ever...ever.

 

He uses language very deliberately as his weapon. Even in his last message to you he uses "deceased equine" instead of "dead horse." This is to establish his intellectual dominance over those around him. It appears the "normals" have quite a bit of respect for him and I'm sure this is one of the reasons. He talks "big." Although in the exhange you two had he said nothing. He kept you off-balance the whole time which sucked for you.

 

From the start he immediately put the "debate" on his terms. Which meant you had to "agree" that the bible was inerrant but inerrant on in a specific way. Since you disagreed the red-herrings came out and nothing more happened. The "debate" was still-born basically. The thing is I couldn't see how his "terms" fit the discussion at large anyway so I think he was just jerking you around. Anyhow, if this guy's part of who I think he is, then they believe the original, autographed documents were perfect and inerrant but all copies that have come after them have had errors introduced into them over time until we have what we have today. This gives them the "warm fuzzies" that there once was a "perfect" scripture at "some point" but without those originals there's no way of knowing how corrupt things have gotten and so on. It's really a silly position to argue from since he doesn't have the "inerrant" version to reference nor does he know the level of degradation. All we have are errant copies and that's all that matters. There's what you need to hammer home if you go against him because he can't present anything to the contrary (so expect red herrings).

 

I'll have to read the second discussion when I have more time. In the first one I'd say you were technically right but I would have let it go and pressed him more on the main issue since he seems to count on side-tracking you to show how "smart" he is. Don't fall for it. Address it, so he knows you're aware what's going on, and head back into the main topic. If he doesn't like it he can make more, hopefully better, objections then (because he's full of shit when he says he was clear when he asked for a definition...I sure didn't catch it...and you did a lot more than I would with that little essay you wrote).

 

mwc

[mwc]

Here is another debate we had where he makes the ludicrous claim that waking up in the morning each day is a miracle.

 

http://www.christianviewpoints.com/message...sc&start=15

 

I'm arguing here on Page 2, that the bible promises we should see mircles today and that Christians should be able to survive snake bites. Then the Rev comes in to the debate and fireworks begin between me and him:

You clearly did much better in this thread. This guy was getting upset by the end calling you "stupid" and all. Either he has some condition, or simply thinks he has a condition, where he should be dead and waking up is miraculous. Whatever. (Also, many atheists/agnostists like, say Stephen Hawking have lived far beyond the ages they should have died...if doctors don't understand why we're alive then why put so much "faith" into their predictions into when we'll die? Perhaps it's not so miraculous after all?). The fact that none of them had any miracles to offer up really made your point so I say be happy. You were far more civil than I would have been.

 

The funny thing is they all seemed to have forgotten that the petty shit they offered paled in comparison to the promise from jesus that the miracles that came after him would be even bigger and better. Also, I forget the book, but it also forgets the promise that says if someone is sick just bring them before the leaders of the church and have them prayed over and they *will* be healed. There's no maybe involved. Old RevJP could be cured of his ailment but ironically he'd probably see that promise as a test as well. So it's there to use but if you use it then it will not work because using it shows a lack of faith. So sad.

 

mwc

[weary traveler]

Also, I forget the book, but it also forgets the promise that says if someone is sick just bring them before the leaders of the church and have them prayed over and they *will* be healed. There's no maybe involved.

 

 

the book of James

 

I am having a similar debate with someone over the bible's inerrancy (or lack there of). It is AMAZING how many rationalizations folks will go through just to keep their belief in place, so you are not really wrong as far as I can see. It's just that there is a fear deep down in the person that says somethign like this "If this is really not the Word of God, then everything I know will come crumbling down...everything I based my life on, etc....No, it must be the Word of God because I WANT IT TO BE". Seems like you have that sorta guy on your hands. It is a challenge.

[Everglaze]

Yep, the guy has shown one of the single-most fine examples of Christian bias. It's either that guy's way or nothing.

 

Funny how so many Christians lose their patience over nothing. It's even funnier how they are actually defending nothing but their own stupidity. There seems to be a Bop Bag pattern flowing with Christians and the whole "you don't accept Jesus, you're a (insert obscenity here)" and continue in their hateful annoyance OR "why don't you believe in Jesus? I'll help you believe in him" annoyance. Either way, their answers contain severe lack of reason. Even a gorilla could do better.

[The Sage Nabooru]

Well, firstly, I feel that he has a point, myself. I think the very nature of God and Spirit cannot be defined, at least in the narrow terms we've built our world upon. In order ro deny God, you would first have to define what God is, and while it's easy to deny a bitter old guy sitting in the sky, it's much harder to deny something that emcompasses everything and more. My own personal thoughts.

 

The Bodhicharyavatara says, "Some people are like big children........arguing with these fools is like being angry at fire because it burns." There are various reasons why people are fundamentalists of all colors - I feel that overwhelmingly it is because of an ego problem. Everybody wants to be the one person that is always RIGHT. This goes for fundamentalist Christians, atheists, Muslims, Hindus, etc.

 

The point is there's no reason to try to get through to them. They simply cannot understand any kind of concept that could possibly place them in the category of being mistaken about something, or, God forbid, wrong. This is not some battle of wits, but a battle of egos. This person's goal is to convert as many people as possible to the idea that he knows everything. Your arguing with him only fans the flame (no pun intended).

 

Why waste time? There's a whole world out there. Let people get lost in their own little worlds that revolve entirely around their false perceptions of their own genius, because isn't it their loss, anyway?

[OnceConvinced]

Thanks all of you, I appreciate the time you took to look at those threads when there is already so much stuff on this site to get through. I must admit, you have reinforced some of the things I was thinking. I'm taking this opportunity to learn a little about what makes some hard core Fundies tick, and you're comments have been helpful. I can't believe that I was probably a lot like that guy at one stage.

 

I know I shouldn't let that guy bait me. But I think I am understanding now, how that guy (and others like him) operate.

 

It's interesting, I have been dealing with this guy on that site, one who really makes me want to retaliate and give him a dose of his own medicne. And on another site I go to I have the exact opposite, a Christian who is just so darn nice, understanding, gracious and non-judgemental, i feel guilty about arguing with her. LOL. You get the bad and the good where ever you go it seems.