leftofpunk Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 She's more than a GF really. We're going to get married eventually, we have a kid and we share a lease...with the exception of a license and a ring we're married. Sarah is an ex-christian but she was raise methodist/baptist. She's only been an ex-christian for a few years now...maybe four and she has a big problem with the word atheist. She doesn't believe in the christian god or really any other gods. She's still trying to figure it all out which I guess makes her agnostic. She kind of falls in with some reincarnation and believes in an afterlife (or at least wants to believe in an afterlife). She sees order in the universe and wants to believe in some grand designer (mother nature if you will) but not specifically a god in the christian sense. Shes kind of wanted me to use the term agnostic for myself. She understands that I'm an atheist, she just doesn't like the word. She says whenever she hears it she tenses up and mentally returns to that 7 year old girl in church where they brow beat you into fearing that word. She understands and accepts that it's irrational but that's the way it is. I've sort of been searching for a label that still falls in line with what I believe or rather what I don't belive but i'm not really one to get all up into labels cause my atheism is just that...i don't belive in gods. I don't walk into a room and have to tell everyone this. I don't have an atheist club. I just occasionally post here. So I started to look into other ways to say atheist without actually using that word and one that appeals to me is humanist. From what I can tell it's pretty much live today as if it were your last. Nothing suupernatural about it. We are what exists and let's just leave it at that. Would some of you who have been around longer agree that this pretty much fits? I just need some feedback here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Well, I can certaintly identify with you!! Just this weekend my fiance and I talked about God and Christianity, and while she can accept that I no longer believe in the bible, she cannot accept that I could be an athiest. (I told her I wasn't sure, but if God exists, He certainly isn't the demon portrayed in the OT. I said if life is a test, then it's more likely the main question is whether a person thinks God is evil enough to commit all of the acts ascribed to Him in the OT.) She also wouldn't be comfortable with me believing in evolution-- but one thing at a time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I've been using the label "nontheist" for some time now - for times when labels seem necessary. It doesn't have the negative or even "satanic" ring to it among most christians that "atheist" seems to have. Plus, since it's a fairly uncommon term it sometimes gives me a chance to actually explain to someone what my thoughts are around theism when they ask what "nontheist" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Texas: I'm surprised you didn't recommend the term "freethinker", since that's part of your handle. Or is the term too generic? Freethinker: A person who forms opinions about religion on the basis of reason, independently of tradition, authority, or established belief. Freethinkers include atheists, agnostics, and rationalists. No one can be a freethinker who demands conformity to a bible, creed, or messiah. To the freethinker, revelation and faith are invalid, and orthodoxy is no guarantee of truth. Taken from www.ffrf.org Works pretty well for me. I'd never heard the term as a christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 LOP... I don't know that I am a-thiest, as in totally convinced that theree is no external force or being, however I haven't seen any confirmation of such.. It is a bit of a joke, however a serious one to describe myself as a *pannist*, as in "whatever happens panned out.." Don't sweat small shit like "where we came from" or even "where we may be going to" as neither of those options really drive my curiosity that hard. Getting a title laid on you is tough. Others demand to KNOW "what you are!!".. TfT's asnswer is an elegant solution that will turn many hard questions into softer words that may enable you to live with your SO and her problem with *atheism*.. n, professional pannist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 One of the brightest people I've met recently refers to himself as a 'non-cognitivist'. Unfortunately this answer always requires an explanation, as it's not something widely understood. Basically it's the idea that the concept of god is inherently irrational and isn't even worth considering unless it can be defined in human terms. Ironically it is said quite clearly in most religions that it can't. I'm not sure I completely understand the concept of non-cognitivism but I like it. It basically means when the question is asked 'Do you believe in god?' the answer is 'that question is meaningless'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Texas: I'm surprised you didn't recommend the term "freethinker", since that's part of your handle. Or is the term too generic? Freethinker: A person who forms opinions about religion on the basis of reason, independently of tradition, authority, or established belief. Freethinkers include atheists, agnostics, and rationalists. No one can be a freethinker who demands conformity to a bible, creed, or messiah. To the freethinker, revelation and faith are invalid, and orthodoxy is no guarantee of truth. I actually think a freethinker could come down on the side of theism. If someone studied the question in an open-minded manner and felt that there was sufficient evidence to support the conclusion that there were god(s), then I'd have to say that they were still a freethinker, even tho they were a theist. I'm a freethinking nontheist, since I've weighed the evidence and come down on the non-theist side. In fact, I get more perturbed by people who are fundamentalist atheists than I do by freethinking theists. I think what's important is that you keep an open mind and continue to question. That's much better than taking a position on either side and then going into defensive mode - only trying to justify what you already believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftofpunk Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 I've avoided freethinker because3 it has a condescending tone to it. Humanist sounds positive. Nontheist works too but it's pretty close to atheist to the untrained ear heh. Boy this is tough. I suppose secularist is okay. Rationalist is in the same boat as freethinker too. Oh I hate these labels. Maybe i'll stick with humanist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 LOP, I just want to compliment both you and your GF for your rational and meaningful and honest approach to the subject. She tells you openly what her hang-ups are about it. You tell her openly what your struggles are with coming up with the right term. I'd say that if you two continue to have this kind of exchange, you have something infinitely more important in real life and real well-being than what you may find as the ultimate answer for your self-label. (But you'll find that label, btw -- you may have to experiment a bit first.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 On a side note, I tend to work in negatives. To me, labels are a positive claim. When it comes to religion/spirituality I tend to define myself not in terms of describing what I am, but describing what I am not. Example: I'm not a theist. I still don't think that automatically makes me an atheist. I don't necessarily know what I believe, I only know what I don't believe. Is that helpful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 My lady friend is a church-every-Sunday Baptist. Soon after we began seeing each other, I told her that I was "for lack of a better word" an atheist. I didn't like the term agnostic, even though that may fit me more closely....no, maybe not. Now, when talking to people of faith, about faith, I don't label myself. I just say I don't have any religious beliefs. Atheist is to full of taboos. Agnostic sounds wishy-washy. They won't understand what I mean by Humanist or Freethinker, so I just say I have no religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 My problem with the word "agnostic" is that it's really a cop-out. It doesn't answer the question. It evades it. The question is, "Do you believe in God?"; not "Do you know?". Maybe my undying pride has a lot to do with the fact that I'm pretty much a confirmed bachelor, but I would outright refuse to let any prospective mate, regardless of how far we are in our relationship, try to discourage me from saying what I am. I'm an atheist. It's the most direct way to state my attitude about theism. I guess if I had someone tell me that I shouldn't use that because it makes them unconfortable, I would be offended, because they're basically say something about me embarrasses them or makes them unconfortable. I refuse to change for the sake of other people. And I don't mean to get preachy, but I think this should be brought to the attention of your girlfriend. Tell her than changing the term you use to define yourself isn't going to change what you are. You're an atheist. You shouldn't have to try an mask something like that for the sake of making other people more comfortable. That's called being superficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demona- Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 I like atheists...atheists are sexy. I want to lick them. Ok i'm ok now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 I can sort of see where she is coming from. There is a lot of discrimination against atheists in society, at least, in the US. If you start going and advertising yourself as an atheist and being all outspoken about it, chances are a lot of people are going to start giving you the cold shoulder. Whereas if you say you're agnostic, or don't even mention it, they're less likely to discriminate. I know some of the Christians I've talked to seem more inclined to be discriminatory towards atheists rather than agnostics. Why that is, I don't know. Maybe they see agnostics as not being completely hopeless and still being potential targets? Just something I've noticed. Secular Humanist/Freethinker seems to be replacing the word, and they both have less negative baggage attached. My problem with the word "agnostic" is that it's really a cop-out. It doesn't answer the question. It evades it. The question is, "Do you believe in God?"; not "Do you know?". I don't believe saying you're agnostic is a cop-out. It's not "Do you believe in God" and the answer is no, it's refusing to take a position either way. It's like the True Neutral alignment in AD&D. If it is what you are, anyway. If you're not really agnostic, then you should find another label, or discard labels all together. I think labels are just a way for people to lump people into boxes and prejudge you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been borg again Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I avoid the Athiest word like a disease with my christian friends and family. I said the word once to my christian wife, who is extremely tolerant of my exchristianism, and she about flipped out, and I think in a way changed the entire way she relates too me, cuz things havent been quite the same, in how we interact. so I stopped useing the dirty word and went back to Agnostic. For some odd reason Atheist has such negative baggage assoiceated with it. This is the associations I get with the word Atheist.... No Morals No sense of right and wrong. Self destructive. violent. Evil. a hater of Good. suicidal. Criminal. depressed. gothic. DISHONEST drug abuser unintelligent. ANGRY <----- a huge stereotype negative, selfish shallow self centerd egotistical untrustworthy no honor sex pervert .. I cannot think of a single positive association that the word Atheist has in Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I avoid the Athiest word like a disease with my christian friends and family. I said the word once to my christian wife, who is extremely tolerant of my exchristianism, and she about flipped out, and I think in a way changed the entire way she relates too me, cuz things havent been quite the same, in how we interact. so I stopped useing the dirty word and went back to Agnostic. For some odd reason Atheist has such negative baggage assoiceated with it. This is the associations I get with the word Atheist.... .. I cannot think of a single positive association that the word Atheist has in Society Imagine when you say you're a Satanist. That kicks of emotions like fireworks in a nun convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imageownershipproblem Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Knowing my boyfriend, he'll refer to me by the same phrase he's been using for my agnostic daughter and atheist son for several years: "A far better Christian than I am." We're adjusting but it's kind of weird right now. He's not going to accept the "A" word ever and I'm just going to have to accept him not accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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