What Makes A Person An Atheist And Why

[Antlerman]

my hands are now washed.

 

I am not any judge or jury, but I'll be praying for you

This is the very patronizing bullshit that led me straightway out of the ranks of Chrisitianity, thank you very much!

 

"My hands are now washed". May I say it? F*** You! This statement passes judgement on us. You are saying "I have shared the Gospel to you, you don't accept it, there's nothing more I can say to you, 'I wash my hands of responsibility to God for you. You're now in his hand to judge."

 

Yes Michael, I know your gone now, but I wanted to say this for other Christians to hear from real humans how this feels to have a fallible human pass judgement this way. That is what you have done. You are also quite arrogant to presume you are some sort of prophet of God and doing a mission for him. He has not directly instructed you of crap! You presume you know you are right and that you can talk to us like this.

 

Again, the rage this evokes is in fact on your shoulders. You're hands are not washed, they are full of the dung of your mind that falls out of your mouth. They are not clean at all. You are polluted and defiled by your arrogance. Repent!

 

[SkepticOfBible]

I happen to be a Christian man with Jewish roots. Jews have more things in common with Christians than one might think.

Apart from the bible, I don't think so. And Jews don't believe they have anything much in common with Christianity, and they have good reason to believe so.

 

Infact it shows ignorance on part of christians who make such statement

 

The following website made by a real Jewish Jew, should educate you

 

Differences between Judaism and Christianity

 

Ironically I have seen Orthodox Jews viewing Islam more compatable/common with Judaism rather than Christianity

[quicksand]

i would like to know why some people are no longer... christians.

I find it mind boggling that someone may leave his or her faith, or why a person chooses to have no faith in a Supreme Being at all.

Actually, I don't have any reason at all to be an atheist.

 

It's just when the reasons were supplied to me why I should be a Christian or why I should believe in a "Supreme Being," I was unconvinced, either by that the evidence is shaky or the arguments are really just veiled assertions that were easily refutable. I became an ex-christian during confirmation trying to become a Christian.

 

So no, I don't have any reason at all to be an atheist. Just supply me with coherent reasons, that are based on facts, not assertions nor arguments that do not beg faith or emotion, for why I should be a Christian.

 

It seems that whatever I may post is futile.

Ultimately, that is the case with a believer posting here time and time again. They fail to be convincing because for whatever reasons they supply and no matter how emotional they are or how vigorously they are asserted, fail to gain any traction because they are refutable and not believable.

[philo]

Becoming an atheist was a long process for me. About 15 years. It was a process of elimination, of testing Christian doctrines and ideologies. THe biggest problem that I could not reconcile with Christian thinking was the origin and purpose of evil. In a nutshell, Christianity does not explain, or is misleading, in explaining God's relationship to evil.

 

Example: If a single god created the universe, and everthing came from this god, than evil comes from God. Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

 

Once a person realizes this, than all the other crucial Christian doctrines no longer make sense. There is no need for a devil, if god uses evil for his own purposes. IF god is both good and evil, then one does not even begin to know how to be good. IF it was important for people to know good and evil (to have a choice) then the curse and a hell are unnecessary and cruel. If redemption is for the person(s) who use evil, and god is the primary person who uses evil, than salvation is for god.

 

Much more could be said. The truth is, life really comes into focus when the mind is free of Christian ideologies. Atheism is just taking the approach of facing life head on and living in reality. And once a person is willing to do that life really starts to make much more sense.

[Mythra]

Also, why doesn't God grow back the limbs of amputee's?

I can save you time, Mike. He can't.

 

Grow back a limb?

 

How about cure a freakin cold?

 

Christian reading this: Give it a try - next time you feel a cold coming on - pray. Pray hard. Fast if you really wanna be a die-hard. Pray for the cold to go away in a single day. Surely not too much to ask of your omnipotent deity.

 

One day. Not even a sniffle, headache, or ticklish throat on the second day.

 

Just like AGF says - I can save you time - He can't.

[Saviourmachine]

also, i would like to know why some people are no londer jews nor christians

for real, no condemnation here.

My conception made me an atheist. I didn't pray for my dialy bread as a foetus, I swear! Later, being of an age of four, or something around that, I realized suddenly that there has to be some big daddy somewhere hidden that made all the toys around me that my own daddy didn't. Later I began to like the toy a little bit beneath my umbilicus. Now I enjoy the thing behind my eyes, above my neck. Anyway, of course there has to be somewhere such an invisible daddy. I am not able to prove that invisible daddies don't exist. And heck, we all would be behaving like bonobo's if the Thing wasn't omnipresent.

[doomguarder]

To be honest, an inability to rationalize and omniscient / omnipotent god. For me this happened early, probably because I was not indoctrinated to religion as a child. Those who were raise to believe have to go through a longer process (i.e. the formers of various faiths on the board).

 

Sometime the simple answers are the best.

[EdwardAbbey]

also, i would like to know why some people are no londer jews nor christians

for real, no condemnation here.

 

Refusal to believe in Gods that are human like and cannot be defined with any level of rational coherency whatsoever. These are reasons I am no longer a believer in the Xtian Deity. It is no more real than a story book written about Mermaids or Leprechauns.

 

About the only thing that makes atheists what they are is the millions who believe in our society and nothing more. If there were no believers in such foolish imaginary Gods then we wouldn't exist. We would have a society of rational thinking people.

[Guest Gooneybird]

When it comes down to it, I don't think it bright to give out my documentation and personal information about what took place. If anyone does not believe me, that is their problem.

 

However, my case took place in Atlantic City Hospital, and the dates I had previously mentioned.

 

my hands are now washed.

 

I am not any judge or jury, but I'll be praying for you

 

If posting REAL documentation of your concrete miracle would bring people to Christ, you are obliged and commanded to do this as a christian. But you'll just go just far enough so that witnessing is not an inconvenience for you. See, you don't even really believe. If you did, you'd take a chance. You'd do what you could to save us from damnation. Your hands are now washed? You never got them dirty to begin with. That would have required having a real dialogue. But you're not willing to get down in the dirt, not willing to take a chance at the expense of yourself. Typical christian selfishness. I hope it helps you sleep better at night knowing your hands are now washed. My balls are now washed.

 

I'm not any judge or jury, but I'll be washing my balls for you.

[white_raven23]

I like clean balls.

[KenneyVTX]

First off I am not an athiest, I am agnostic. This means, to put it simply, "I don't know and neither do you." For all I know what we understand as "god" could be a vorlon. My top 10 list.

 

10. I reject the battered wife mindset as a pillar of faith. (See the story of Job)

9. I reject that I am incapable of managing my own affairs. (See any fundy website)

8. I reject Mosaic law. (The Law is complete and absolute. A violation of one is a violation of all. There are no subsets and you can not cherrypick, if you bind yourself to one you are bound to all. Remember this the next time you quote Leviticus.)

7. I reject that I am incomplete without faith. (again see any fundy website for examples)

6. I reject that I am bad or otherwise unworthy if I do not share a particular view. (to many examples to list)

5. I reject that your world view is the only world view.

4. I reject this world is for suffering and that happiness will only be found after death. (how depressing is that?!)

3. I reject omnisience. (See the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics)

2. I reject omnipresence.

1. I reject the divinity of Jesus on the basis that the documented story is neither novel nor non-obvious. There were many before and have been many since.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, but the parenthetical comments are just how I see things.

[Amethyst]

First off I am not an athiest, I am agnostic. This means, to put it simply, "I don't know and neither do you." For all I know what we understand as "god" could be a vorlon. My top 10 list.

 

 

Hey, a fellow B5 fan! Welcome.

[Celsus]

I would like to share my thoughts on the issue of agnosticism and atheism. Agnostic is a label, that comes from identifying with agnosticism. Agnosticism means "no knowledge", as its root "gnosis" literally means knowledge. Being agnostic deals with the domain of knowledge, being atheistic or theistic deals with belief. Knowledge and belief are distinct domains, however there is a relationship between them.

 

A person can be agnostic (lack of knowledge) and have a belief in god(s).

 

A person can be agnostic (lack knowledge) and lack belief in god(s).

 

Being an atheist means lack of belief in god(s). A person may be an atheist if they simply have no knowledge that meets there standards of proof, which is sometimes referred to as a "soft atheist". A person may be an atheist if they have some knowledge that does meet their standards of proof and actively deny the existence of a god or gods, known as a "hard atheist".

 

Let me explain my own beliefs in this regard, and I hope it illustrates the idea. I am agnostic in terms of the existence of any god(s). While there indeed might be an entity out there hiding somewhere in the universe that could be defined as a god; I do not extend belief that some undefined god exists, or leprechauns either. I give both the ambiguous god(s) and leprechauns chances of existing in the universe about the same probability, which is close to zero. In terms of specific gods, I actively deny their existence because I do have knowledge which meets my standards of proof in regard to their existence. Thor, Zeus, Amen Ra, Baal, Yahweh/Jesus, Allah, Ahura Mazda, etc. all violate basic logical axioms and can no more exist than a square circle.

 

Thus, I am agnostic in terms of some general concept of god, such as the deists believe in, and I thusly lack belief in it. I am not agnostic, but actively deny the existence of logically incoherent gods as related by the world religions, be they pagan or Abrahamic flavors.

 

Bruce

[Dhampir]

I mostly agree. I think the only people who aren't agnostic are those few who've never had to deal with the idea of god in any form.

[InspectoGeneral]

Can anyone say 'echo chamber'?

[quicksand]

Can anyone say 'echo chamber'?

Can anyone say talking snakes and walking talking rotting flying zombies? Or a big talking head in the sky?

[white_raven23]

Can anyone say 'echo chamber'?

 

 

Can you say 'attention-whore'?

[AtheistMommy]

also, i would like to know why some people are no londer jews nor christians

for real, no condemnation here.

 

 

Q: What makes a person an Atheist?

 

A: The definition of Atheist is one who lacks belief in all gods and goddesses. Coming to terms with Atheism is personal and I can't give you a general answer on how a person realizes they are in fact Atheist. However, it has a lot to do with the bible and the hate religion breeds.

 

Keep in mind that you personally lack belief in a few gods and goddesses. However, because you believe in one or a few, you are not considered an Atheist.

 

Q: Why does this make a person an Atheist?

 

A: Lack of belief in all gods and goddesses means they hold no belief for any god or goddess. Leaving them godless.

 

If you'd like to have a more complete answer you'd have to make your question more personal. Something like "How did you come into your atheism?." I'm willing to be most answers are going to start with "I use to be a devout Christian."

 

But now I'd like to ask you a question....

Q: Why do you want to know?

What do you hope to gain from the answers you get?

Why do most Christians refuse to acknowledge that they may in fact be wrong?

 

 

Bruce,

 

Its the label game. Most of the time people call themselves "Agnostic" because they don't want to have the negitive assocation that comes with the word "Atheist." However, I agree. Agnostic only describes the type of believer or nonbeliever you are. It doesn't define were you stand.

 

Which brings me to a question...

Is there a middle ground? Can someone believe and not believe at the same time?

 

 

First off I am not an athiest, I am agnostic. This means, to put it simply, "I don't know and neither do you." For all I know what we understand as "god" could be a vorlon. My top 10 list.

 

10. I reject the battered wife mindset as a pillar of faith. (See the story of Job)

9. I reject that I am incapable of managing my own affairs. (See any fundy website)

8. I reject Mosaic law. (The Law is complete and absolute. A violation of one is a violation of all. There are no subsets and you can not cherrypick, if you bind yourself to one you are bound to all. Remember this the next time you quote Leviticus.)

7. I reject that I am incomplete without faith. (again see any fundy website for examples)

6. I reject that I am bad or otherwise unworthy if I do not share a particular view. (to many examples to list)

5. I reject that your world view is the only world view.

4. I reject this world is for suffering and that happiness will only be found after death. (how depressing is that?!)

3. I reject omnisience. (See the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics)

2. I reject omnipresence.

1. I reject the divinity of Jesus on the basis that the documented story is neither novel nor non-obvious. There were many before and have been many since.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, but the parenthetical comments are just how I see things.

 

 

If you don't hold a belief in any god or goddess, you're an Atheist. If you don't hold any belief in any gods or goddess, but you believe that there is no way to really know if a god exists, you're an Agnostic Atheist.

 

I'm not sure if you can just be Agnostic but in general you either have a belief or you don't.

[KenneyVTX]

If you don't hold a belief in any god or goddess, you're an Atheist. If you don't hold any belief in any gods or goddess, but you believe that there is no way to really know if a god exists, you're an Agnostic Atheist.

 

I'm not sure if you can just be Agnostic but in general you either have a belief or you don't.

 

I never said there wasn't conversely I did not say there was. I am just reminded of the quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingushable from magic". I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own. I reject the supernatural, the universe has laws that govern how things work. If you allow for the supernatural, then the scientific method is useless.

[quicksand]

I am just reminded of the quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingushable from magic". I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own.

Nice quote. What does it mean? 100 ton Giza Pyramid blocks raised by ancient neolithic sonic levitation devices? (Trust me, I've read this before.)

 

 

I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own.

I guess my problem with this is your now replacing one extraordinary explanition for an extraordinary claim. Doesn't really solve anything.

 

I reject the supernatural, the universe has laws that govern how things work. If you allow for the supernatural, then the scientific method is useless.

Well, more so, the supernatural is by its very "definition", beyond nature.

[KenneyVTX]

I am just reminded of the quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingushable from magic". I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own.

Nice quote. What does it mean? 100 ton Giza Pyramid blocks raised by ancient neolithic sonic levitation devices? (Trust me, I've read this before.)

 

 

I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own.

I guess my problem with this is your now replacing one extraordinary explanition for an extraordinary claim. Doesn't really solve anything.

 

I reject the supernatural, the universe has laws that govern how things work. If you allow for the supernatural, then the scientific method is useless.

Well, more so, the supernatural is by its very "definition", beyond nature.

 

No, my point is there is more than one possibility. Levitating stones? I doubt that, block and tackle is more likely.

I have no evidence one way or another. I'd like to know, but I don't.

[quicksand]

I guess I am having trouble following here.

 

You state at first:

I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own.

 

And then in the case of "100 ton Giza Pyramid blocks levitating blocks" you state that is its's more likely block and tackle." How do you determine this?

 

I'm confused. If you think that my "100 ton Giza Pyramid blocks" is best explained by "block and tackle" yet how can you state that these "miracles and angels" are best described by the results of "technology more advanced than their own." Do you mean that cherubs are really extraterrestrial UFO'S? Are Vimanas really UFO's? Of if not that, is it Atlantan technology?

[KenneyVTX]

I guess I am having trouble following here.

 

You state at first:

I can not discount that what these primitive people saw as miracles and angels were not actually the results of them observing technology more advanced than their own.

 

And then in the case of "100 ton Giza Pyramid blocks levitating blocks" you state that is its's more likely block and tackle." How do you determine this?

 

I'm confused. If you think that my "100 ton Giza Pyramid blocks" is best explained by "block and tackle" yet how can you state that these "miracles and angels" are best described by the results of "technology more advanced than their own." Do you mean that cherubs are really extraterrestrial UFO'S? Are Vimanas really UFO's? Of if not that, is it Atlantan technology?

 

I appreciate your insights.

My intial thought is that at the technology level of the ancient world, simple machines are the first and most likely choice. The building of ancient structures presents us with evidence of the endevor, as such a modern engineer can study the remains and reverse engineer a possible way that they were designed and constructed.

 

This is a seperate thought from the stories in religious texts.

With the stories, my view is that the recounts of visitations and miracles are nothing more than artistic license and good marketing. But, as a bit of a geek, I fancy the idea of them being inspired by the observation of advanced technology.

 

The most logical explaination of the bible is that it is fiction. It is a collection of stories written well after the fact and the stories are based on supposition, oral tradition, and a good sales pitch. To take the more extrodinariy claims as true, it requires either the supernatural or some other outside influcence. My preference between those two is another outside influence.

[quicksand]

My preference between those two is another outside influence.

Such as?

[KenneyVTX]

My preference between those two is another outside influence.

Such as?

 

Atlantians? Some other lost civilization? Extraterrestrials? All are possibilities in my mind. Eventhough I am scientificaly minded, yes I can hold fantastic ideas and consider them as well. This is rather like a Pulmonologist I met at one point that smoked. Of all people, he should know better.