A few questions from a Christian (Not offensive)

[Guest college_kid215]

Hello,

 

I am new here. I am a junior at a liberal arts college. I am a Christian and just had a few honest questions for everyone, perhaps you could clarify some of your positions. I really don't want to start a harsh, mean debate. I am looking for an honest intellectual discussion.

 

Let me just say also, that I tend to be more rational than other Christians. (I know you probably think that is a silly statement) But I don't rely on feelings or subjectivity to prove my faith. Now, all theists have to eventually make a leap of faith. But I would also say that all atheists have to make this leap as well. A total committment to the belief or affirmation that there is absolutely no god is a jump too. I think the most honest people are most likely agnostics.

 

I realize that God may or may not exist. If he does exist, no amount of science can disprove him to not exist. Conversly, if he does not exist, no amount of faith can make him exist either.

 

I have noticed a harsh hostility towards Christianity from some atheists. Hear me out before you critize. I realize that Christianity is responsible for MANY deaths, atrocities, and crimes have been in the name of Christianity, and there is no excuse for that. But let's not forget that crimes have occured under atheism as well, as in Stalin's Russia. I realize that religion has hurt some of you, and for that I apologize. Now with all that being said, I hope that will provide accurate background for my questions.

 

Why do many of you write Xians? How can it be difficult to write a simple name. Especially since many of you believe he did not exist or was not who he said he was? (I don't think it is out of respect either, as I have heard some explanations say.) I can write Zeus, Mars, etc. without a problem.

 

Is there a hositilty toward a single religion or religion in general? I realize this is a leading question in that I am assuming there is hostility toward religion. But I do notice it. For example, having the cartoon character Calvin peeing on a Jesus fish, and other disrespectful jabs directed mainly at Christianity.

 

I guess that's enough for now. If anyone wants to write me for a discussion of ideas, I'm at BMW890@yahoo.com. Thanks

 

Nick

[Guest MalaInSe]

A recognition of lack of evidence does not require a "leap of faith." Are you agnostic as to pink unicorns? By your logic, an assertion they don't exist requires a leap of faith on your part.

 

What's wrong with Xian?

 

Ren

[Guest college_kid215]

I agree. A recognition of lack of evidence does not require a 'leap of faith.' To me that's an agnostic. But a statement of "there is no god" is more of an affirmation than anything else.

 

I just find it interesting that Xian is used. As is 'Jebus.' Athelists do not believe in God or Christ, so why is it hard to write the words. Why try to dis-respect something that does not exist to begin with?

 

Nick

 

 

A recognition of lack of evidence does not require a "leap of faith."  Are you agnostic as to pink unicorns?  By your logic, an assertion they don't exist requires a leap of faith on your part.

 

What's wrong with Xian?

 

Ren

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[Guest Scorpio]

Why do many of you write Xians?  How can it be difficult to write a simple name.  Especially since many of you believe he did not exist or was not who he said he was?  (I don't think it is out of respect either, as I have heard some explanations say.)  I can write Zeus, Mars, etc. without a problem.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I use it to differentiate between non-fundamentalists (Christians) and fundamentalists (xians).

 

Is there a hositilty toward a single religion or religion in general?

 

I have a general hatred for organized religion. More specifically, my issue isn't with having faith, it's with being a self righteous asshole in the name of that faith, and cramming it down the throats of other through violence.

 

For example, having the cartoon character Calvin peeing on a Jesus fish, and other disrespectful jabs directed mainly at Christianity.

 

I don't owe you respect on the basis of your being alive. And I've not met many christians that I do respect (fundies or no). Christianity has fucked a lot of people up, so pissing on it sounds like a damn good idea.

[Guest MalaInSe]

I agree.  A recognition of lack of evidence does not require a 'leap of faith.'  To me that's an agnostic.  But a statement of "there is no god" is more of an affirmation than anything else. 

 

I just find it interesting that Xian is used.  As is 'Jebus.'  Athelists do not believe in God or Christ, so why is it hard to write the words.  Why try to dis-respect something that does not exist to begin with?

 

Nick

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Well, I don't use "Jebus" though it doesn't bug me (because I don't really care). However, you're going to be seriously outclassed here if you don't know that X is a Greek shorthand for Christ that was used by ancient Christians before the common use of the cross. It's a form of shorthand, not disrespect.

 

So, you believe pink unicorns may exist?

[Guest Scorpio]

I just find it interesting that Xian is used.  As is 'Jebus.'  Athelists do not believe in God or Christ, so why is it hard to write the words.  Why try to dis-respect something that does not exist to begin with?

 

No one owes any part of christianity any respect. Jebus is used to laugh at it. Jesus was not a real person. So we change his name, make it sound silly or goofy, because to me, it's like you're getting upset that someone is making fun of Snoopy. Also, the variations of Jebus that you'll see are usually used to represent hysteria on the part of the christians the poster is talking about.

[Guest college_kid215]

I am not going to be 'outclassed.' I am aware of your referrence. That's why in my first post I said that I have heard why some don't write it, as the famous PX symbol.

 

Well, I don't use "Jebus" though it doesn't bug me (because I don't really care).  However, you're going to be seriously outclassed here if you don't know that X is a Greek shorthand for Christ that was used by ancient Christians before the common use of the cross.  It's a form of shorthand, not disrespect.

 

So, you believe pink unicorns may exist?

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[Guest college_kid215]

An interesting quote you said. "I don't owe you respect on that basis of you being alive." Interesting, you do not respect your fellow man? How many wars have been committed under this thinking. I do owe everyone respect for being alive. Christian, atheist, whatever. We are all human.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I use it to differentiate between non-fundamentalists (Christians) and fundamentalists (xians).

I have a general hatred for organized religion. More specifically, my issue isn't with having faith, it's with being a self righteous asshole in the name of that faith, and cramming it down the throats of other through violence.

I don't owe you respect on the basis of your being alive. And I've not met many christians that I do respect (fundies or no). Christianity has fucked a lot of people up, so pissing on it sounds like a damn good idea.

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[Guest Scorpio]

An interesting quote you said.  "I don't owe you respect on that basis of you being alive."  Interesting, you do not respect your fellow man?  How many wars have been committed under this thinking.  I do owe everyone respect for being alive.  Christian, atheist, whatever.  We are all human.

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I was taught (and I agree) that respect is EARNED. When I've got a damn good reason to respect you, in the way your original post intended, I will. I *value* human life, but I don't necessarily *respect* it.

[Mythra]

Keep in mind, collegekid, that this is not strictly an atheist site.

 

This is an ex-christian site, and the venom and anger spewed here is usually in direct proportion to how much of our heart and soul and money and years of our lives that we gave to the Lord Jesus Christ before we found him to be a myth, left with a handful of feathers and broken, disingenuous, fucked up lives.

[Guest college_kid215]

Well, thanks, I guess I didn't consider that and it makes the most sense. As for everyone else, I am not trying to start anything. And I have read some testimonies.

 

Keep in mind, collegekid, that this is not strictly an atheist site.

 

This is an ex-christian site, and the venom and anger spewed here is usually in direct proportion to how much of our heart and soul and money and years of our lives that we gave to the Lord Jesus Christ before we found him to be a myth, left  with a handful of feathers and broken, disingenuous, fucked up lives.

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[been borg again]

I dont see COLLEDGEKID as attacking at all.

 

I think Colledgekid is trying to find a spiritual reason why people use disrespectful terms toward Jesus/God.

 

And if you lived in a Non-western Culture, you would find curse words and slang that disrespect other sacred objects beside biblegod.

[Guest college_kid215]

Thanks for the post. As I read more of your testimonies, I understand that many of you have been hurt by people in religion or religious institutions themselves. Again, I apologize. But as scientific, objective people I don't think you should base your current beliefs about God on the actions of these people. If you come to a rational logical discesion, thats cool. But don't be hostile cause of them. Basing your current beliefs (either for God or in Atheism) shouldn't be because of the wrong doing of others (in your case, theists) Just as I wouldn't base my beliefs on any wrongdoings atheists have done to me. Thats really just a hypothetical example.

 

Nick

 

This was not mainly directed at you born again

 

I dont see COLLEDGEKID as attacking at all.

 

I think Colledgekid is trying to find a spiritual reason  why people use disrespectful terms toward Jesus/God.

 

And if you lived in a Non-western Culture, you would find curse words and slang that disrespect other sacred objects beside biblegod.

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[Guest college_kid215]

Let me clarify. If you come to an atheist world view, that's fine. Just don't do it based on anything else but objective evidence.

 

Thanks for the post.  As I read more of your testimonies, I understand that many of you have been hurt by people in religion or religious institutions themselves.  Again, I apologize.  But as scientific, objective people I don't think you should base your current beliefs about God on the actions of these people.  If you come to a rational logical discesion, thats cool.  But don't be hostile cause of them.  Basing your current beliefs (either for God or in Atheism) shouldn't be because of the wrong doing of others (in your case, theists)  Just as I wouldn't base my beliefs on any wrongdoings atheists have done to me.  Thats really just a hypothetical example. 

 

Nick

 

This was not mainly directed at you born again

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[Guest MalaInSe]

I am not going to be 'outclassed.'  I am aware of your referrence.  That's why in my first post I said that I have heard why some don't write it, as the famous PX symbol.

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Then what is your problem with it?

 

And it's XP (Chi Rho). The fact of the matter is, you're going to find that many people here know more about your faith than you do. Hence the outclassing. I don't see it as a sign of disrespect because, as you say, you can't disrespect something that doesn't exist. However, I have no idea why you see using Chi as a form of disrespect, especially as it was use by Christians to designate their faith. If you prefer the symbol of Jesus's execution, more power to you.

 

Oh, and a note on your comment about atheists commiting atrocities... the big distinction here is that such atrocities were not committed in the name of atheism, as are atrocities made in the name of God. Also remember that atheism is not one set of doctrine, but that atheists may have diverging philosophies on life. Christian atrocities were committed on the basis of the word allegedly generated by your god, and they were committed time and time again based upon that word.

 

That is not, however, why I do not believe. Try to understand the distinction here: One reason that I do not believe is that people have committed atrocities on the alleged word of your god, who you assert to be good. Compounding the long history of this practice is the modern Christian's disavowal of the commission of such atrocities, confirming the complete lack of potential for coherent practice of the faith. Contradiction upon contradiction. A good god that inspires atrocity with a lack of clear communication of acts that constitute faith. If a god exists, I can make a fairly affirmative statement that he is not your god.

 

Pink unicorns?

[been borg again]

This was not mainly directed at you born again

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no problem MACGYVER

[Guest Challenger]

  Let me clarify. If you come to an atheist world view, that's fine. Just don't do it based on anything else but objective evidence.

 

That's pretty much why I consider myself to be an atheist.

 

By the way, I've never been a Christian.

[Guest college_kid215]

Okay, okay, I know all about the Chi Rho. And I don't appreciate your tone that everyone here is automatically smarter than me. I know all about Constantine's conversion seeing the Chi Rho in a dream, blah blah blah. I just make the reference in hopes that I you recognize that I have some education.

 

The point really wasn't about the Chi Rho. It was more about a matter of why? Don't fool me into thinking you are really usings xians as a form of shorthand or to harken back to the greek language. The point is that there was a number of disrespectful things toward christ (and not just religion as an institution) Calvin peeing on the jesus fish? Enlighten me as to how that related to anything but dis-respect?

 

And I don't care if you do that. This is an ex-christian website. So I would expect it. It just seems silly to not want to write the word christ if you think he never existed.

 

 

Then what is your problem with it?

 

And it's XP (Chi Rho).  The fact of the matter is, you're going to find that many people here know more about your faith than you do.  Hence the outclassing.  I don't see it as a sign of disrespect because, as you say, you can't disrespect something that doesn't exist.  However, I have no idea why you see using Chi as a form of disrespect, especially as it was use by Christians to designate their faith.  If you prefer the symbol of Jesus's execution, more power to you.

 

Pink unicorns?

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[Guest MalaInSe]

The point really wasn't about the Chi Rho. 

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Well, I do find it kind of funny that you won't answer the question that does seem to go to your point.

 

Do you believe that pink unicorns may exist?

[Guest college_kid215]

Thanks for the honest answer. I really appreciate it.

 

Many of us here also came to where we are at not because of being hurt by the religious institutions, but reading and studying the bible for ourselves without a pastor or someone else making things seem not so bad.  A lot of us left because of the atrocities of the bible god and the total and inescapable contradictions within the "holy word."

 

Some of the atheist were pastors, home group leaders, worship leaders etc, and also life long Christians.  I can't speak for everyone but when I come to this exchristian site, it is a place for me to vent my frustrations without worrying about offending those who disagree.  However, I would never speak to any friend of mine who believes the way they do.  But this is an ExChristian site, and if people want to nickname Jesus (really Yeshua is the "true" name) or god, then I completely understand.

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[Guest Scorpio]

But as scientific, objective people I don't think you should base your current beliefs about God on the actions of these people.

 

I am neither scientific, nor objective. Science bores the hell out of me, to be honest. I'm more of a history person. And I'm human, so objectivity is a no-go.

 

If you come to a rational logical discesion, thats cool.  But don't be hostile cause of them.

 

I'm not hostile at "God" because of "them" at all. I'm hostile towards THEM because of what THEY have done to me. And I shall continue to be until my anger at christianity is good and exorcised.

 

Basing your current beliefs (either for God or in Atheism) shouldn't be because of the wrong doing of others (in your case, theists)  Just as I wouldn't base my beliefs on any wrongdoings atheists have done to me.  Thats really just a hypothetical example.

 

I'm not liking the insinuation that we've away from christianity because most christians suck. In my case, it was the overall suckiness of the christians I knew that made me try HARDER to believe, not to turn away. When it finally dawned on me that there was no Jesus, I was crushed, and angry at how I had been treated MY WHOLE LIFE, and I'm done with that. I didn't turn away because I didn't like christians. I turned away because it's not true.

[Guest college_kid215]

Okay, a simple test. Could you type 'Jesus Christ' for me. And answer my question about Calvin peeing on the fish?

 

Look, I hate getting into this. It's not going to go anywhere unless its an honest discussion of ideas. Can we please keep it that way.

 

Now, as to the pink unicorns. I don't think it appropriate to change the topic here. I would love to debate this in a different manner. If you email me at bmw890@yahoo.com I would be more than happy to engage in that sort of debate.

 

 

Well, I do find it kind of funny that you won't answer the question that does seem to go to your point.

 

Do you believe that pink unicorns may exist?

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[white_raven23]

Welcome college_kid215,

 

I don't happen to be an athiest. I'm a deist. I have nothing against christianity that I don't also have towards any other religion be it judaism, muslim, mormonism, or whatnot.

 

As for religion in general, I'm not a fan of it. It's purpose is social control and distraction.

 

I don't believe Jesus was divine, but I'm willing to entertain the possibility he existed. I think it's a sad egotistical aspect of humanity that for a person's words to be worth hearing and thinking about, that person has to be either divinely inspired or the offspring of a divinity for society to consider them worth listening to.

 

I believe there is a god. I don't believe in biblegod.

 

As for the xtian thing......are you offended when people use X-Mas instead of Christmas?

If you are, that's fine, but don't try to change the behavior of those here because you have a pet peeve. We write about christians a lot here. It's just an abbreviation in my usage.

[been borg again]

WOW wierd,

everytime I try to type the name there is some spiritual force keeping me from doing so....

Jesuz Chrifg

Jeesus Crissssp

Geezus Krist

JeeSU

Jesup

 

 

wow I honestly cant do it. wierd.

[Alice]

Okay, a simple test.  Could you type 'Jesus Christ' for me.  And answer my question about Calvin peeing on the fish? 

 

Look, I hate getting into this.  It's not going to go anywhere unless its an honest discussion of ideas.  Can we please keep it that way.

 

Now, as to the pink unicorns.  I don't think it appropriate to change the topic here.  I would love to debate this in a different manner.  If you email me at bmw890@yahoo.com I would be more than happy to engage in that sort of debate.

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I can type 'Jesus Christ' for you - although in some ways that has made me feel uncomfortable - because I can't really see why it's necessary - and therefore it feels a bit disrespectful.

 

The peeing on a fish thing feels a bit disrespectful to me too - but in a different way. Feels like it feels necessary for some people - to challenge images that would perhaps for some be disrespectful. It can be useful to the thought process to challenge what has previously been beyond challenge - to touch what you believed was untouchable - to blaspheme and not be struck by lightening.