X-Ray Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 1. Either God exists or pigs can fly. 2. Pigs cannot fly. 3. Therefore, God exists. I know this sounds ridiculous. I thought I would open with a bit of humor. This is an example of an argument that begs the question. While this argument is formally valid, only theists will accept its soundness. Before I start I would like to have a poll in order to get the general consensus of this site of the idea of the rationality of belief in God. A quote from the famous atheist philosopher, Kai Nielson: "For someone living in the twentieth century with a good philosophical and a good scientific education, who thinks carefully about the matter ... it is irrational to believe in God." Do you agree with this quote? Is it irrational to believe in God? Or do you think it is rational to believe in God? Feel free to eplain your position. Xavier Raymondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Yes. It is irrational to believe in God. Not only is the concept totally unsupported by rational thought, it is self-contradictory and meaningless as a concept, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Which god are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I STRONGLY agree with Kai Nielson when it comes to religions naked assertions. As far as a real godthingymabob? I will quote pitchu "I don't hold any concept of a god." Thats because there is no evidence of a godthingymabob. The burdon of proof is not on me. I am being rational in not believing in something for which there is no evidence. I have no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 This is better. I STRONGLY agree with Kai Nielson when it comes to religions naked assertions. As far as a real godthingymabob? I will quote pitchu "I don't hold any concept of a god." I have no evidence for a godthingymabob. I am being rational in not believing in something for which I have no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 It is about as rational to believe in the Christian God as Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. We realize at a young age that the latter two don't exist; yet, somehow, an omnipotent, benevolent (on all days that end in -y), irrational (in all days that end in -y), triplicate (yet somehow quadruple) Creator is perfectly fine to believe in past the age of eight? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peyton Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I've voted Rational. I still do to some extent believe in 'something' though quite what that is I don't know. I look all around me and the world does seem extremely well made and thought out. I may be barking up the wrong tree but I do feel something is at work here but I haven't seen it in any religion or spirituality I have delved into so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I've voted Rational. I still do to some extent believe in 'something' though quite what that is I don't know. I look all around me and the world does seem extremely well made and thought out. I may be barking up the wrong tree but I do feel something is at work here but I haven't seen it in any religion or spirituality I have delved into so far. The world might seem well made and organized, but yet there is a lot of superfluous and unused functions in nature. For instance the appendix, the tail bone, nipples on men, pseudo genes in the DNA, 99.99....% of the universe energy and mass in in far away galaxies, our body create half made vitamins so we need to eat food that includes them, and least but not least G.W. that's a given. So intelligent or perfect or designed ... Nah... In a couple of 100 years humans can create a smarter and more intelligent designed universe than God. So he should have taught us how to do it, and then left it to us. I voted that it’s Irrational to believe in a god. Just because of the lack of any indication that he should. (Even though, I don't deny I could be wrong) [edit] Sorry Peyton, I shouldn't have posted this message, because it's your belief and I think you're brave to stand for what you think, and in a poll I shouldn't be messing with someone, but let them speak. - Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Inasmuch as "god", in this context, means the christian idol, the answer is a clear "no, it's so irrational it boggles the mind". If we want to talk about a generic concept of a Divine force or entity, that's another case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I've voted Rational. I still do to some extent believe in 'something' though quite what that is I don't know. I look all around me and the world does seem extremely well made and thought out. I may be barking up the wrong tree but I do feel something is at work here but I haven't seen it in any religion or spirituality I have delved into so far. I'm sorry...but that sounds a little odd...How can you draw the conclusion that a sentient creator exists from what you observe in the universe? What does that mean? It doesn't explain anything, it doesn't answer any questions, and it's unsupported. What you view about the world "working extremely well" is the result of natural processes...nothing special or amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrosmith Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Do I believe there is a god? Yes. Do I believe it is the Christian god? Absolutely not. Do I believe its any god revealed through religion? Absolutely not. I agree with Thomas Paine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peyton Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I'm sorry...but that sounds a little odd...How can you draw the conclusion that a sentient creator exists from what you observe in the universe? What does that mean? It doesn't explain anything, it doesn't answer any questions, and it's unsupported. What you view about the world "working extremely well" is the result of natural processes...nothing special or amazing. A question was asked, which I answered. You may not like what I have to say but I have an entitlement to say it. I do believe in 'God' (whom I personally view as a Sentient Creator) though not the Christian model. You have your own views which you are entitled to, I don't cast aspersions about what you believe nor do I label your views 'odd' so why do so with me? I am merely answering a question that has been put to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 A question was asked, which I answered. You may not like what I have to say but I have an entitlement to say it. I do believe in 'God' (whom I personally view as a Sentient Creator) though not the Christian model. You have your own views which you are entitled to, I don't cast aspersions about what you believe nor do I label your views 'odd' so why do so with me? I am merely answering a question that has been put to the forum. I don't care if you label my views odd, and you shouldn't care if I do so to yours. I asked you a perfectly valid question with something that I thought was odd about your post, don't get so defensive about it. I has nothing to do with like or dislike, it has everything to do with trying to understand what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Irrational. Deities are negatively defined creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 With the CHristian Trinity in mind, I voted "irrational". But I do not think it is irrational, to believe in some kind of intelligent force at work in the nature, and to call this force "God". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I don't care if you label my views odd, and you shouldn't care if I do so to yours. I asked you a perfectly valid question with something that I thought was odd about your post, don't get so defensive about it. I has nothing to do with like or dislike, it has everything to do with trying to understand what you mean. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do I go about getting a red A? I am not very strong in philosophy. I suck at debate but would that matter? I want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 How do I go about getting a red A? I am not very strong in philosophy. I suck at debate but would that matter? I want one. ask the webmaster about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Thanks Asimov. I recognize some people from I.G. Now there are two forums that I am addicted to. I hope my grades don't slip. Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Hello Mr Niel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Hi-diddly-ho, neighborino! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAm_Lucifer Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 1. Either God exists or pigs can fly.2. Pigs cannot fly. 3. Therefore, God exists. I know this sounds ridiculous. I thought I would open with a bit of humor. This is an example of an argument that begs the question. While this argument is formally valid, only theists will accept its soundness. Your damn right about that. Only a theist can make sense of such rationalisation. "For someone living in the twentieth century with a good philosophical and a good scientific education, who thinks carefully about the matter ... it is irrational to believe in God." Do you agree with this quote? Is it irrational to believe in God? Or do you think it is rational to believe in God? Feel free to eplain your position. This actually got me thinking. Is belief in a god irrational? To be honest I'm not sure. There is no way to prove or disprove a god so how do you determine if it is rational to believe in one. So to answer the question "Is it irrational to believe in God?" I have to say I don't know. Unless of course you are talking about a specific God of a religion. These Gods are self defeated simply by their characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peyton Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I has nothing to do with like or dislike, it has everything to do with trying to understand what you mean. I don't think it matters what I say I mean, you are going to argue for the sake of it I feel. What I feel is what I feel, I'm not trying to force my views onto you, I was merely answering a question set by the poll, that is all. I have been respectful to you, you don't seem to be extending that same courtesy in return. I don't feel I should have to answer to you with regard to what I feel. I have answered as I believe and that is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dreamer Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I also believe in a sentient higher power or force that I guess could be called "God" or otherwise I wouldn't be a Deist. I think believing in a higher power/creating force of the universe is rational but maybe believing in the Christian god is irrational. --Dreamer-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Embrace the metaphor, not the metaphysics. I voted no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAm_Lucifer Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I also believe in a sentient higher power or force that I guess could be called "God" or otherwise I wouldn't be a Deist. I think believing in a higher power/creating force of the universe is rational but maybe believing in the Christian god is irrational. --Dreamer-- <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with this. However while it may not be irrational I find it rather unlikely. Imagine some "higher power" one day deciding "I think I'll start life today". It just seems wrong to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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