Calvinism = Nazi

[been borg again]

Total hereditary depravity

babies inherit the sin of Adam and are totally depraved and therefore unable to respond to the gospel message of Christ.

 

Nazi: all Jews are HEREDITARLY totaly depraved , unable to be saved from their depravity, unable to respond or contribute to Aryan culture in a positive way. They are degenerate by default

 

 

 

Unconditional election

(or predestination) God had a master list of those who will be saved and those who will go to hell before creation in Gen 1:1. The list is unchangeable.

 

Nazi: Jews are born Jews, Aryans are born Aryans. The Master Race List is Predestined and the Jews are righfully sent to Hell.

 

 

 

 

 

Limited atonement

Christ did not die for all men but only those on the "saved list"

 

Nazi: Only Aryans should be saved. Jews should not be saved and they should be sent to DEath Camps and erased from the face of the earth

 

 

 

Irresistible grace

God sends the Holy Spirit only those on the saved list which removes their depraved nature inherited from Adam and creates within them a saving faith in Christ. The Holy Spirit thereafter guides them directly to understand and correctly interpret the Bible.

 

Nazi: Aryans are the MasterRace, with a pure culture, and better intellect and better art. By default anything the Aryans do or create is by default better and more correct than anything the depraved and degenerate jew does.

 

 

 

Perseverance of the saints

A child of God once saved, cannot be lost.

 

Nazi: Once Aryan, Always Aryan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea I am sure Nazism sounded great to the Nazi's, since they happen to be predestined a Aryan, but what about the poor Jew whose only crime was being born JEw?

 

In the same way you Calvinists make me sick.

 

why in Hell did your God create predestined souls whose soul- pourpose is to exsperience trillons of years of non stop suffering in a Cosmic Nazi Death Camp

 

 

Eternal suffering of humanity is REQUIRED to EXPRESS GODS PERFECT HOLINESS??!!

 

You commit Blasphemy by making your God into a Hitler.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Woah! Creepy!

 

Dang you come up with very good posts. You are on a roll bba!

[Mike D]

why in Hell did  your God create  predestined souls  whose soul- pourpose is to exsperience trillons of years of non stop suffering in a Cosmic Nazi Death Camp.

LOL, if it was only trillions of years then God would be showing mercy.....

[been borg again]

for years I have been trying to determine if this is a Strawman.

I cannot see how it is.

Nazi Philosphy is Calvinism repackaged with a different label

It follows the exact same concepts and principles

no matter what angle you look at it.

 

ABout the only difference I can see is that one predestined damned soul who suffers in eternity, eventually suffers more than all the millions of jews in the death camps. Which what, makes God ( accourding to Calvinism) about the most evil monster in the universe)

 

While the Nazi goal was just to get rid of the Jew as fast as possible, regardless of suffering,

While the GOAL of predestination IS the suffering ITSELF.. the only answer Calvinists can give is....uh well GOD is HOLY, and it exspresses Gods HOLINESS, or Perfect JUSTICE ( WHA???)

 

And could the Devil himself cause as much total suffering than the doctrin of predestination?

I hope you Calvinists rememebr this when your in Heaven, and right behind the curtian the rest of humanity screams in pain while you sing your love songs to God...

oh yea I forgot, God is going to erase all memory of your pre-doomed loved ones in hell .

I guess God wanted robots after all.

[Thurisaz]

One small objection, for the sake of correctness:

 

[...]

Nazi: Once Aryan, Always Aryan

[...]

 

Considering that the nazis defined a crime of "Rassenschande" (racial defamation) for so-called "aryans" having sexual relations with "non-aryans", especially jews, that line is arguably wrong.

 

Aside from that, however, you score a direct hit.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hey, BBA! Interesting parallels. I think there are many parallels between what the Nazis did and what the Hebrews in the OT are represented as doing to other nations! God tells them to come out from among "the nations" and be pure, to exterminate various people, to take over their land, etc.

 

Are you saying there are parallels between God as Calvinism depicts him and Nazi authority? Or are you saying that Nazism as a historical and intellectual movement was derived from Calvinism?

[pandora]

Wow... and I thought I was the only one that thougt Xtianity was going that way.....

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, guys this is scary.

 

I had the feeling the neo-cons and the situation today somehow was similar to Germany in the 20s-30s.

 

All the rhetoric sounds so demeaning and categorical, and blame on innocent groups.

 

But I hope they’re not going after freethinkers as a group, because we don’t believe in the Bible-God.

[Guest vanesa]

The only true Nazis are Xtians (and to a lesser extent, Muslims and Jews and the other fruitcake religions). They want to shut you up with 'hate speech' laws that make it a crime to slur Xtians. In reality, we freethinkers are in deep shit because Xtianity does make it clear that nonbelievers are to be tossed into the fire:

 

Here is some 'love speech' from our lovely Bible, KJV:

 

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

 

16:9 Of sin, because they beleive not on me;

 

Romans 13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

 

This is why Amerika is all screwed up.

[I Broke Free]

Especially since homosexuals are becoming more visual as a group in mainstream society and demanding (rightfully so) some rights they are not afforded at this time.  Also, Christianity can accept the conversion of any group except homosexuals.  An hispanic convert becomes an hispanic Christian.  Of course, people change their religion, but that happens when someone converts automatically.  What doesn't happen automatically when a homosexual become a Christian is that they leave their homosexuality behind, but they are expected to.  They do not become, in fundy circles, a homosexual christian.  Pretty worrisome.

 

 

Thanks a heap Madame; I haven’t even finished my Cheerios yet and I am already envisioning myself in an attic somewhere writing a diary for posterity. I promise to write nice things about you if sneak in some Hostess Ding Dongs for me.

 

Seriously though, your insights into conversion are right on the money. Homosexuals that reject their sexuality and convert to Christianity never truly become “normal” in the eyes of the congregation. They will always be under suspicion.

 

Those who marry are expected to become spokespersons for the healing power of Christianity. They are still “linked” to homosexuality in the eyes of the congregation.

 

Those who remain single and celibate are admired publicly, but feared individually. You won’t find them teaching Sunday school.

 

“Love the sinner, hate the sin” works fine as long as the homosexual is struggling to conform, but do Christians really love the homosexual that rejects the concept of sin? I think that is open to debate.

[been borg again]

Hey, BBA!  Interesting parallels.  I think there are many parallels between what the Nazis did and what the Hebrews in the OT are represented as doing to other nations!  God tells them to come out from among "the nations" and be pure, to exterminate various people, to take over their land, etc.

 

Are you saying there are parallels between God as Calvinism depicts him and Nazi authority?  Or are you saying that Nazism as a historical and intellectual movement was derived from Calvinism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ANswer is yes to both questions i think,

what do you think?

although I think the second question, was more because Luther and Calvin set the culture which made nazism more acceptable to the non catholic masses. Of course tons of other factors to blame as well.

Of course the pre nazi- anti semetic culture. ( which I think the bible is entirely to blame), the fad of Ugenics and social darwinism, The jewish-german upper class in a time of depression... the perfect scape goat to unite the german masses

German National Folk Heros all being the warrior type, German pride and so forth, a pre-nazi german culture that valued disipline, national pride, and the time in history when the germans needed to re-establish national pride and identity after WW1

 

Anyway, I am no expert in Nazism, I am sure most of the germans here know more than I do since they know the language and german culture. I just read alot with no supervision of any type of academic authority figure, so I may be way off base. LOL

 

My father , is one of the leading nazi collectors in the USA, and considered an american athourity on the subject of the

memorabilia itself ( not the culture or philosphy).

How creepy is it, when I visit my father every few years and get to eat out of hitlers personal table wear while stareing at autographed pics of hitler and all his henchmen, while my father is preaching at me with his bony fingers wearing SS-death rings and personal rings of the Nazi Trinity .. LOL

[Guest vanesa]

In a worldwide context, Mulims are definately the most extreme of the three religions you mentioned.

In a Muslim dominated area, you are likely to get raped and have your face slashed.

 

Yes, Islam is an evil religion too. I'm glad the Xtian soldiers in the US army were flushing Qurans down the toilet. Muslims are sexist pigs just like Xtians, and I have been harassed by muslims too for being transgender. I'd like to debate with a couple of Mohammeders once I'm done with the Xtian right.

[♦ ficino ♦]

ANswer is yes to both questions i think,

what do you think?

although I think the second question, was more because Luther and Calvin set the culture which made nazism  more acceptable to the  non catholic masses. Of course tons of other factors  to blame as well.

Of course the pre nazi- anti semetic culture. ( which I think the bible is entirely to blame)...

 

 

 

Hey BBA,

 

I definitely agree that there are parallels between Calvinism and Nazism. As to whether Nazism derived from Calvinism, my guess is no, not in any way that you can demonstrate. I'm not a professional European historian. From what I remember, like you I recall a lot of Catholic anti-semitism, and further east, Eastern Orthodox anti-semitism. If you take Calvinism out of Germany, I think enough Catholic and Lutheran anti-semitism would remain to have provided enough prejudice for Nazis to exploit.

 

Over a decade ago Isaiah Berlin in the New York Review of Books published a series of essays in which he argued that the kernel of European fascism was the thought of Joseph de Maistre, a frenchman who argued that citizens should be in terror of the state. De Maistre said the state should act arbitrarily and capriciously just so the citizens will not predict what the authorities will do. They'll always be afraid. De Maistre was a strict Catholic. Berlin's point was that totalitarianism of the 20th century came from roots like this.

 

Another interesting antecedent of Nazism was German Romanticism. It spurred an interest in nationalism. France and everything french were seen as bringing in influences that would subvert German purity. Reason was suspect, emotional bonding around abstractions like Blood and FAtherland were elevated. The Jews were up there with the French as elements of foreign thought infecting Germany. Richard Wagner, a composer whose music I love, fulminated against both French and Jewish influences in art.

 

Back to de Maistre. He had a ghastly, tyrannical concept of God. Ditto the Calvinists. That's where I think your parallel holds.

[Guest MacGyver]

"I hope you Calvinists rememebr this when your in Heaven, and right behind the curtian the rest of humanity screams in pain while you sing your love songs to God...

oh yea I forgot, God is going to erase all memory of your pre-doomed loved ones in hell .

I guess God wanted robots after all."

 

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering. There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

[dogmatically_challenged]

"I hope you Calvinists rememebr this when your in Heaven, and right behind the curtian the rest of humanity screams in pain while you sing your love songs to God...

oh yea I forgot, God is going to erase all memory of your pre-doomed loved ones in hell .

I guess God wanted robots after all."

 

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering.  There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No you won't. If your god exists he will have to whipe your mind. Our suffering will eat at you eventually. Think about it bro. If your god doesn't whipe your mind you will be living in hell yourself.

[Guest MacGyver]

No you won't. If your god exists he will have to whipe your mind. Our suffering will eat at you eventually. Think about it bro. If your god doesn't whipe your mind you will be living in hell yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have actually been thinking about this a lot lately. In the eternal state I will be fully sanctified, completely agreeing and recoicing in all of God's judgements. And since God has condemned the pagan to a lake of fire, I will take great joy in that.

 

Why would justice make my life hell?

[dogmatically_challenged]

I have actually been thinking about this a lot lately.  In the eternal state I will be fully sanctified, completely agreeing and recoicing in all of God's judgements.  And since God has condemned the pagan to a lake of fire, I will take great joy in that. 

 

Why would justice make my life hell?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is no difference between Justice and Revenge with your god. Revenge is an awfully primitive method of correcting people. Especially for an omnipowerful god. It is very primitive don't ya think? (Hint..Hint..)

 

Love ya bro. Stick around.

[been borg again]

quote MACGYVER

 

 

 

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering. There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

 

 

........................

 

are you going to be giving me the finger too ?

 

you remind me of the story I read once of the nazis soldiers laughing hysterically

while they raided that one jewish hospital and threw all the babies out of the second story windows into the dump truck, while the mothers watched.

apparently the soldiers made a game out of it and they tested each others throwing skills

 

To quote the soda commercial,

 

" yea its just like that"

 

uh huh

 

WWJD?

 

But you know in a way i cant blame you for your belief ( if your really calvinist) cuz your just taking calvinism to its most logical conclusion. and one would have to think that way to get all the theological puzzle pieces to fit.

 

anyway, glad your here, hope you stick around, even if your serious in your calvinism, cuz people like you and me who would probably disagree on everything,

still its good to be honest in our opinions without censorship or regard to personal feelings.

Welcome peace toyou.

[Thurisaz]

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering.  There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

 

You forgot the "Sieg Heil", fucktard.

[Guest Gothicrip]

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering.  There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And you'll be laughing at the the innocent aborted babies burning in hell too.

[Totallyatpeace]

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering.  There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

MacGyver, I have just one question for you.....

 

How can you be a Follower of Christ and say something like that?

 

 

Tap

[Totallyatpeace]

“Love the sinner, hate the sin” works fine as long as the homosexual is struggling to conform, but do Christians really love the homosexual that rejects the concept of sin?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This one does.

[fallenleaf]

Come on TAP... feel the love. You know he is saying that because he loves us.

 

Oh... and MacGyver -- I'll be the one farting in your general direction. In case you wanted to know.

[BlueGiant]

Oh... and MacGyver -- I'll be the one farting in your general direction.  In case you wanted to know.

 

Dude, from a lake of fire? That may be make for an impressive flamethrower, singe some angel wings...

[Guest vanesa]

I am a calvinist and i think the majority of time in the eternal state will be spent laughing at the people who have earned an eternity of suffering.  There's no way my memory is going to be wiped, I am going to be laughing at you!

 

This is one of the reasons why Xtianity is a major turnoff; that holier than thou I got a flag shoved up my ass mentality that pollutes our country. I am curious as to where you have proof for this eternal state scam, Macgyver?