Influence of Christianity today

[Guest MacGyver]

I was reading earlier on this website about the historical reliability of faith in Christianity. There was a quote that in essence said that history is interpreted according to one's own presuppositions. I definitely agree and would say that the same applies to how we view the world we live in today. Christians are always complaining about how the pagan world view is taking over our culture while ExChristians believe the opposite. Which one is true? I would have to guess that the biggest reason that ExChristians believe that the right wing is on the rise is because of good ole' W. But is W even a christian? We obviously can't know that for sure, but we can know if he acts like one. Furthermore, why does what the government says matter. This entire site is devoted to the "FreeThinker" mentality- does that mean think freely when it comes to religion while being influenced by everything the government does? I submit that the FreeThinker "movement" is doing better than any movement today. We are in the postmodern era, the era where truth is relative. How can an "absolute" truth hold any weight today except with the "unintellectual Christian". So, to summarize, is our culture really moving towards the "Christian right" or is post-modernism winning the battle?

[Caretaker]

To be a freethinker is to have confidence in one's own ability to arrive at his or her own conclusions in any system. I like to verify statements before I accept them as truth. When it comes to Christianity, I see it as a whole array of assertions, but I have yet to see any real proof. It is a situation like this when my BS detector goes off.

[Caretaker]

Have you ever heard of 1984?

[Guest JP1283]

Nah. Christians are taking over.

 

Think about it. We can't even mention evolution in schools without people getting their panties in a twist because they believe in creationism. States are trying to outlaw gay marriage, even civil unions, because the Bible condemns homosexuality. By the way, Bush is definitely a Christian. I think that is for sure.

[Lizard]

The thing is, not all xtians are "unintellectual". I know many who are very intellectual and intelligent. They hold to their faith.

 

Now, if you are talking about the true fundamentalists, yes, they seem to be wearing blinders.

 

I think its waxing and waning, myself. I've seen people come and go in both communities. I've come and gone in both communities.

 

We do all see things through our own eyes, our own "perceptions", if you will. When times are tough, often you see a rise in "christianity"..I put that in quotes because is it true christianity, or simply a "fear response?" How many people, when reaching out to a higher power in times of stress, do the same in times of no stress? I'm betting not many.

 

Much like my grown children. When things are going fine in their lives, I may not hear from them for weeks. Then..out of the blue they may call or email. Yep..something has gone wrong.."mom, can ya help me out? I need a few bucks to get by."

 

Lately, my answer has been no..perhaps, if there is a god..his answer is no too? Or..perhaps, if there is a god, he just doesn't care about the mundane?

[Ouroboros]

I was reading earlier on this website about the historical reliability of faith in Christianity.  There was a quote that in essence said that history is interpreted according to one's own presuppositions.  I definitely agree and would say that the same applies to how we view the world we live in today.  Christians are always complaining about how the pagan world view is taking over our culture while ExChristians believe the opposite.  Which one is true?  I would have to guess that the biggest reason that ExChristians believe that the right wing is on the rise is because of good ole' W.  But is W even a christian?  We obviously can't know that for sure, but we can know if he acts like one.  Furthermore, why does what the government says matter.  This entire site is devoted to the "FreeThinker" mentality- does that mean think freely when it comes to religion while being influenced by everything the government does?  I submit that the FreeThinker "movement" is doing better than any movement today.  We are in the postmodern era, the era where truth is relative.  How can an "absolute" truth hold any weight today except with the "unintellectual Christian".  So, to summarize, is our culture really moving towards the "Christian right" or is post-modernism winning the battle?

 

That Christianity is becoming a greater factor in opinion and law making is without a doubt a reality in America today. I don’t think the number of religious people has changed radically, but the leaders have changed their way of using religion as a tool for their agenda.

 

Just look at one of the latest episodes of Law and Order, where the question was raised if a murderer that became a devout Christian should be punished, considering that he now have changed “way” and wouldn’t be a threat anymore.

 

Then the second question was raised, if that is so, should only non-Christians be put in prison for their crimes, and not Christians.

 

You know religion plays a bigger role now, when Bush outspokenly express his Biblical morals in private cases like Terri Shiavo. He also, after 9/11, said that a true patriot has to believe in God. And look at the question; if they should teach Intelligent Design in school concurrent with evolution.

 

These are the exact things the founding fathers wanted to avoid, mixing religious rhetoric into the political agenda. Everyone have the rights to their belief, and it can only be achieved if the politicians don’t push their belief on the people. This is also one of the reasons why we celebrate 4th of July, Independence from England, and its taxes and religious pressure. The British law system in the 18th and 19th century was filled with religious bias. They still have the blasphemy law in England, even though they never use it today.

 

Europe is going the opposite way; it’s becoming less and less religious and more atheistic, but it’s done by the choice of the people.

[Japedo]

I was reading earlier on this website about the historical reliability of faith in Christianity.  There was a quote that in essence said that history is interpreted according to one's own presuppositions.  I definitely agree and would say that the same applies to how we view the world we live in today.  Christians are always complaining about how the pagan world view is taking over our culture while ExChristians believe the opposite.  Which one is true?  I would have to guess that the biggest reason that ExChristians believe that the right wing is on the rise is because of good ole' W.  But is W even a christian?  We obviously can't know that for sure, but we can know if he acts like one.  Furthermore, why does what the government says matter.  This entire site is devoted to the "FreeThinker" mentality- does that mean think freely when it comes to religion while being influenced by everything the government does?  I submit that the FreeThinker "movement" is doing better than any movement today.  We are in the postmodern era, the era where truth is relative.  How can an "absolute" truth hold any weight today except with the "unintellectual Christian".  So, to summarize, is our culture really moving towards the "Christian right" or is post-modernism winning the battle?

 

Also know, that history is always written by the winners. One doesn't have to look at Government to judge Xtinaity. One only needs discernment and put the "bible" any interpretation on a fairness Trial.

 

Were people that were killed in the bible killed out of good judgment or evil wrath? Just because where they happened to be born or because they were truly guilty of something? When Jacob steals his brothers birthright, why does a "Fair and just god, who openly say's its wrong to steal, and its against his commandment reward him? why aren't gods chosen in the stories held to the same harsh (or Higher) standards ? Why do they get a "free pass"? These are stories of favoritism and very tribal. People of Tribal mentality will relate and see themselves justified no matter what their actions, that is the trueness of the bible.

 

In this country religious beliefs and governments are suppose to be two entire separate beings. I could care less if W's shoes talk to him. What scares me is he believes his Shoes (God) do talk to him and makes dictions based on it. What was that statement Al Gore said, 'There is no controlling Moral authority'. People were outraged at the statement, however the difference in W is although he never said the statement, He lives it fully, and escapes all responsibility for his actions. He believes his authority comes from on high, much like Jim Jones, and no matter what his actions are, they are right in the eyes of his God. It doesn't matter the truth, it doesn't matter the justice of it.

 

This war (like most wars) although said to favor 'God', goodness, freedom, Liberation et al is completely the opposite of its words. This war has passed Legislation that are a dictators best friend. We are becoming like Rome and Invading and conquering with zero evidence but lots of emotionalism. The real war is on our rights as we all become slaves to the government. Everything we do, say is becoming more monitored by the men behind the Curtin. Zealots are zealots thru emotionalism, Today go to the people in the RNC party and try to speak with rationality, you will automatically be labeled "un-American" unpatriotic, anti-American. Anything that isn't in toe with the war, support for the war, support for the leaders (in the name of the troops) of the war is denounced and dismissed with absurd propaganda, The "Troops" are a key piece in the propaganda tool. I want our troops home, I wish no harm on our military men and women, and I think its horrendous they are out there dying for W n' Companies chess game. I do not support the illegal war under any twisting of words. The fact that the half-assed elected leaders throw gods name in it, is only done for support reasons and nothing more. It's how you control the masses. Think about it, Hitler used the same god nonsense for his invasion. he was also going to liberate people from 'communism and 'evil'. Hitler didn't have massive support because he was known as Evil. Look into why Joseph Kennedy was ousted out of American Ambassador to Britain, he totally supported Hitler, not because of any "evil" but because he felt Hitler was right. This is also why many people relate w to Hitler. Hitler did massive amounts of massacres because people supported him blindly, no other reason.

 

As for the Pagan stuff, our country was founded on paganism. read this interesting tid bit.

 

The United States: A Country founded on Paganism

[Ouroboros]

Our constitution has been on my mind quite often lately.  In my head the words "the pursuit of happiness...."  ALL  people have the right to pursue happiness, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the right of others.  We certainly would never say that lying, stealing, murdering, committing crimes against humanity are a right for anyone.  A person doing one or all of those things should have their rights taken away.  OTH...a homosexual is ONLY sinful, according to the Bible.  Not just that, but the vast majority of even fundamentalist Christians that point out the "evil" homosexuals are living in sin also. i.e;  It's nothing for a Christian to sit and watch violent, sex filled, obscene, crude humor, movies and television shows.  A lot of their children are playing the "M" video games, while many non-christians wouldn't even think of allowing theirs to play.  What about celebrating Christmas and Easter and Halloween? Perhaps a good study of what makes god angry would be a real eye opener here.  Christians divorces are over 50%, they are living together just like unbelievers.  The FACT is, that you cannot tell, other than abortion and/or homosexuality that one is a Christian or UnChristian.  However, there are exceptions.

 

Back to the Constitution.  The fundamentalists Christians agree with "the pursuit of happiness" so long as it is happiness as defined per the Bible.  If we really look at the Constitution, it is not biblical at all.  If it were, we'd look a lot like third world countries.  Freedom would be gone, all but freedom to worship the Lord.  This country would be a theocracy.    Thank goodness that the founding fathers didn't use the Bible when designing the Constitution!  Thank goodness for freedom!  And in conjunction with Japedo (LOVE THE KITTY BTW!!!) , this country would look very much communistic.

 

I think that the Constitution is one of smartest decrees every written. It’s unfortunate that it has been hijacked and twisted, a la Orwell Animal Farm style, to become something else.

 

The Mormons in Utah have law that allows them to have several wives. Will this change now, because the main stream Christina sectarian right wing decides that it’s not in their interests anymore? Considering that homosexuality is going to become “non- constitutional” after Bush-ialists have had their say, then what about the other “non-main-stream-christian” activities and ideas in this country? Will they be “non-constitutional” too?

 

Will you be forced to pay 10% to your local Church soon?

 

Will they implement a Blasphemy Law in this Country?

 

Will it be illegal to vote if you don’t approve to neo-cons?

 

Just some questions…

 

The Constitution is one of the most beautiful documents in the World, it has to be protected and guarded from vandals bringing in and overriding it based on their own so-called-moral and policy.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Also know, that history is always  written by the winners.  One doesn't have to look at Government to judge Xtinaity.  One only needs discernment and put the "bible" any interpretation on a fairness Trial. 

 

Were people that were killed in the bible killed out of good judgment or evil wrath?  Just because where they happened to be born or because they were truly guilty of something?  When Jacob steals his brothers birthright, why does a "Fair and just god, who openly say's its wrong to steal, and its against his commandment reward him?  why aren't gods chosen in the stories held to the same harsh (or Higher)  standards ? Why do they get a "free pass"?  These are stories of favoritism and very tribal. People of Tribal mentality  will relate and see themselves justified no matter what their actions, that is the trueness of the bible.

 

In this country religious beliefs and governments  are suppose to be two entire separate beings.  I could care less if W's shoes talk to him. What scares me is he believes his  Shoes (God)  do talk to him and makes dictions based on it.  What was that statement Al Gore said, 'There is no controlling Moral authority'. People were outraged at the statement, however the difference in W is although he never said the statement, He lives it fully, and escapes all responsibility for his actions.  He believes his authority comes from on high, much like Jim Jones, and no matter what his actions are, they are right in the eyes of his God. It doesn't matter the truth, it doesn't matter the justice of it.

 

This war  (like most wars) although said to favor 'God', goodness, freedom, Liberation et al is completely the opposite of its words. This war has passed Legislation that are  a dictators best friend. We are becoming like Rome and Invading and conquering with zero evidence but lots of emotionalism.  The real war is on our rights as we all become slaves to the government. Everything we do, say is becoming more monitored by the men behind the Curtin.  Zealots are zealots thru emotionalism, Today go to the people in the RNC party and try to speak with rationality, you will automatically be labeled  "un-American" unpatriotic,  anti-American. Anything that isn't in toe with the war, support for the war, support for the leaders (in the name of the troops) of the war is denounced and dismissed with absurd propaganda, The "Troops" are a key piece in the propaganda tool.  I want our troops home, I wish no harm on our military men and women, and I think its horrendous they are out there dying for W n' Companies chess game. I do not support the illegal war under any twisting of words. The fact that the half-assed elected leaders throw gods name in it, is only done for support reasons and nothing more. It's how you control the masses.  Think about it, Hitler used the same god nonsense for his invasion. he was also going to liberate people from 'communism and 'evil'.  Hitler didn't have massive support because he was known as Evil. Look into why Joseph Kennedy was ousted out of American Ambassador to  Britain, he totally supported Hitler, not because of any "evil" but because he felt Hitler was right.    This is also why many people relate w to Hitler.  Hitler did massive amounts of massacres because people supported him blindly, no other reason.

 

As for the Pagan stuff, our country was founded on paganism.  read this interesting tid bit.

 

The United States: A Country founded on Paganism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love this forum.

[Mike D]

I think Christian influence comes and goes in little waves, based on whoever is in political power, as well as the prevailing attitudes of the nation at any given time. However, when I look at the bigger picture and a large slice of time (decades) I see these as small counter-trend waves within a much larger trend wave that goes in the opposite direction. If you take a historical look at where we have come from..... there was a time in this country when atheists (blasphemers) were put to death, witches were burned at the stake, people heard cursing were jailed, homosexuals would never dare to reveal themselves, women were second class citizens, slavery was common practice, etc., all because of Christian influence.

 

Christians might fight the trend every few years, but if you look at this from a historical perspective, it's like they're trying to swim against the current... they might manage to swim a few feet in the opposite direction from time to time, but eventually the current overpowers them and drags them further back than where they started. I think it has alot to do with advancing as people and increasing our knowledge of science, technology, psychology, etc., while decreasing our dependance on primitive superstitions from the ancient past. And I have no reason to believe this trend will stop. That's my opinion anyway.

[Guest vanesa]

Our country certainly had Xtian influence but it never was founded originally as a Xtian nation. Our country was a free nation from 1791 - 1798 when the Bill of Rights actually meant something. In 1798, the Sedition Act was passed, making it a crime to criticize the US Government, and since the Xtian Right occupied the government, it turned our nation into a de facto Xtian Nation, which is why America is one of the most corrupt nations on the planet. We were only free for about 7 or 8 years tops, and the Sedition Act basically cancelled out the US Constitution. The next goal of Xtianity was to weaken the US so much that it could fall right into the hands of the Xtian right. They essentially set up the Civil War, and they were also responsable for giving corporations US Constitutional protections, further devaluing the very humans they proclaim to hold as valuable. The Xtian right then set up WW1 and they also made sure the US economy would collapse and took the US off the gold standard, making us all slaves to the government a long time ago. (Has it ever occured to any of you that Xtianity is the same as the Illuminati)? They are responsable for all the diabolical creations that exist in our world today. Yes, Xtianity has influenced america. That's why America is a military dictatorship.

[been borg again]

Macgyver,

a simple way to test your opinion:

 

Run for political office as an athiest.

[Eponymic]

Macgyver,

a simple way to test your opinion:

 

Run for political office as an athiest.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

As for the balance, I do think its slowly working its way towards non-belief. But people being the way they are, they're not going to give up the power easily. And since the Christians already have the majority of power, it will take awhile for any real obvious change to take place. Especially in these times where they are getting desperate & pushing harder & harder to maintain control.

[Panther]

Thinking back, I used to argue with one particular christian...he would always say that the constitution was written by and for christians, that the founding fathers based everything on christianity and that we are ruining things, blah, blah, blah.