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Goodbye Jesus

Men, Women And Their Beliefs


Open_Minded

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I voted female atheist. Re decisions made by logic or emotional, I find myself using both. From the emotional side, I am concerned about morals and ethics and just plain human respectability.

 

From the logical side I am concerned about factual accuracy when it comes to truth, as well as concrete evidence from cause and effect. This takes into account what causes what feelings as well as things like how did the universe come into being and how accurate is the biblical account.

 

From the feeling side, there is definitely "something more" than can be experienced by logic. However, it is logically illogical to dismiss this experience. From the logical side, I know that science has found a spot on the brain that, when stimulated, can cause religious feelings. This would seem to account for the religious or spiritual experiences. Some human individuals seem more spiritual than others. My guess is that some people are more adept at stimulating this "god spot" than others.

 

As for concrete evidence. One of the things to look at is the credibility of the biblical report. Can it be made to hang together? Yes and no. Depends on one's hermeneutic. Using a hermeneutic for the simple reading of the plain text, it most definitely does not hang together. Using the hermeneutic for harmonizing scripture it can be made to hang together just fine.

 

Even for those people who use the harmonizing hermeneutic, there is considerable disagreement as to exactly what the Bible is saying. I get around that by subscribing to archaeological findings and textual analysis and criticism. It seems like the Bible is bits and pieces strung together, some of it more for political purposes than anything else.

 

From a logical perspective, the Bible is hardly credible regarding the historical record. Regarding science and geography it is just plain wrong more times than not.

 

That's a pretty strong argument for atheism from the logical perspective.

 

On this forum I found out:

 

1. Atheist does not mean proof for god's nonexistence.

2. Atheists are just as liable to be good, honest, compassionate, and respectful people as Christians, if not more so.

3. The parts of the Bible that seemed horrific the first time I read them as an adolescent also seem horrific to lots of other people; it's not just me.

 

That's a pretty strong argument for atheism from the emotional perspective.

 

When both the logical and emotional conclusions agree, it seems that for the sake of integrity one must accept atheism. Just speaking for myself here. The analyses don't come out the same for everyone.

 

So there you've got one female on atheism.

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Guest tomorrowshorizon

All right, as a female atheist (specifically one that went through pagan and agnostic phases before admitting to myself that I'd actually been an atheist for quite some time), I'm going to take a crack at this.

 

First of all, I think it's relevant that we still live in a society with strong (although weakening) gender roles and ideas of how each gender should behave. One of the older beliefs about gender that is unfortunately still around is the idea that men are superior to women (or at least that they're supposed to be the strong aggressive ones, and the women are supposed to be the calm, conciliatory ones). This is especially relevant in a community made up of Ex-Christians, because Christianity is both explicitly and implicitly patriarchal.

 

These gender roles shape the psychology of both men and women, so they tend to be conditioned to behave in ways that the stereotypes dictate. So, when I'm giving explanations down here, don't think I mean that women are inherently this way or that all women are this way (us freethinking women are proof of that!). However, I do think that certain attitudes are common among women, and that these attitudes shed some light on why there are not as many atheist women as there are atheist men.

 

Also, all of these explanations can apply to men, too. They just tend to be more present in women, from what I've observed and read.

 

In light of that, here are my explanations.

 

a) Many women feel more comfortable having someone to confirm what they know, and to tell them what's right. Sociological studies have shown that women tend to tack on phrases like "don't you think?" or "but that's just my opinion" after making an opinion statement or truth claim. Because patriarchy teaches women to second-guess themselves, insecurity about having strong opinions plagues many women. This is one of the reasons why having a big group of gal friends is important to women; they are often seeking to validate their opinions and experiences. For women, gods (or the possibility of them) can act as this validation that they seek. If you're insecure, it feels good to have "divine wisdom" to turn to. Many women also like to have set rules and guidelines that tell them what they're supposed to be doing, and so religious rules comfort them.

 

B)The concepts of "sin" and "grace" are familiar and comforting to many women. Women in our society are often pressured to do everything for everyone all of the time. They are expected to care about others to the exclusion of themselves, and to see to everyone else's needs first. This leads to To-Do lists with an impossible number of tasks to be achieved in a finite amount of time. Because of the impossible number of tasks they feel they should complete every day, women frequently feel like they're letting everyone down. They feel as though they SHOULD be able to do it all, no matter if it looks impossible to an ordinary human being, and that they are failures for not managing to be this super-human woman. Because women already feel inadequate and unworthy, the doctrine of sin is familiar and comforting. The teaching that everyone sins no matter how hard they try makes them feel less alone, and the idea of being forgiven relieves a major burden that their own expectations have placed upon them. Women may also be drawn to the idea that they're just supposed to be homemakers; if they're already doing all the housework and childcare as well as an outside job, the simple life of a domestic serf appears relaxing in comparison.

 

c) Women are less likely to rock the boat or be impolitic. – In order to gain power, women have historically had to compromise, compared to the men who simply had power handed to them. Because they did not have power of their own, the method of compromising has been taught from mother to daughter for hundreds of generations. While we are beginning to realize that it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to be strong and even abrasive, lots of women have already internalized the methods of relativism and compromise. They avoid outright conflict because they've been taught that when a woman takes on a man or a male system (like religion), the woman loses. So, instead of proclaiming loudly that they are atheists, there are a number of women that convince themselves or tell others that they're "agnostic" or "just generically theist," because it's considered less "impolite."

 

d) Women are more "open to possibilities" are and are more likely to have a hard time telling anyone else their belief is wrong – Because of the habit of compromising, women take relativistic stances that allow them to be "open" to the possibility of anything. This is the same reason why many women fall for psychics, and it's the same reason why magazines like Seventeen have horoscope sections. Essentially, women are superstitious; thus, they are more likely to fall for the biggest superstition of all: religion.

 

d) Paganism is empowering to women (without all of that scary independence stuff.) Paganism has really been nice to women, especially lately. After suffering under the oppressive reign of a vindictive God-King, there is something beautiful about letting go of that old image, in favor of a god that's more like oneself. Thinking that you have a special spiritual connection with a natural and powerful female force is heady! After years of being worthless and inferior due to that damn legend named Eve, it's eye-opening to learn of the Jewish myth of Lilith, the woman who was created side by side with Adam and who left him because he was an ass. But at the same time, paganism allows women to keep their old crutches. They still have someone to confirm their opinions, and still can be tolerant and open-minded and polite. There is still a divine truth to seek. Is it any wonder why a woman would like to feel holy and justified by the Goddess after toiling for a God for so long?

 

e) Women have had more opportunity to practice cognitive dissonance, and are thus better at it. Being a Christian woman requires more cognitive dissonance than being a Christian man, because you have to deal with both the old testament's sexist laws and Paul's sexist interpretation of the Gospel. Women can engage in one of three delusions: (1) That those were just cultural things that don't apply anymore, (2) they're not really breaking those edicts because they got their husband's permission *cough*PhyllisSchlafly*cough*, or (3) despite the fact that they personally feel worthwhile and smart, they are actually still inferior. All of these require a major talent for self-deception, and the better you are at lying to yourself, the hard it is to get out of religion.

 

f) Many women are really, really attached to the concept of an afterlife. This must just be good marketing by the Christians, because I'm not really sure why this is disproportionately important to women (but I have found it to be). "Yeah, your life sucks now, but it'll be great after you die!" might be a message that appeals to women since, like blacks, they don't want their collective suffering to have been in vain. They also tend to emotionalize things (since cognitive dissonance doesn't allow for a whole lot of logical thinking), and afterlives assuage their fears. They also want to believe in an afterlife for family members, and recognize the usefulness of "heaven" as a way to soothe grief-stricken people.

 

Hope that helps.

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Short answer, after voting:

 

Women do tend to be more spiritual than men. Ironic, considering that plenty of religions relegate women to a degrading housekeeper role and glorify malehood as the prime state of being.

 

In a way, I think this almost proves a woman's deeper ability for spirituality: the male force, generally speaking, could be described as based on domination and self-glorification. Whereas a woman, like a mother, is understanding of these fits of grandeur and accepts them out of love for the men perpetuating them.

 

Not that I plan on kissing male ass throughout my lifetime........just a thought. Of course it's probably tainted by a bad history with my father.

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Sage, I got a brain-wave while reading your post. Maybe men have to be exalted to get them into religion at all. Women want their men in religion with them and the only way to get them in is by allowing them leadership positions and all the glory that goes with that.

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Female atheist.

It's been about four and a half years since I deconverted from Christianity, and only very recently have I become comfortable with calling myself an atheist... Well, comfortable saying it my head, anyway. I think there's only one friend who I actually came out and said "I'm an atheist" to...

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I checked 'agnostic' because what I really am is 'indifferent.' I don't care, as I don't see the question of deity existing as relevant since, if it does, it's undetectable and therefore it's existence is no different for us than non-existence. Much better to put time, energy, attention, to people and things that are here before me and verified.

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Guest Nymphetamine

I chose Female who believes in some type of god. I'm Pagan. I worship the Celtic and Greek deities.

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Guest Psycho of the Sea

The following is a true story. I had a Uncle Henry who lived in S.C. He was a faithful churchgoer and Christian all of his life. The time finally came for him to pass on outta this world and the family was gathered around him in his hospital room. When the moment came for him to pass on, he said this. He got a big smile on his face and told the family, it is not what you think it is, it is not what you have been told. This of course freaked the family out and we still talk about it sometimes to this day. Was it a dying brain playing tricks on him to make dying easier or was it for real? As far as I am concerned it was simply the human mind accepting death as best it could. If it does happen to be true, then it is nothing like the Babble said it is. Big surprise there, huh? What do yall think?

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He got a big smile on his face and told the family, it is not what you think it is, it is not what you have been told.

...............

 

Big surprise there, huh? What do yall think?

 

I didn't catch exactly what it was he saw or heard that was different from what we've been taught. I would have to know that before I can comment on it.

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I didn't vote, I fit into two categories. I'm a female agnostic who believes in some type of God, but the nature of God is something I haven't really defined yet. Lately I've been entertaining some pantheistic notions; I change my views as I learn more.

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I've taken to the term Apatheist lately. I love the idea of gods and the supernatural, but also know that the world would be a much harder place if there were beings with superpowers.

 

I use the saame logic with comic book heroes. Love to read about them, glad they are not real.

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I'm female and agnostic. I can't say I'm an atheist because I cannot say for sure that there is no god. I don't think anyone can really say for sure that there is no god, just as no one can really say for sure that there is a god. And since emotions are subjective, no one can use their emotions to prove there is a god.

 

Back in the fundie church they used to say things like, "I know in my heart that there is a god," or "I know in my heart that I am saved," and other such nonsense.

 

However, I am a somewhat spiritual person. I have finally come to terms with this. When I isolate my mind and my being from any other life and concentrate on things bigger than or outside myself and this world, I sense deep inside that there is something bigger out there somewhere, and that I am connected with it, and have some part or destiny in it. Even that I will be united with it someday. Why is it that I feel this way? It almost seems like it is the part of me that longs for that spiritual connection again.

 

Or perhaps it is simply cosmic truth; when I die, my body returns to the earth and becomes a part of the earth once again, and eventually the earth will not be the earth anymore, and after enough time passes, the particles of the earth will be spread out in the universe, and among them will be my particles. Therefore I will reunite with the rest of the universe. Perhaps the particles that came from my body will give way to new life of another form.

 

But at the same time I strongly believe that death is the end, there is no more. So I suppose I have this internal contradiction that has not yet been resolved. I live as an atheist and hope as a deist. Because I strongly believe that death is the end, and now lack the coping mechanism provided by Christianity, I often suffer psychological and emotional pain and depression due to the fear of separation from the ones that I love.

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I am offended; there needs to be an option for the Third Gender.

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Male, agnostic, with opinions...

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Male, atheist, though not hardcore. I have speculations, but they are *just* that, speculations on spiritual things, but pretty much grounded nowadays in a "there is no god at all" mindset, though if there was REAL concrete proof of one, I *would* be open to change my standpoint, thus the "not hardcore" part. But I seriously doubt it will ever be proven because most of the logic/science/scale/common-sense reasonings I have, pretty much point to a "no god" situation in the cosmos.

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I voted female that believes in some type of God

 

'God' becoming much more a mystery to me and my becoming much more comfortable with God being a mystery

 

sojourner

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Another vote for 'Male who believes in some type of God.' I consider myself heathen (Irminist). The germanic gods/goddesses of my ancestors are part of my worldview.

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I voted female who believes in some type of God. I haven't quite worked out a description yet but I'm OK with that. Tell you one thing though--it sure isn't Bible god.

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One agnostic male here...but the God that may or may not exist as I see it, is but a watchmaker concept from the deists.

 

I am a very strong atheist in regards to the illogical, power hungry, and very obviously man - originated gawds of organized religion.

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Male, agnostic, asshole.

 

I'm agnostic for several reasons: 1) outright atheism implies a rigid belief system that has the potential for dogmatism; 2) I suspect that "something" might be out there, but I don't know what it is, and I kind of don't want to know; 3) you can never know with certainty that "nothing" is what's out there, although we can safely disregard the Christian god, I think (or hope).

 

I think that one possible reason for the greater religiosity among women is that that generally women have harder lives than men. This is true no matter what the region or religion. Women are more devote Hindu's, Buddhists, even Musims. They carry the flame of religion, instilling it in their children despite the fact that every one of these religions has some degree of mysogyny.

 

That's a more likely theory. The people of the early church were either poor people or wealthy matrons. In Romany society, even wealthy women were entirely subordinate and inferior, but in the church they would be very highly regarded by people if they supported it with their resources. Paul is constantly giving "shout-outs" to people in his letters; note how many are women.

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Male, agnostic, asshole.

 

I'm agnostic for several reasons: 1) outright atheism implies a rigid belief system that has the potential for dogmatism; 2) I suspect that "something" might be out there, but I don't know what it is, and I kind of don't want to know; 3) you can never know with certainty that "nothing" is what's out there, although we can safely disregard the Christian god, I think (or hope).

 

I think that one possible reason for the greater religiosity among women is that that generally women have harder lives than men. This is true no matter what the region or religion. Women are more devote Hindu's, Buddhists, even Musims. They carry the flame of religion, instilling it in their children despite the fact that every one of these religions has some degree of mysogyny.

 

That's a more likely theory. The people of the early church were either poor people or wealthy matrons. In Romany society, even wealthy women were entirely subordinate and inferior, but in the church they would be very highly regarded by people if they supported it with their resources. Paul is constantly giving "shout-outs" to people in his letters; note how many are women.

 

1) outright atheism implies a rigid belief system that has the potential for dogmatism;
While I have to tolerate that people insist on calling themselves agnostic, I always find myself having to correct this line of reasoning. Atheism and agnosticism are NOT on the same spectrum. As such, one can be an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic theist. That's my reason for loathing the word agnostic. "I'm agnostic." "Agnostic what?" Do you think there might be something out there? Agnostic theist. Might there be something out there, BUT you see no reason to believe there is presently? Atheist. Note I didn't say agnostic atheist, because that would be redundant. Realistically, agnostic theist is also redundant, but people don't seem to realize that you can be both.

 

If you think it's possible, but you don't believe, then you're an atheist, plain and simple. That's all you need. If however, you believe that there aren't/cannot be any gods, then you're also an atheist, but something else also, which doesn't have a word yet. It goes by the term "strong atheism" currently, but because all that's required is that you DON'T believe anything with regard to the existence of god, I think that's inaccurate. It's atheism "Plus" something else. I should coin a term for it.

 

For further clarification, Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s), meaning you don't believe anything about god(s), and this is in lieu of proof either way, which is the position agnostics hold, but believe atheism does not. It's a NEGATIVE assertion, whereas "strong atheism" (I hate this term too), the type you seem to think can become dogmatic ( I don't necessarily disagree), is a POSITIVE assertion, in that you believe something about god(s), namely that there aren't/can't be any.

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I believe in ?

 

All hail ?

 

Bend the knee before ?

 

Acknowledge the universality of ?

 

All is ? and ? is all

 

We are all ? in the ?

 

? is the only thing we can be certain of

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