Guest Los Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I don't know if they've asked this question before, but how could you explain the Holy Spirit? Well, I mean how can you explain the people talking in tongues? I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Holy Spirit: No explanation necessary. It isn't real. Speaking in tongues: Religious hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Speaking is tongues is also known as glossolalia. Wikipedia has an interesting article on it, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia. It plays in quite well with the emotionally charged frenzy fostered by Pentecostal churches. Reminds me of being "slain in the spirit." The evangelist doesn't need to push unconvincingly hard at all after the congregation and parishioners are worked into a suitable frenzy, nor does it take that much for a person to believe himself to be speaking in some other language via the holy spirit. From what I've seen, the first instance is usually quite dramatic and emotionally charged for the person involved, after that he has accepted that he can speak in tongues and no longer needs the charged environment to elicit it. From the "Linguistics" section of the Wikipedia article: "The syllables that make up instances of glossolalia typically appear to be unpatterned reorganizations of phonemes from the primary language of the person uttering the syllables; thus, the glossolalia of people from Russia, the United Kingdom, and Brazil all sound quite different from each other, but vaguely resemble the Russian, English, and Portuguese languages, respectively. Many linguists generally regard most glossolalia as lacking any identifiable semantics, syntax, or morphology." I've had discussions with an ex-Christian friend who knows a lot about linguistics, and that's consistent with his assessment, too. Actually, that's one of the first things I started doubting in the prelude to my deconversion. Long before I questioned the core teachings/assumptions of my church, I questioned whether I personally was "baptized in the holy spirit," and quite soon after it happened. There was something a little "fake" about the way I produced these utterances, and I noticed that it wasn't patterned like English or bonafide foreign (to me) languages. Well, I noticed the same of other people's glossolalia, too, but I sort of shut that out of my mind at first until I started questioning more openly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I questioned whether I personally was "baptized in the holy spirit," and quite soon after it happened. There was something a little "fake" about the way I produced these utterances, and I noticed that it wasn't patterned like English or bonafide foreign (to me) languages. Well, I noticed the same of other people's glossolalia, too, but I sort of shut that out of my mind at first until I started questioning more openly. Very well put, SNM. This sums up my experience with tongues also. About the influence of the Holy Sprit: (aside from the whole tongues / baptism in the HS issue).. Christianity in general believes that, at the moment of conversion, the Holy Spirit enters into a person, and is there to guide and teach the person and help them in their spiritual journey. Wouldn't you think that, if each and every christian had this presence of God inside of them, that they would be inclined to think somewhat alike? That this spirit presence would be significant enough to unify the believers - to give them some kind of a noticeable solidarity? Well, what do we see? At last count, there were over 33,000 different christian denominations. Each one having differences (some minor, and some significant) about what their version of the truth is. We see Catholics killing Protestants and vice-versa. We see fundamental christians condemning liberal christians to hell. We even see an incredible amount of strife and contention even within single churches. Entire churches have split right down the middle and broken up because of disagreements. I've never seen a bunch of back-biters and sneaky gossips than amongst the faithful of the Lawd.. So, where is this influence of the Holy Spirit? Jesus prayed, "that they may be as one, even as we are one" I guess Jesus doesn't get his prayers answered either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookums Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Holy S.......isn't 'he' the one blamed for god's nocturnal emission - (the most noteworthy - being Mary mother of jesus) ? YEah..you could say..then ..that 'he' does all the 'entering'... *hehe* *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everglaze Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 People talking in tongues is confirmation of their insanity. There is no Holy Spirit, it's just another symbol of Christian idiocy. "I have a Holy Spirit that protects me." - Person -five minutes later, the person gets hit by a car and is hospitalized- "I may be hospitalized, but I'm still alive, which is proof that the Holy Spirit protected me!" - Person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Its all an act. I remeber in a pentacostal church I wanted to speak in toungs and stuff I went to the alter the preacher prayed over me over and over and over and over. I couldn't get it. Then he later told me to just keep saying shundi over and over well you finally trip over your tounge making new words to use. Also I copycated alot its funny how your brain will play into it once you get started rolling, jibbering and crap and you'll just get into it. Its no different than people dancing in a club to music basicly copycating and making up stuff. Ever notice most people in those churches are doing the same damn thing "holy laughter" or "shaking" or whatever. I just re read this and noticed something take Shundi remove the H you get sundie the way folks in my town say sunday. that isn't tounges its just making words sound like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 If you want to have fun laughing at someone with the Holy Ghost goto a Southern black baptist church...That is hysterical. People will make damn fools out of themselves just to show how much Jesus Lubs them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Them churches are really annoying to me. I remeber one time I was reading the words to a song on a movie screen (didn't have song books for some reason) this fat lady starts jumping up and down in front of me while her friend decides to stand beside her and twitch. But there was this one time when a preacher tried to jump over his (what ever you call that big ass thing they stand in front off) it fell down with him on top of it on the floor bashing it into a million peices. I wish I had a camera that would've made a good youtube video Why worship a god that makes people mentally ill lol Twitchin, rolling, armslinging, screaming I wonder if anyone had a heart attack or seizure would they be helped or would they think its tha holy ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Why worship a god that makes people mentally ill lol Twitchin, rolling, armslinging, screaming I wonder if anyone had a heart attack or seizure would they be helped or would they think its tha holy ghost. Early on in my conversion process, when I was 12ish years old, new to Pentecostal churches, and not yet astute in the proper and approved ways of twitching, I raised and waved my arms with fists closed during one of those heavily laid on hootin', jumpin', and tongue speakin' sessions. It was nothing more than a) the way I happened to get caught up in the intensity and a novice attempt to worship their way, but one of the ladies of the church saw me, and was seriously concerned that I was anguished, demon possessed, or . It took several weeks for the whole thing to blow over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Like Mythra and Everglaze said, the Holah Spurt is total bunk. If the Holah Spurt entered into each believer to guide said believer in the Xian path, then why so many Ex-Xians? Clearly, the Spurt isn't much of a guide - and the Lard doesn't care that much about having believers to have let them go "astray" anyhow. Jebus prayed that we all may be one, yes. So, even the prayers of almighty sweet Jebus, the only Scum of Gawd, are subject to being answered on the whim of the Lard? After all, that's all the Xian concept of prayer is - begging that the Lard will give you what you want, when a supposedly all-loving god should not need to be begged in the first place. Indeed, Xians don't think very much about the stuff they try to push, do they? Swiss cheese has fewer holes in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I wonder how they decide if its demon possession or holy ghost possession? Why worship a god that makes people mentally ill lol Twitchin, rolling, armslinging, screaming I wonder if anyone had a heart attack or seizure would they be helped or would they think its tha holy ghost. Early on in my conversion process, when I was 12ish years old, new to Pentecostal churches, and not yet astute in the proper and approved ways of twitching, I raised and waved my arms with fists closed during one of those heavily laid on hootin', jumpin', and tongue speakin' sessions. It was nothing more than a) the way I happened to get caught up in the intensity and a novice attempt to worship their way, but one of the ladies of the church saw me, and was seriously concerned that I was anguished, demon possessed, or . It took several weeks for the whole thing to blow over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I wonder how they decide if its demon possession or holy ghost possession? Good question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I wonder how they decide if its demon possession or holy ghost possession? Good question! Babbling, trembling, falling back onto the floor (i.e., being "slain in the spirit"). Indeed! Then again, sanity and rationality wasn't their strong suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 QUESTION: If holy spirit possession was a required sign of the true Christian, why did it happen only to Pentecostals and never to horse and buggy Mennonites? If black garb and horse-and-buggy transportation was a required sign of submission to the lord then why did car-driving Pentecostals have this "signature of the lord" of spirit possession? I had a hard time hearing these questions in my own head over the thunderous preaching of preachers and yelled commands of parents for right conduct and belief. But the questions were there alright when I was 12ish. The loud voices won the day. The holy spirit (or maybe it was the devil) was drowned out until I saw this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Mennonites are against showing out and making fools of there self I guess. I'v heard similar things from other christians that pentacostals are just showing out and making fools of thereself. I mean if its something ever saved person does then ever church or denomination would get possessed. QUESTION: If holy spirit possession was a required sign of the true Christian, why did it happen only to Pentecostals and never to horse and buggy Mennonites? If black garb and horse-and-buggy transportation was a required sign of submission to the lord then why did car-driving Pentecostals have this "signature of the lord" of spirit possession? I had a hard time hearing these questions in my own head over the thunderous preaching of preachers and yelled commands of parents for right conduct and belief. But the questions were there alright when I was 12ish. The loud voices won the day. The holy spirit (or maybe it was the devil) was drowned out until I saw this discussion. Whats slain in the spirit supposed to mean? as I look at that and your description it sounds like bible gods slaying them. you'd tremble, babble maybe and fall if being slayed. Sounds awful when you really think about it. Babbling, trembling, falling back onto the floor (i.e., being "slain in the spirit"). Indeed! Then again, sanity and rationality wasn't their strong suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Whats slain in the spirit supposed to mean? as I look at that and your description it sounds like bible gods slaying them. you'd tremble, babble maybe and fall if being slayed. Sounds awful when you really think about it. In Pentecostal/Charismatic circles (at least many of them including the one I belonged to), being "slain in the spirit" refers to falling over backwards typically at the front of the church after the preacher or some flashy church leader or evangelist lays hands on you (there is someone behind you to catch you). Of course it always occurs in an emotionally charged atmosphere, and generally requires little or no force when the pastor lays hands on your forehead, and like speaking in tongues, it's attributed to the holy spirit. It's just as fraudulent as speaking in tongues, and it makes for just as dramatic a show, I think. Ah, and laying on of hands, for any with different backgrounds, is just that: physically laying hands on another person during prayer, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I'v done that lol I felt the man behind me lay me down I thought I didn't fall back he grabbed me and layed me down. Its all a bunch of tricks I hate laying on the hands I don't know why but when people layed their hands on me when I prayed it made me really nervous I don't like being touched. I been to several pentacostal churches I don't know if its a southern thing or what but my towns littered with them church of god, church of god of prophecy and assemby of god etc. Whats slain in the spirit supposed to mean? as I look at that and your description it sounds like bible gods slaying them. you'd tremble, babble maybe and fall if being slayed. Sounds awful when you really think about it. In Pentecostal/Charismatic circles (at least many of them including the one I belonged to), being "slain in the spirit" refers to falling over backwards typically at the front of the church after the preacher or some flashy church leader or evangelist lays hands on you (there is someone behind you to catch you). Of course it always occurs in an emotionally charged atmosphere, and generally requires little or no force when the pastor lays hands on your forehead, and like speaking in tongues, it's attributed to the holy spirit. It's just as fraudulent as speaking in tongues, and it makes for just as dramatic a show, I think. Ah, and laying on of hands, for any with different backgrounds, is just that: physically laying hands on another person during prayer, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Whats slain in the spirit supposed to mean? as I look at that and your description it sounds like bible gods slaying them. you'd tremble, babble maybe and fall if being slayed. Sounds awful when you really think about it. I've seen Benny Hinn do it on TV. He would touch a person and the person was fall back. The "catchers" would be there to catch the person to keep them from getting hurt by the fall. It was creepy; felt sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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