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Reverend AtheiStar

A Conversation With A Creationist Pt. 1-6

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----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: Reverend AtheiStar

Date: Oct 11, 2006 3:28 PM

 

everything just didnt get here perfect and at the perfect spot.

 

That's what we call a "strawman." No evolutionist said that it did. You attribute a false argument to the other side and then proceed to knock it down. That's fine, it's not my argument.

 

bacteria has no knowledge what soo ever so how could they have created us?

 

I don't know. That's not an argument I've ever seen any evolutionist have. Since it's your argument, how about you tell me. Did this bacteria speak magic words like your imaginary friend, Yahweh?

 

who made bacteria?

 

Why does it have to be a "who?" In reality, the correct question would be "what." What made bacteria? Bacteria evolved from the first simple self replicators. They (bacteria) are the oldest fossils we have and appear in the fossil record 3.5 billion years ago. These self replicators, which were non-living, evolved from inorganic chemicals. That is what preceeds biological evolution, chemical evolution or abiogenesis.

 

who made the big bang?

 

No one. People didn't exist, yet. It was a completely natural event that required no gods or goddesses.

 

who made the big bang happen?

 

No one. There were no people around. There weren't even any stars, planets or anything else. It happened completely naturally.

what blew up in the univerus?

 

Matter, all the matter of the entire universe was concentrated into one super condensed spot. It then exploded. That was over 14 billion years ago.

 

Where did this matter come from?

 

It's always been here. It's eternal. Ever hear of the law of the conservation of mass/energy? It states that mass/energy can never be created, nor destroyed. It only changes form. This is fact.

 

what made everything?

 

A wide variety of processes, actually. Cosmic evolution is how the galaxies, nebula, solar systems, planets and stars formed -- naturally. Chemical evolution is the process that described what it took to lead up to the first living organisms on our planet -- naturally. With the advent of the first life, biological evolution took over and life blossomed into many forms -- all naturally! It wasn't until humans, with their large evolved brains came along, did the gods and goddesses get created in our image.

 

~RAS

www.reverendatheistar.com

 

----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: JUSTIN,DAVID BLAINE, AND CRISS ANGEL COMBINED

Date: Oct 11, 2006 2:57 PM

 

 

yes. everything just didnt get here perfect and at the perfect spot. bacteria has no knowledge what soo ever so how could they have created us? who made bacteria? who made the big bang? who made the big bang happen? what blew up in the univerus? what made everything? god

 

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what made the matter that blew up?

 

In your mythology, what made your god? Nothing, right? He always was, correct? He is supposed to be uncaused, right? Well, wrap your mind around this: matter always was. The law of the conservation of mass/energy proves this beyond the shadow of a doubt. That without a cause needs no creator.

 

bacteria couldnt have made everything perfect for use.

 

Bacteria are on the very bottom of the evolutionary tree. They are evolved for their environments which they live in. They are so far removed from us that of course you don't see how they're related. Look at our closer relatives, the chimpanzees and bonobos. There is only 1.23% genetic difference!!! Please, do some reasearch before you jump to blind conclusions.

 

Evolution is fact. It is as much fact as the Earth going around the Sun. It's as much fact as gravity! To not accept it is to deny reality. Don't be left in the Dark Ages like the Christians who couldn't accept that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.

 

plus like i always put it... if im wrong, im wrong...but if im right... you all get the punishment.

 

lol... Like I always bring up when confronted with this silly myopic statement: false dichotomy. It's also known as the either/or fallacy. You make it sound like it's only a choice between Atheism and Christianity. It's not. Not by far! There are over 10,000 religions! There are hundreds of millions of gods and goddesses! There are thousands and thousands of afterlife mythologies! What if we both wake up being judged by the gods and goddesses of the Greek Pantheon? What if we wake up and we're in Islamic Hell because we never believed in or worshipped Allah? Have you read any of the Qur'an? Their version of Hell is certainly the worst I've seen! What if we're both wrong and end up in the negative afterlife of some god that we've never even heard of? You're in as much potential danger as me, my friend, you just don't realize it. Wake up and smell the polytheism!

 

~RAS

www.reverendatheistar.com

 

 

----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: JUSTIN,DAVID BLAINE, AND CRISS ANGEL COMBINED

Date: Oct 11, 2006 6:19 PM

 

 

what made the matter that blew up? bacteria couldnt have made everything perfect for use. plus like i always put it... if im wrong, im wrong...but if im right... you all get the punishment.

 

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god is not a human. hes a spirt. you cant make a spirt. he has to be always here.

 

Gods aren't real. Goddesses aren't real. Spirits aren't real. Of course, you can't make them. They don't exist. They don't exist the same as leprechauns don't exist. They're just anthropomorphic creations that we, as a species, have made in our images.

 

well the only thing i see it is as that everything just didnt come out right. something would have to gone wrong. well it didnt.

 

It didn't? Black holes, asteroids, malaria, AIDS, cancer, tornadoes, volcanoes, ebola, spina bifida, blindness, deafness, retardation, parasites, predators and a billion other horrible things and you think it all came out right? What have you been smoking?

 

the bible says he created the earth.

 

And how do you know the Bible is true? It has gotten an awful lot wrong over the past two millenia! Suffice to say it's a pathetic joke to the science minded! Would you like the short or long list?

 

never said how he created it or how long it took him.

 

It says six days. It clearly states that they are speaking of 24 hour periods, too, before you try and argue day/age creationism. What a joke that is!

 

i believe that he could have used the big bang to do it.

 

Sure, it's possible. All gods and goddesses are possible. It could have been Zeus, Allah, Thor or Brahma, for that matter. But is it probable given what science has proven for us?

 

well i could tell you something but you would probably just laugh and wont believe me

 

I believe what is proven to me. You want me to believe in your tiny god, out of the hundreds of millions of possibile deities, then prove your microscopic speck is real. Show me your concrete evidence. Give me your proof. Show me your best arguments. You know what? I've seen them all. None are convincing.

 

~RAS

www.reverendatheistar.com

 

----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: JUSTIN,DAVID BLAINE, AND CRISS ANGEL COMBINED

Date: Oct 11, 2006 8:19 PM

 

god is not a human. hes a spirt. you cant make a spirt. he has to be always here. well the only thing i see it is as that everything just didnt come out right. something would have to gone wrong. well it didnt. the bible says he created the earth. never said how he created it or how long it took him. i believe that he could have used the big bang to do it. well i could tell you something but you would probably just laugh and wont believe me

 

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From: Reverend AtheiStar

Date: Oct 11, 2006 8:55 PM

 

 

I think theism is a very dangerous thing to have. It's in the same category as crack, methamphetamine and nicotine. It's very much like a drug and it has been the leading cause of death since it's invention by our species. No thanks. I'd rather live in a world without this psychotic delusion.

 

And how hypocritical is it for you to to try to pursuade me out of expressing my beliefs? What have you been doing? What have you been arguing for? Why is it ok for you to do it and not me? Double standard?

 

I will not stop expressing my Atheism. Not now, not ten years from now, not 50, not ever! Ths world needs more people like me, not less. We will not shrink back because you don't like the fact that our arguments are rational and well thought out. Does this bother you? Good! It should! What you believe in irrational, illogical and very dangerous. I'd make an effort to quit the habit if I were you.

 

~RAS

www.reverendatheistar.com

 

----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: JUSTIN,DAVID BLAINE, AND CRISS ANGEL COMBINED

Date: Oct 11, 2006 8:43 PM

 

 

i mean come on. you shouldnt try and ake your myspace profile all about "theres no god" i mean so what? if he does exsit fine and if he doesnt fine. im believe what i believed for years. i like the way i believe. and if im wrong so what? you and a million others should just do other things then just try and prove hes not real.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

asteroids and all that is just how he makes the sky at night beauitful.

 

Ah yes, the asteroid that struck our planet 65 million years ago sure did make the night sky beautiful for the dinosaurs, huh? Do erupting volcanoes, spewing hot lava all over your city and killing thousands, make the night sky beautiful, as well? How about tornadoes? Do bloodied bodies being flung at hundreds of miles per hour add to it, too?

 

diobeyed his and ate the apple from the tree.

 

But why is this even a big deal within your mythology? Your god would have known that they'd diobey billions of years before he created anything! He's supposed to be omniscient. It wouldn't have been a surprise. No need to get angry. And have you ever heard of the punishment fitting the crime? How does all you described fit the crime of people that are so far removed it's ridiculous? If your god was real he'd have to be the most unjust, immoral, evil tyrant to ever live!

 

plus the dieseases is a punishment for what we have done.

 

So you do believe in Malevolent Design! Your god sure does sound like a winner! With love like this, who needs hate? Why do babies get diseases? Why do they get raped and killed? Aren't they supposed to be innocent? Where is your god when little boys are getting anally raped by priests? Is he just watching? Where is your god when children are dying of starvation in Africa? Does he chuckle to himself as they slowly waste away? What have we done that would warrant the torture and killing of innocents? Your god, if he was real, would be worse than Hitler ever dreamed of being. You truly worship a demon. I'm so glad your sadictic deity is imaginary.

 

~RAS

www.reverendatheistar.com

 

----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: JUSTIN,DAVID BLAINE, AND CRISS ANGEL COMBINED

Date: Oct 11, 2006 8:52 PM

 

 

i forgot something. asteroids and all that is just how he makes the sky at night beauitful. plus the dieseases is a punishment for what we have done. diobeyed his and ate the apple from the tree. so he put use here where theres evil, killing rap, you can do anything you want. thats our punishment

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Evolution is a fact and a theory. But not a theory in the common sense, but in the scientific sense. That was the whole purpose of sending out that email. It was to clear up the confusion. The very confusion you're still mired in. Let me attempt to enlighten you one more time:

 

the·o·ry (th-r, thîr) Pronunciation Key

n. pl. the·o·ries

 

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

 

The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

 

A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.

 

Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.

 

A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.

 

An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

 

The first definition is what is meant when scientists speak of the theory of evolution. When you use theory in your negative way you use the last definition. In other words, it's not just a theory (An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.), its a theory (A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.).

 

You want hard evidence? Our side has all of it -- and we're happy to share, too! Please, follow this link:

 

+29 Evidences for Macroevolution by Douglas Theobald, Ph.D.

 

As far as matter having no cause because it's eternal, yes I do have evidence. Science has shown that matter and energy can never be created, nor destroyed, merely transformed so many times it's not even the slightest bit amazing. It's a fact. Deal with it and move on, already. Do you want individual experiments showing the validity of this law? I can dig up plenty, to be sure!

 

Show me one instance where you can disprove the law of the conservation of mass/energy. Show me what scientific law or principal that says there cannot be an infinite regress. Prove your side. Don't just come at me with your faith. Give me evidence or be gone!

 

~RAS

www.reverendatheistar.com

 

----------------- Original Message -----------------

From: JUSTIN,DAVID BLAINE, AND CRISS ANGEL COMBINED

Date: Oct 11, 2006 8:22 PM

 

 

and dont tell me that theres proof. evolution is not a fact. we do evolove but evolving from ape is a theory. a idea. you cant prove something has been here forever or how something was created. no one was around so we just have to believe what we want

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Interesting debate. I like your style of sticking to facts and data.

 

Reading this finally drove home the fact that every christian has the "exact" same set of canned answers. I've seen may folks on here say it before, but for some reason this post made it clear to me.

 

It's unbelievable how myopic and un-creative christian thinking has become (or always has been). It's as predictable as the sun rising.

 

One would think you should be able to make the same statement about a materialist point of view. I don't think this is true. A materialist, naturlist point of view seems wide open to many possible scenarios and is open to change as new data becomes avialalbe or to new ideas. I've been doing a lot of reading lately about evolotion and different world views. None of which I have found as stifling as the christians.

 

The christian world view stifles all creative thinking and growth. You get locked into myopic, narrow minded and rather self-centered way of thinking. Anything new is bad, scary or blasphomeous.

 

:Doh:

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Interesting debate. I like your style of sticking to facts and data.

 

Thanks.

 

Reading this finally drove home the fact that every christian has the "exact" same set of canned answers. I've seen may folks on here say it before, but for some reason this post made it clear to me.

 

Oh, isn't that true. They all read from the same How to Deal with an Atheist handbook. lol... There's very little challenge involved in most of these engagements. Sometimes, though, you come across a crafty creationist and he can throw some curve balls at you! Those times you cherish! lol...

 

It's unbelievable how myopic and un-creative christian thinking has become (or always has been). It's as predictable as the sun rising.

 

Yup. I've seen much the same thing over and over during my decade of Atheism. It makes it quite easy to be prepared for the attack.

 

One would think you should be able to make the same statement about a materialist point of view. I don't think this is true. A materialist, naturlist point of view seems wide open to many possible scenarios and is open to change as new data becomes avialalbe or to new ideas. I've been doing a lot of reading lately about evolotion and different world views. None of which I have found as stifling as the christians.

 

Atheists like to pride themselves on individuality. They tend to be very creative and want to be genuinely unique -- to stand out in the crowd. The believer just wants to fit in with the other sheep.

 

The christian world view stifles all creative thinking and growth. You get locked into myopic, narrow minded and rather self-centered way of thinking. Anything new is bad, scary or blasphomeous.

 

It's ancient and it drags you down into that flat earth, people made out of mud and ribs, demons are everywhere, the universe revolving around the Earth, if you're not with us you're against us kind of mentality where every little thing is a sign from their imaginary friend. It's all pretty kooky and pretty scary that we have to share a planet with these people. I'll take a religious moderate (however theologically nonsensical theymay be) over a fundy any day.

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To my mind the scariest part is that these boobs and their ilk are actively campaigning to have this nonsense taught in public schools alongside real science, as if it had any legitimate place there. I would have no problem with teaching the creationist point of view as mythology...but to call it science and portray it as fact is untenable.

 

"The so-called religious organizations which now lead the war against the teaching of evolution are nothing more, at bottom, than conspiracies of the inferior man against his betters." (Mencken)

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To my mind the scariest part is that these boobs and their ilk are actively campaigning to have this nonsense taught in public schools alongside real science, as if it had any legitimate place there. I would have no problem with teaching the creationist point of view as mythology...but to call it science and portray it as fact is untenable.

 

"The so-called religious organizations which now lead the war against the teaching of evolution are nothing more, at bottom, than conspiracies of the inferior man against his betters." (Mencken)

 

Yes, and that is why we fight. What is at stake here? It's not just a state/church violation, it's the minds of future generations!

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Yes, and that is why we fight. What is at stake here? It's not just a state/church violation, it's the minds of future generations!

 

It's more than that. Our society is heading straight back into the Dark Ages. Whoever emerges out the other side is going to have to reinvent the wheel!

 

I won't be around to see it. Nor do I have off-spring to be around. But there will be people. It's so sad!

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Reverend AtheiStar, thanks for putting up the "29+ Evidences for Macroevolution" on your website. It is well written, well documented, and brought up a few points that I had not thought of before. Top notch!

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Hey rev, you could have attacked him for making this comment

 

"prove hes not real"

 

You can't prove something that's untestable. Besides the burden of proof was on him. He made the extraordinary claim so he should be the one to back it up.

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