Guest Dreamer Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I didn't mean irrational, I guess I just meant believing in the Christian god so devoutly is a little strange, anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I voted irrational. But if someone “feels” that somehow the universe must have been “created,” then I cannot deny them that feeling. However, to give that “feeling” a form, a book, and a message, then YES, that is irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I don't think it matters what I say I mean, you are going to argue for the sake of it I feel. What I feel is what I feel, I'm not trying to force my views onto you, I was merely answering a question set by the poll, that is all. I have been respectful to you, you don't seem to be extending that same courtesy in return. I don't feel I should have to answer to you with regard to what I feel. I have answered as I believe and that is that. You're right. This thread was a poll, and not a discussion. Polls shouldn't entice arguments why someone believes a certain thing. The discussion is valid, but I think it should be done in a separate thread. Otherwise there is a risk that people with a minority view, will refuse to do the poll, and that would skew the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I also believe in a sentient higher power or force that I guess could be called "God" or otherwise I wouldn't be a Deist. I think believing in a higher power/creating force of the universe is rational but maybe believing in the Christian god is irrational. --Dreamer-- Welcome Dreamer! Beautiful Avatar… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Is belief in a god irrational? To be honest I'm not sure. There is no way to prove or disprove a god so how do you determine if it is rational to believe in one. So to answer the question "Is it irrational to believe in God?" I have to say I don't know. You can't prove or disprove Santa Clause either. What you can do is determine if the concept of god is falsifiable. It is not. For example, Einstein's theory of Relativity made predictions about the results of experiments. These experiments could have produced results that contradicted Einstein, so the theory was (and still is) falsifiable. In contrast, the theory that "the moon is populated by little green men who can read our minds and will hide whenever anyone on Earth looks for them, and will flee into deep space whenever a spacecraft comes near'' is not falsifiable: these green men are designed so that no one can ever see them. On the other hand, the theory that there are no little green men on the moon is scientific: you can disprove it by catching one. Similar arguments apply to abominable snow-persons, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster. Ala, it is therefore also scientific to theorize that there is no god. I also mentioned in another thread the test of simplicity. On one hand you have the improbable scenario that some intelligent being always existed - if he did not always exist, he had a creator and creator begat creator ad infinitum, ad nauseum until you find the ultimate. And, on the other hand you have raw matter. It is more simple to assume that matter always existed than it is to assume that an intelligent being always existed. It is not logical or rational to hold a concept of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dreamer Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Thanks for the welcome Hansolo, ya I'm kind of an observer as I don't post too much but I'll try posting more when I have ideas... I got that avatar out of one of the galleries, forget which one, o well. Gotta go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vanesa Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 What makes people assume God is an omnipotent spirit? God could very well have been some hyperadvanced life form that created our universe (or at least OUR universe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 What makes people assume God is an omnipotent spirit? God could very well have been some hyperadvanced life form that created our universe (or at least OUR universe). That’s why it’s irrational to believe in God. If you can’t even define his nature, how can you rationalize his existence? Is it rational to believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns? A believer in IPU would say so. I agree that God could be just a very intelligent super being in a parallel dimension. But that is still irrational, since I can’t argue or validate this belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 What makes people assume God is an omnipotent spirit? God could very well have been some hyperadvanced life form that created our universe (or at least OUR universe). This still begs a very large question. Where did the hyperadvanced life form come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vanesa Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I do not know where such a lifeform comes from. From what I have seen and experienced in my life, I have come to the conclusion that our universe is probably not a natural creation. It could very well be some science experiment in some hyperadvanced civilization. After all, scientists have proposed the idea of multiple universes, and perhaps our universe is a smaller one created by some intelligence, for what reason, I don't know. I do know that GOd depicted in the Bible, Quran, or whatever cute comic book religious people follow is impossible because the attributes given to God are contradictory and illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Rational? Irrational? I've found the line seperating the two to be far too fine to tread so lightly. A perfectly logical, rational thought can be conveyed in a very emotional way, making it sound very irrational. Meanwhile an illogical, irrational thought can be conveyed calmly and in a very rational manner, very believable in it's nature. True, these would merely be perceived as either rational or irrational, while the content itself would hold out it's true nature. While in... Crap, I've lost my train of thought entirely.Um... um... monkies! I suppose what I'm saying, is that a great deal of rationality/irrationality is merely what is perceived. Personally I'd rather ask "is it logical?" Which unfortunately I haven't determined an answer for, at least as far as I'm concerned. So I suppose my answer would be the same "I don't know yet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Rational? Irrational? I've found the line seperating the two to be far too fine to tread so lightly. A perfectly logical, rational thought can be conveyed in a very emotional way, making it sound very irrational. Meanwhile an illogical, irrational thought can be conveyed calmly and in a very rational manner, very believable in it's nature. True, these would merely be perceived as either rational or irrational, while the content itself would hold out it's true nature. While in... Crap, I've lost my train of thought entirely.Um... um... monkies! I suppose what I'm saying, is that a great deal of rationality/irrationality is merely what is perceived. Personally I'd rather ask "is it logical?" Which unfortunately I haven't determined an answer for, at least as far as I'm concerned. So I suppose my answer would be the same "I don't know yet". I think it’s rational to “not know”… so are Monkeys rational? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 As far as I'm concerned, yes. Yes they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marktaylor Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 I voted no. We are looking for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Ray Posted May 29, 2005 Author Share Posted May 29, 2005 Thanks for your replies. It sounds like the majority of people here believe belief in God is irrational, or at least the God of theism. I wanted to do this poll because it ties into my discussion of the Kalam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God which I believe shows that people are well within their epistemic rights for believing in God. Xavier Raymondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Thanks for your replies. It sounds like the majority of people here believe belief in God is irrational, or at least the God of theism. I wanted to do this poll because it ties into my discussion of the Kalam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God which I believe shows that people are well within their epistemic rights for believing in God. Xavier Raymondo Well your KCA is retarded, so no it doesn't show that people are well within their epistemic rights for belief. Don't go tootin your victory horn yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Well X-Ray is right if the Kalam argument holds, then it would be the rational proof of God. But unfortunately the Kalam argument postulates a theory that can't be proven. "Anything existing must have a cause", and it's based solely on observation of our world we live in. And according to the argument, God must be the one breaking that law, to create the world. Which proves that the postulate only applies to us, and can't be used to prove God. So the argument is hence wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 I think the idea of God is irrational...based on how I FEEL right now.....when I left christianity and all of that fell apart, I found that I have had a hard time believing in any supreme being. I actually hope I'm wrong though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 If there is a god, I haven't seen irrefutable proof of its existence yet. IMHO, it is irrational to believe in something when there is no proof. Even Martin Luther has admitted something along those lines, IIRC. I wanted to do this poll because it ties into my discussion of the Kalam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God which I believe shows that people are well within their epistemic rights for believing in God. I don't know about epistemic, but you have a right to believe whatever you want. Just please don't force others to believe the same thing when you can't prove it with scientific evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Irrational to belive in any mythological invisible being without extraordinary proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I believe it is ok if you believe in a god and ok if you do not. I voted yes because I don’t think a persons being irrational just cause they Think there is a god. Until I get solid, proof there is not a creator I will still believe in the possibility. Maybe the creators too busy with the universe too prove its real or maybe it is the universe and doesnt speak. creator may not be like us. I believe it is irrational too claim you know what And who creator is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Until I get solid, proof there is not a creator I will still believe in the possibility. But you see, that's rather the point isn't it? Believing in the possiblity of a god isn't irrational because of the lack of evidence either way. But asserting that there is a god under these circumstances most certainly is for exactly the same reason. IMOHO, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 But you see, that's rather the point isn't it? Believing in the possiblity of a god isn't irrational because of the lack of evidence either way. But asserting that there is a god under these circumstances most certainly is for exactly the same reason. IMOHO, 104844[/snapback] Bingo! That's it exactly, Skankboy. I voted 'irrational' for those exact reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I agree its irrational too assert what you cant prove Until I get solid, proof there is not a creator I will still believe in the possibility. But you see, that's rather the point isn't it? Believing in the possiblity of a god isn't irrational because of the lack of evidence either way. But asserting that there is a god under these circumstances most certainly is for exactly the same reason. IMOHO, 104844[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesman Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Wow, there are some great answers posted here. After reading them all, I have to conclude that rationality is realitive. To some it is rational, while to others it is not. But think about this, every culture in history, up until the age of enlightenment, has had some kind of religion, god, goddess, spirits, ect. Every one that I read about. So there must be something drawing people to believe. Is there a "God portion" of the brain? Is there a longing for the spiritual in out genetic make-up?, Or are we just trying to explain that which we do not understand? I can understand the logic of believing. I was a Christian for 30 years. I was raised to believe it, and I had others around me (parents, friends, ect) who supported that belief. It was only when I began to take a long, hard look at the bible through open eyes and an open mind, that it became irrational. So it's all in the mind of the beholder. Take care, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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