Hey Women, It's Your Fault You Get Raped. Allah Says So.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks

 

Richard Kerbaj

 

October 26, 2006

 

THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

 

In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

 

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

 

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

 

The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

 

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

 

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

 

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

 

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

 

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

 

Muslim community leaders were yesterday outraged and offended by Sheik Hilali's remarks, insisting the cleric was no longer worthy of his title as Australia's mufti.

 

Young Muslim adviser Iktimal Hage-Ali - who does not wear a hijab - said the Islamic headdress was not a "tool" worn to prevent rape and sexual harassment. "It's a symbol that readily identifies you as being Muslim, but just because you don't wear the headscarf doesn't mean that you're considered fresh meat for sale," the former member of John Howard's Muslim advisory board told The Australian. "The onus should not be on the female to not attract attention, it should be on males to learn how to control themselves."

 

Australia's most prominent female Muslim leader, Aziza Abdel-Halim, said the hijab did not "detract or add to a person's moral standards", while Islamic Council of Victoria spokesman Waleed Ali said it was "ignorant and naive" for anyone to believe that a hijab could stop sexual assault.

 

"Anyone who is foolish enough to believe that there is a relationship between rape or unwelcome sexual interference and the failure to wear a hijab, clearly has no understanding of the nature of sexual crime," he said.

 

Ms Hage-Ali said she was "disgusted and offended" by Shiek Hilali's comments. "I find it very offensive that a man who considers himself as a mufti, a leader of Australia's Muslims, can give comment that lacks intelligence and common sense."

 

Yesterday, the mufti defended the sermon about "adultery and theft", a recorded copy of which has been obtained and translated by The Australian.

 

Sheik Hilali said he only meant to refer to prostitutes as "meat" and not any scantily dressed woman with no hijab, despite him not mentioning the word prostitute during the 17-minute talk.

 

He told The Australian the message he intended to convey was: "If a woman who shows herself off, she is to blame ... but a man should be able to control himself". He said if a woman is "covered and respectful" she "demands respect from a man". "But when she is cheap, she throws herself at the man and cheapens herself."

 

Sheik Hilali also insisted his references to the Sydney gang rapes were to illustrate that Skaf was guilty and worthy of receiving such a harsh sentence.

 

Waleed Ali said Sheik Hilali was "normalising immoral sexual behaviour" by comparing women to meat and men to animals and entirely blaming women for being victims.

 

"It's basically saying that the immoral response of men to women who are not fully covered is as natural and as inevitable as the response of an animal tempted by food," he said.

 

"But (unlike animals) men are people who have moral responsibilities and the capability in engaging in moral action."

 

Revelation of the mufti's comments comes after he criticised Mr Howard last month in The Australian for saying a minority of migrant men mistreated their women. Sheik Hilali said such a minority was found in all faiths. "Those who don't respect their women are not true Muslims."

 

"There's a small percentage found among all religions, but we don't recognise ours as Muslims."

 

Aziza Abdel-Halim said Sheik Hilali's remarks during Ramadan were inaccurate and upsetting to the Muslim community.

 

"They are below and beyond any comment (and) do not deserve any consideration."

[Amethyst]

Saw that. It is extremely pissy.

[Hineni]

My first post here, and of all things, this is what I first reply to. The reason being is, just a few minutes ago, I noticed that my blouse seemed a bit too low, so I adjusted it before opening my office door. I stopped and thought of the times I purposely dressed in a very modest way, as not to attract the attention of men, because it was something taught to me during my xtian upbringing. Then I thought, "What!, am I suppose to wear a freaking burka? What if my eyes are seen and they attract someone's attention? Am I then to wear the mesh-thingy over my eyes, sown into the burka so that I don't tempt someone to do 'evil'?"

 

The nasuea soon passed and I went on with my business.

 

Alex

 

P.S. Oh! It's good to be here. Glad I found you lot.

[♦ nivek ♦]

"No one ever raped a .38"

 

When a nation or group of persons gives up the right to Self Defense, the Ultimate Civil Right, they get idiots making demands such as article outlines.

 

We are only as "Free" as we are willing to compel others to leave us the fuck alone.

 

"Points Go Out"

 

Dhimmitude is not a state in which daFatman or his heirs are willing to live under..

 

kFL

 

My first post here, and of all things, this is what I first reply to. The reason being is, just a few minutes ago, I noticed that my blouse seemed a bit too low, so I adjusted it before opening my office door. I stopped and thought of the times I purposely dressed in a very modest way, as not to attract the attention of men, because it was something taught to me during my xtian upbringing. Then I thought, "What!, am I suppose to wear a freaking burka? What if my eyes are seen and they attract someone's attention? Am I then to wear the mesh-thingy over my eyes, sown into the burka so that I don't tempt someone to do 'evil'?"

 

The nasuea soon passed and I went on with my business.

 

Alex

 

P.S. Oh! It's good to be here. Glad I found you lot.

 

Ms Alex:

 

Welcome to ExC and we're damn glad you elected to join in here.

 

You've put finger on the thing that makes living under the thumbs of the religious/sectarians impossible.

"Who are you gonna piss off today?" is the question with all the assorted fools claiming to be GohWdZ Messengers in any given area.

 

Thing is, no one deserves accosted, beaten, raped, molested or hurt due t someone elses 'slice of morality'.

 

To paraphrase Alexander S.: "When the Religious Proctors came in the night.. we waited with steel bars in the dark corners.. soon there were no Proctors left willing to do the Masters will.."

 

We'll get what we deserve if we allow this sectarian shit to expand into our lives..

 

kFL

[Lycorth]

Mooselims say that it's the fault of "immodestly" dressed women that they get raped?

 

Is this really any surprise, coming from a religion steeped in the Abrahamic tradition of flesh-hating, uber-ascetic, anti-sex and anti-human thinking?

[Kurari]

So, women are worthless meat and men are just stupid animals? Niiiiice. I also love how fast that sheik capitulated, I'm surprised he doesn't have whiplash.

 

In the words of Something Positive "Backpeddle faster, bitch."

[specs appeal]

Welcome Hineni!

 

So, women are worthless meat and men are just stupid animals?

 

Yeah, I was going to say something along that line.

 

(BTW what exactly is wearing hijab going to do? Is it like Mormon undergarments or something? I mean, apparently, no one wearing it has ever been raped or assaulted... pfft, I doubt that somehow.)

 

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

 

"Go to your room, young lady!! And stop tempting those poor menfolk by just being there, or I might have to punish you severely!"

 

Oh, and it seems that no man has ever broken into a home and raped a woman there, or already been in the home and raped someone (like his wife or child) - those things just don't happen! Or wait, maybe that only happens to women who aren't wearing their HIJAB.

 

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

 

Jgtjaitjawtavawrwarekaacwacjwar2k WTF

 

Sheik Hilali said he only meant to refer to prostitutes as "meat" and not any scantily dressed woman with no hijab, despite him not mentioning the word prostitute during the 17-minute talk.

 

Ohhh, THAT'S okay, then. I mean, everyone knows that prostitutes are toilet scum not worthy of the title "human being".

[Asimov]

Mooselims say that it's the fault of "immodestly" dressed women that they get raped?

 

Is this really any surprise, coming from a religion steeped in the Abrahamic tradition of flesh-hating, uber-ascetic, anti-sex and anti-human thinking?

 

I'm not sure, but did you miss the bottom part of the article?

 

"Aziza Abdel-Halim said Sheik Hilali's remarks during Ramadan were inaccurate and upsetting to the Muslim community.

 

"They are below and beyond any comment (and) do not deserve any consideration.""

 

I don't think it's quite fair to label them all like that....

 

*looks at signature*.....

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

Stuff like this reminds me of an episode of King of the Hill where Luann was getting sexually harrassed at work and despite wearing more modest and unattractive clothes, she still got hassled. It's just a bully mentality when you think about it. Sooner or later, the head scarves and staying at home wouldn't be enough for the extremists, they'll start making more and more insane demands against women.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

Mooselims say that it's the fault of "immodestly" dressed women that they get raped?

 

Is this really any surprise, coming from a religion steeped in the Abrahamic tradition of flesh-hating, uber-ascetic, anti-sex and anti-human thinking?

 

I'm not sure, but did you miss the bottom part of the article?

 

"Aziza Abdel-Halim said Sheik Hilali's remarks during Ramadan were inaccurate and upsetting to the Muslim community.

 

"They are below and beyond any comment (and) do not deserve any consideration.""

 

I don't think it's quite fair to label them all like that....

 

*looks at signature*.....

 

Heh. Yeah, the liberal Islamics want to pitch fits about this Sheik Hilali, but you can bet all the fundies in Iraq are nodding their heads in assent and shouting "Praise be to Allah! Filthy infidel women! You get what you deserve, pigs!"

[Lycorth]

I don't think it's quite fair to label them all like that....

 

Heh - actually, my attack was directed at the religion more than the followers, but then again, I haven't much more respect for those who actually believe in Is-lame...

 

I like the part in the article where the more liberal Mooselims claim those who made the statements aren't True Believers™. Just like thoseXian infidels

[Asimov]

I don't think it's quite fair to label them all like that....

 

Heh - actually, my attack was directed at the religion more than the followers, but then again, I haven't much more respect for those who actually believe in Is-lame...

 

I like the part in the article where the more liberal Mooselims claim those who made the statements aren't True Believers™. Just like thoseXian infidels

 

I'll be the first to admit that I know next to nothing of Islam, but does the Koran actually say anything about women getting raped?

[Lycorth]

Kinda-sorta.

 

2:223 Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

 

In other words, fuck your chicks whenever you like. No mention said of regarding the womens' will in this. Seems to be permissive of rape if read the right way - and almost hard not to.

 

And, in regards to the tone of the article and how women are spoken of almost as if they are wicked beings as it is, the koran doesn't seem to give the best counsel on how a faithful Mooselim should regard his wife and children:

64:14 O ye who believe! Lo! among your wives and your children there are enemies for you, therefor beware of them. And if ye efface and overlook and forgive, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

So, it would seem that the tone is set on how a good Mooselim, right in the word of Allaaaaah

[DucorpsToo]

I bet if that piece-of-shit got it up the bum a la "Deliverance", he'd be eating his words pretty damned quick! :angry:

[narcissist]

I think the cleric was talking about a different sort of "gun" control, or lack thereof, Nivek. Besides, where's a beautiful suntanned g-string bikini clad Aussie girl supposed to hide her piece?

[Vigile]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6102700239.html

 

Interesting why he should step down though. He belongs to a sick and stupid religion. Why do those outside this religion insist that they put on a false public front to their twisted beliefs? I say give them enough rope and let them hang themselves in the realm of public opinion

[woodsmoke]

I like the part in the article where the more liberal Mooselims claim those who made the statements aren't True Believers. Just like thoseXian infidels

 

My Islamic Civ professor says this all the time as well about the unsavory characters in Muslim history. He's also fond of pointing out how Shi'ites are "wayward" Muslims, though he has to be careful about wording that one since there's a Twelver Shi'ite woman in the class (though it's rare enough she speaks up in defense of her beliefs; I'm not sure whether that's a facet of her being a muslim woman or she's simply the kind of person who prefers to avoid conflict).

[D Laurier]

the caliph Umar said something about how "a man who cannot control his desires is not a man,"

 

and in the hadith, Mohamed talks about trying to be romantic by applying "sweet words and soft kisses" .

 

And there are a few passages about respecting ones wife when she wishes to be left alone.

 

Plus the tradition of skinning rapists alive and leaving them out on anthills, Which the q'ran does not condemn or abolish.

 

But as with christian fundamentalism, so also with islamic fundamentalism... The combination of mysogyny and sexual repression, plus the fundamentalist need to blame others and avoid responsibility.

Plus typical fundamentalist arrogance.

 

The results are easy to predict

[Jun]

Australia Islamic Cleric Hospitalized

The Associated Press

Monday, October 30, 2006; 12:38 AM

 

SYDNEY, Australia -- Australia's top Islamic cleric, who sparked outrage by saying in a sermon that immodestly dressed women invite rape, was taken to a hospital by ambulance after fainting Monday as he met Muslim leaders to discuss his future, police said.

 

Earlier in the day, Prime Minister John Howard said that Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali may have breached Australia's counterterrorism laws by praising militants in Iraq and Afganistan.

 

Lebanese Muslim Association President Toufic Zreika told reporters outside the Lakemba Mosque that al-Hilali was "okay."Zreika said the meeting between the 65-year-old Egyptian-born Sunni cleric and the Lebanese Muslim Association, which administers the mosque, had not reached a conclusion.

 

"Due to unforeseen circumstances, we were unable to continue our private meeting," Zreika said.

 

Zreika earlier told reporters that al-Hilali, who suffers from a heart condition and asthma, planned to release a statement Monday night on his future as the national mufti.

 

New South Wales state Ambulance Service spokesman John Wilson said that a man who had collapsed at the mosque and was taken to Canterbury Hospital for observation was in stable condition. He declined to confirm the identify of the patient, citing privacy laws.

 

Al-Hilali has rejected calls for his resignation since a national newspaper reported last week that he compared women who do not wear head scarves to "uncovered meat" in a sermon at the mosque.

 

He has apologized for any offense caused by the comments, which drew strong criticism from both non-Muslims and Muslims in Australia and agreed to stop preaching for three months.

 

The same newspaper reported Monday that al-Hilali had used an Arabic radio interview two weeks ago to endorse militancy in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian territories.

 

"Jihad of Iraqi Muslims is jihad, but not when Sunnis and Shias are killing each other that's not jihad," The Australian quoted al-Hilali as saying in Arabic on Oct. 17.

 

It is illegal to incite violence against Australian troops. Australia, a staunch ally in the U.S.-led war on terror, has troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Howard said he did not know if al-Hilali's comments were being investigated.

 

"If you incite people to hurt our troops, that could be an offense," Howard told Southern Cross Broadcasting radio.

 

Al-Hilali was not available for comment about the new allegations.

 

Howard said Australia's 300,000 Muslims should be considering whether al-Hilali is the right person to represent them.

 

"The real worry I have, and it's a very deep worry, is that this will permanently damage the attitudes and perceptions of Muslims in the broader Australian community and I don't want that to happen," Howard said.

 

"There's still time if they deal with it quickly, but time is running out to stop that impression solidifying," he added.

[godlessgrrl]

Hmm.

 

There must be something about the loss of control a person has over their instincts and drives - in this case, sex - that absolutely terrifies the jizz out of guys like Mr. al-Halili.

 

Not sure why, I just always wonder what it is about the sex drive that they're so afraid of. I suppose making the object of their desires into scapegoats (for "causing" what is essentially simply a part of nature) is a way of deflecting the fear about it.

 

Something that also strikes me is how afraid of women such men must be. I mean claiming that women are agents of Satan, created to destroy men, that's pretty hardcore. It isn't a statement borne of courage or indifference, either - sounds more like something coming from a place of sheer, unadulterated, pants-pissing fear.

 

Who knows, really.

 

In any case, both Allah and his fucked-up sheiks can kiss my fat white ass.

[DucorpsToo]

...He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

 

Tell ya what....that just might become a self-fulfilling prophecy if that knuckle-dragging sheikh keeps saying stupid inflammatory shit like that....as he has angered legions of us females. In other words, he'd better watch his back as his untimely demise might not be from the hands of a man, or a health issue (evil grin)

[Jun]

Rape victim defends embattled sheik

A WOMAN who described herself as a rape victim today defended the mufti of Australia, Sheik Taj al-Din al-Hilaly, saying his controversial comments did not mean he justified rape.

 

Cindy Taylor walked with the sheik down the steps of Sydney's Lakemba Mosque after prayers today, before speaking to reporters.

 

The sheik has been at the centre of controversy since likening immodestly dressed women to uncovered meat and suggesting they invited sexual assault.

 

Ms Taylor said she understood what the sheik had tried to say, and called on Australians to be more open-minded.

 

"He was not being politically correct. But, he's not a politician, he's a philosophical leader," she said.

 

"He's a wonderful man and his analogy certainly did not justify the act of rape.

 

"He believes that the act of rape is one of the worst capital crimes in Islam."

 

Ms Taylor said she had been raped twice, when she was 14 and 30, but no one was ever charged.

 

She said was raised a Christian who had developed an interest in Islam.

 

There were only about 100 worshippers at Lakemba Mosque today, in contrast to yesterday when more than 1000 people assembled to hear the sheik speak.

 

Police and journalists outnumbered onlookers from the Muslim community outside the mosque.

 

The sheik had asked followers to call off a rally planned for today and attend Friday prayers instead.

 

Sheik al-Hilaly yesterday said he would resign if an impartial panel found him guilty of inciting rape. He also promised to tape shut his mouth for six months.

 

Tom Zreika, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association (LMA), which administers Lakemba Mosque, today said he believed the furore over the mufti's comments was now "dead in the water".

 

He also said he believed an ethical tribunal to judge the sheik's comments was a good idea.

[Kurari]

Rape victim defends embattled sheik

 

A WOMAN who described herself as a rape victim today defended the mufti of Australia, Sheik Taj al-Din al-Hilaly, saying his controversial comments did not mean he justified rape.

 

While I'm sorry this woman is a rape victim (Twice! Shit!) she's not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

In reference to cats eating meat left uncovered as analogy to women and their choices of clothing, the sheik said, and I quote: " whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?"

 

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

 

So he is allegating blame. Men again are still being compared to stupid animals who are incapable of controlling themselves, and women are being compared to meat.

 

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

 

If a man goes walking naked down the street, does this mean it's ok for someone to jump on him and rape him? What if he was especially attractive?

 

Why don't we force men to stay indoors and force them only to have the sex they are allowed, like a good pet owner does with keeping their cat and the kibble? They are obviously not the sensible ones, and if women are the ones who have to keep them from being bad anyway, we might as well be doing it right. Stick a collar on the men and chain them up like dogs if they're bad, since they are worthless, mindless drones. Let's neuter them while we're at it once we've had enough children.

 

Amazing how fast this sort of rhetoric can turn into sexual opression of either gender, isn't it?

 

Religion makes it so easy not to have to deal with the "real" world.

[godlessgrrl]

Okay, that bitch's misguided sense of compassion has overriden her common sense.

 

I don't know what the hell she's thinking, but women shouldn't tolerate misogyny like that. That's bullshit. I don't buy it for a fucking minute.

 

The guy's a misogynist ass. An endorsement by a shortsighted rape victim doesn't change that. (He gets no endorsement from this rape survivor, fwiw.)

[Onyx]

What a contemptible thing to say about women.

If a woman is uncovered or covered and a man rapes him then it is THE man's fault only. The woman is not to be blamed, it is the man's fault for exerting too much power over a innocent woman's body.

 

Shame on the sheik. The sad thing is, he's gaining support in Australia AND NZ! (I thought NZ had the most moderate and liberal muslims in world!!)

 

How he'd like it if a woman preach that if a man doesn't cover his body with jackets, balcalvas, pants and sun glasses; Then that man will be raped by a lascivious woman and a gay man in an alley?

 

Not at all. That is a horrible thing to say about men. So it is the same about his comment. He horrified me, other good women and men in the world with that misgynistic comment.

 

Shame on you!