Belief Is Not A Choice.

[Asimov]

So we're all part of one big cosmic snowflake. I can't argue against that.

 

Well, as a determinist, I do believe in random events like quantum events that are uncaused contingencies. What I don't believe in is free will.

 

So do I correctly interpret that to mean that when Billy Graham says that he believes in god (assuming sincerity for argument sake) that you would say that BG does not have a choice in his faith and that he is just being what the great cosmic snowflake (natural universe) has made happen.

 

I would say that BG has a choice in believing, it's just not an action free from external influences. His beliefs are determined contingently by a number of factors. He doesn't necessarily HAVE to believe (fatalism).

 

One non-fundie sister of mine says that belief in god is natural for her and that she was happiest as a child when she believed in god. This to her is her natural state. For me, attheism seems to me like a more natural state. Is this how you would see it?

 

I would say that some people who believe in God do it for certain reasons that are comfortable for them. I don't see how one could accept belief in God because they are happier...it would be like me believing that my mother didn't die because I am happier.

If so, why would you try to convert or convince a fundie otherwise?

 

Because it's an irrational belief. I try to tell people about what I believe and why I believe it and tell them why they are wrong for the reasons they believe based on reality, logic and rationality. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be atheists...it's just that they hold their belief irrationally.

 

And maybe my natural state is argumentation and converting people.

[Mongo]

It is strange. People who otherwise have no religious tendancy will suddenly send their kids to church saying, "You have to believe something".

 

As much as I disagree with this statement and normally reply, "Why?" or "No you don't", I find myself facinated with the very assumption.

 

I think it plays into this discussion where the pastor says you must choose what you believe and where some people say you need some sort of religion because you must believe "something" as if to say... "Everybody has religion, you must pick one."

 

I think people do think that way.

 

In a sense, when I started to believe in Christianity, I accepted the whole hog (in principal) even if I didn't understand all the detail that I would later rue.

 

Does one know all the detail of the Masons or Royal Order of Waterbullalos before they take membership and pursue the brotherhood? No.

 

However, prior to joining, there must be a belief that the organization does not violate your mental or emotional precepts.

 

The difference that the minister did not highlight was that choosing a religion is very much a matter of human interaction with a group of people and as such is subject to complicated and messy assumptions that we may one day regret.

 

Adopting a particular discrete belief (point of view) to me is something one is compelled to do based on evidence.

 

Mongo

[Mongo]

OK...

 

So this white supremist on Dr. Phil today said, "I was racist because I chose not to educate myself about black people.

 

Interesting huh?

 

Mongo