Isaiah 13...christians Are You Up For It?

[Jubilant]

I have not entered into a debate for a long time but today, an end timer knocked on my door to spread the message of doom and gloom. Very firmly, I declined his brochure but on the front was "The End Times Are Near' and it is for that reason that I'd like to ask Christians inparticular if they are up for the following considering the "end times" . 1 An oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:

 

Isaiah 13

9 See, the day of the LORD is coming

—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—

to make the land desolate

and destroy the sinners within it.

 

Bolded so that we know what the "day of the lord is"

 

10 The stars of heaven and their constellations

will not show their light.

The rising sun will be darkened

and the moon will not give its light.

 

11 I will punish the world for its evil,

the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty

and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

 

Yep, still talking about the end.

12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold,

more rare than the gold of Ophir.

 

13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;

and the earth will shake from its place

at the wrath of the LORD Almighty,

in the day of his burning anger.

 

14 Like a hunted gazelle,

like sheep without a shepherd,

each will return to his own people,

each will flee to his native land.

 

15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;

all who are caught will fall by the sword.

 

And who will be the wielder's of these swords?

 

16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;

their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

 

Who is going to dash innocent babies? The Angels? Who is going to rape the women? The Angels? No, we know that the sword bearers and murderers and rapist being referred to are YHWH believers. Christian men, will you like Al Queda, do those horrid things in the name of your God?

[Lycorth]

Nice one, Jubilant. Of course, few Xians would have the balls to do any of that, since deep down, few Xians are anything like the monster they worship

[Kurari]

I saw this presented once a very long time ago in a forum, and just about everyone said that if YHWH for certain commanded it...yes, they would. They would gladly dash infants, rape women, and kill unbelievers without mercy.

 

 

Course I think everybody might have an "Oh shit, God's really not a nice guy" moment, but they wouldn't argue.

[InspectoGeneral]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant. You just can't unravel this level of confusion.

[Asimov]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant. You just can't unravel this level of confusion.

 

Still waiting for a debate topic, there, IG.

[InspectoGeneral]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant. You just can't unravel this level of confusion.

 

Still waiting for a debate topic, there, IG.

 

 

Have you had any debates?

[Asimov]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant. You just can't unravel this level of confusion.

 

Still waiting for a debate topic, there, IG.

 

 

Have you had any debates?

 

I've had many, but I'm interested in finding out if you're wanting to engage in one.

[InspectoGeneral]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant. You just can't unravel this level of confusion.

 

Still waiting for a debate topic, there, IG.

 

 

Have you had any debates?

 

I've had many, but I'm interested in finding out if you're wanting to engage in one.

 

Are there any posted here for me to look at?

[Asimov]

Are there any posted here for me to look at?

 

None that I can think of. Why?

[InspectoGeneral]

Are there any posted here for me to look at?

 

None that I can think of. Why?

 

 

None? Wow. Why is that?

[Asimov]

Are there any posted here for me to look at?

 

None that I can think of. Why?

 

 

None? Wow. Why is that?

 

Because my debates are generally informal, and there haven't been many theists willing to take up the challenge, despite the broad range of topics and openness to discuss.

[Jubilant]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant.

 

 

Please tell me where the misunderstanding is. Considering that if the bible were true, God ordered the Israelites to kill children without mercy as well as men and women, how is this particular scripture misunderstood?

 

You just can't unravel this level of confusion.

 

Why don't you try?

 

Here is another part of the same Chapter

 

Isaiah 13

17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,

who do not care for silver

and have no delight in gold.

 

18 Their bows will strike down the young men;

they will have no mercy on infants

nor will they look with compassion on children.

 

This scripture says "I" meaning God, will stir up the Medes against them and then the same Medes will strike down young men; have no mercy on infants, nor will they look with compassions on children.

 

So now we know that a loving God is going to do this...TO INFANTS and CHILDREN...that is sick. Abortion illegal, infantcide legal? Murder of children legal? Why? Why can't god scoop them up and take them to heaven during the whole ordeal?

[Open_Minded]

Jubilant.... YOU GO GIRL......

[Lycorth]

Can't deal with the fact that your "holy" book has your god depicted as a bloodthirsty savage, IG?

 

Fluffy-bunny

[Jun]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant.

 

Ok. Can you explain these contradictions from your bible then Oh Knowledgable One?

 

Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with his works

Gen 6:6 God is dissatisfied with his works.

 

2 Chron 7:12,16 God dwells in chosen temples

Acts 7:48 God dwells not in temples

 

Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30 God is seen and heard

John 1:18/ John 5:37 God is invisible and cannot be heard

 

Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25 God is just and impartial

Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 God is unjust and partial

 

Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25 God is the author of evil

1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13 God is not the author of evil

 

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5 Christ is equal with God

John 14:28/ Matt 24:36 Christ is not equal with God

 

Ex 20:5 Children are punished for the sins of the parents

Ezek 18:20 Children are not punished for the sins of the parents

 

Can you explain these? There are thousands more in your "holy book." Can you see how there would be "misunderstandings?"

 

How about this one to end this post -

 

Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2 Man is justified by faith alone

James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13 Man is not justified by faith alone

 

Seems there is some confusion over "Gods word" wouldn't you say?

[Jun]

Also from Isaiah 13 -

 

It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

 

But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

 

And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Satyrs? How come "God" is talking of Greek mythological creatures? Satyrs were the companions of the Greek god Pan, the guy that the Christians copied Satan from. Does this suggest that the Christians also believed in Pan and Satyrs? Or is it evidence that the bible is just a concoction from Greek/Roman Pagan beliefs?

 

And Dragons? Er, aren't they mythological beasts too?

 

The bible just gets cooler and cooler. Satyrs, angels, dragons, Satan, a water-walking half-human god, unicorns, big boats that fit all the earths animals, trumpets that can blow down walls, a "God" that can't decide if he is good or evil. Wow, who needs Lord of the Rings? All it needs is a group of followers to spread the story and maybe they can get people to believe it as real - hey wait a minute.....................

[Trancelation]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant.

 

Ok. Can you explain these contradictions from your bible then Oh Knowledgable One?

 

Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with his works

Gen 6:6 God is dissatisfied with his works.

 

2 Chron 7:12,16 God dwells in chosen temples

Acts 7:48 God dwells not in temples

 

Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30 God is seen and heard

John 1:18/ John 5:37 God is invisible and cannot be heard

 

Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25 God is just and impartial

Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 God is unjust and partial

 

Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25 God is the author of evil

1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13 God is not the author of evil

 

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5 Christ is equal with God

John 14:28/ Matt 24:36 Christ is not equal with God

 

Ex 20:5 Children are punished for the sins of the parents

Ezek 18:20 Children are not punished for the sins of the parents

 

Can you explain these? There are thousands more in your "holy book." Can you see how there would be "misunderstandings?"

 

How about this one to end this post -

 

Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2 Man is justified by faith alone

James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13 Man is not justified by faith alone

 

Seems there is some confusion over "Gods word" wouldn't you say?

There is only one of these that has ever been succesfully refuted that I have seen. That would be the first one, the Genesis contradiction about satisfaction with works. It would make sense if God was dissatisifed if His own creations (which He made from the start 'in our image') to screw up, screwed up, thus rendering His satisfaction . . . to less than satisfactory.

 

Poor God. He can't get no satisfaction.

 

I posted the full version of this list on a bodybuilding forum, and lo, only the first one was refuted. And I agree. That DOES make sense.

 

So what?

 

You cannot refute and explain and apply apologetics to all of the Bible's contradictions. The vast majority of them cannot be reconciled. And even if they could, that does not make the Bible true. Lacking contradiction does not make a thing true. I have posted similar lists of Biblical contradictions thousands of times, and they have never been refuted, not by Tektonics Ministry, not by Answers In Genesis, not by ANYONE.

 

One of my all-time favorite Biblical contradictions (most people have favorite verses; I have favorite contradictions) is the two accounts of creation.

 

Genesis 1:25-27

(Humans were created after the other animals.)

 

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

 

&

 

Genesis 1:27

(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

VS.

 

Genesis 2:18-19

(Humans were created before the other animals.)

 

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

Genesis 2:18-22

(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)

 

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

 

There is no reconciliation of these two accounts. They are too different. Many Christians claim we should look at the Bible literally, meaning to take every verse as it was meant to be read (metaphor, symbolism, etc.), while still accepting they are literally true. Of course, such a thing CAN be done. A thing can be symbolically true while retaining literal truth. But not unless they are telling the same story.

 

That's the case here. Which account is it? Which account literally happened? See, if we apply the accounts as man attempting to understand the mystery of the divine, you run the risk of being tolerant and accepting of OTHER creation accounts, ones that do not swear fealty to the Christian God. And if tolerance and acceptance is allowed, one cannot claim individual and absolute truth, now, can they?

 

No, they cannot. For Christianity, it is their way or the highway, with them or agin' them. Heaven or Hell. Your choice. All you have to do is believe (whether you're capable of that or not) that the right One True Christian out of many One True Christians has the One True Story .

[Jubilant]

Also from Isaiah 13 -

 

It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

 

But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

 

And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Satyrs? How come "God" is talking of Greek mythological creatures? Satyrs were the companions of the Greek god Pan, the guy that the Christians copied Satan from. Does this suggest that the Christians also believed in Pan and Satyrs? Or is it evidence that the bible is just a concoction from Greek/Roman Pagan beliefs?

 

And Dragons? Er, aren't they mythological beasts too?

 

 

JUN...THANKS!!! I wasn't using the all perfect KJV BIble version but the NIV or I'd never have caught that. Seems the NIVers made sure that they left out the mythical beings. I do believe that Inspecto is a KJV only type of Christian, no?

 

Here is the NIV version...

Isaiah 13

20 She will never be inhabited

or lived in through all generations;

no Arab will pitch his tent there,

no shepherd will rest his flocks there.

 

21 But desert creatures will lie there,

jackals will fill her houses;

there the owls will dwell,

and there the wild goats will leap about.

 

22 Hyenas will howl in her strongholds,

jackals in her luxurious palaces.

Her time is at hand,

and her days will not be prolonged.

 

 

Here is the Strong's Lexicon definition of Satyr:

 

2) he-goat, buck

 

a) as sacrificial animal

 

satyr, may refer to a demon possessed goat like the swine of Gadara

 

Alrighty then. So the NIV authors took the man-goat portion away and just call it a goat. Now, if Dragons are actually Dinosaurs as Kent Hovind pretty much insists then doesn't this null the passage as dinosaurs are EXTINCT????

[Toxic]

Nice one, Jubilant. Of course, few Xians would have the balls to do any of that, since deep down, few Xians are anything like the monster they worship

 

I dunno about that, I wouldn't put it past some of the Xtians I know!

[InspectoGeneral]

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant.

 

Ok. Can you explain these contradictions from your bible then Oh Knowledgable One?

 

Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with his works

Gen 6:6 God is dissatisfied with his works.

 

2 Chron 7:12,16 God dwells in chosen temples

Acts 7:48 God dwells not in temples

 

Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30 God is seen and heard

John 1:18/ John 5:37 God is invisible and cannot be heard

 

Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25 God is just and impartial

Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 God is unjust and partial

 

Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25 God is the author of evil

1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13 God is not the author of evil

 

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5 Christ is equal with God

John 14:28/ Matt 24:36 Christ is not equal with God

 

Ex 20:5 Children are punished for the sins of the parents

Ezek 18:20 Children are not punished for the sins of the parents

 

Can you explain these? There are thousands more in your "holy book." Can you see how there would be "misunderstandings?"

 

How about this one to end this post -

 

Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2 Man is justified by faith alone

James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13 Man is not justified by faith alone

 

Seems there is some confusion over "Gods word" wouldn't you say?

 

 

I would say that there is a ton of confusion. It's rampant here. Your misunderstanding of the Bible doesn't condtitute an error, it simply illustrates your misunderstanding.

 

I think your misunderstanding and confusion is much deeper than I or anyone else could fix.

 

The fact that you misunderstand the Bible shoes that it is true. In fact, the Bible declares that you will not understand it. Showing once again that the Bible is true.

 

BTW- For me to try and explain the Bible to you, when the Bible itself declares that you cannot understand it would show that I didn't believe the Bible. And to think, after all these years, the Bible is always true. Your misunderstanding is a testimony to the truth of the Bible.

 

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant.

 

Ok. Can you explain these contradictions from your bible then Oh Knowledgable One?

 

Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with his works

Gen 6:6 God is dissatisfied with his works.

 

2 Chron 7:12,16 God dwells in chosen temples

Acts 7:48 God dwells not in temples

 

Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30 God is seen and heard

John 1:18/ John 5:37 God is invisible and cannot be heard

 

Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25 God is just and impartial

Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 God is unjust and partial

 

Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25 God is the author of evil

1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13 God is not the author of evil

 

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5 Christ is equal with God

John 14:28/ Matt 24:36 Christ is not equal with God

 

Ex 20:5 Children are punished for the sins of the parents

Ezek 18:20 Children are not punished for the sins of the parents

 

Can you explain these? There are thousands more in your "holy book." Can you see how there would be "misunderstandings?"

 

How about this one to end this post -

 

Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2 Man is justified by faith alone

James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13 Man is not justified by faith alone

 

Seems there is some confusion over "Gods word" wouldn't you say?

 

 

I would say that there is a ton of confusion. It's rampant here. Your misunderstanding of the Bible doesn't condtitute an error, it simply illustrates your misunderstanding.

 

I think your misunderstanding and confusion is much deeper than I or anyone else could fix.

 

The fact that you misunderstand the Bible shows that it is true. In fact, the Bible declares that you will not understand it. Showing once again that the Bible is true.

 

BTW- For me to try and explain the Bible to you, when the Bible itself declares that you cannot understand it would show that I didn't believe the Bible. And to think, after all these years, the Bible is always true. Your misunderstanding is a testimony to the truth of the Bible.

 

The misunderstanding of the Bible here is rampant.

 

Ok. Can you explain these contradictions from your bible then Oh Knowledgable One?

 

Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with his works

Gen 6:6 God is dissatisfied with his works.

 

2 Chron 7:12,16 God dwells in chosen temples

Acts 7:48 God dwells not in temples

 

Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30 God is seen and heard

John 1:18/ John 5:37 God is invisible and cannot be heard

 

Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25 God is just and impartial

Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 God is unjust and partial

 

Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25 God is the author of evil

1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13 God is not the author of evil

 

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5 Christ is equal with God

John 14:28/ Matt 24:36 Christ is not equal with God

 

Ex 20:5 Children are punished for the sins of the parents

Ezek 18:20 Children are not punished for the sins of the parents

 

Can you explain these? There are thousands more in your "holy book." Can you see how there would be "misunderstandings?"

 

How about this one to end this post -

 

Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2 Man is justified by faith alone

James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13 Man is not justified by faith alone

 

Seems there is some confusion over "Gods word" wouldn't you say?

There is only one of these that has ever been succesfully refuted that I have seen. That would be the first one, the Genesis contradiction about satisfaction with works. It would make sense if God was dissatisifed if His own creations (which He made from the start 'in our image') to screw up, screwed up, thus rendering His satisfaction . . . to less than satisfactory.

 

Poor God. He can't get no satisfaction.

 

I posted the full version of this list on a bodybuilding forum, and lo, only the first one was refuted. And I agree. That DOES make sense.

 

So what?

 

You cannot refute and explain and apply apologetics to all of the Bible's contradictions. The vast majority of them cannot be reconciled. And even if they could, that does not make the Bible true. Lacking contradiction does not make a thing true. I have posted similar lists of Biblical contradictions thousands of times, and they have never been refuted, not by Tektonics Ministry, not by Answers In Genesis, not by ANYONE.

 

One of my all-time favorite Biblical contradictions (most people have favorite verses; I have favorite contradictions) is the two accounts of creation.

 

Genesis 1:25-27

(Humans were created after the other animals.)

 

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

 

&

 

Genesis 1:27

(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

VS.

 

Genesis 2:18-19

(Humans were created before the other animals.)

 

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

Genesis 2:18-22

(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)

 

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

 

There is no reconciliation of these two accounts. They are too different. Many Christians claim we should look at the Bible literally, meaning to take every verse as it was meant to be read (metaphor, symbolism, etc.), while still accepting they are literally true. Of course, such a thing CAN be done. A thing can be symbolically true while retaining literal truth. But not unless they are telling the same story.

 

That's the case here. Which account is it? Which account literally happened? See, if we apply the accounts as man attempting to understand the mystery of the divine, you run the risk of being tolerant and accepting of OTHER creation accounts, ones that do not swear fealty to the Christian God. And if tolerance and acceptance is allowed, one cannot claim individual and absolute truth, now, can they?

 

No, they cannot. For Christianity, it is their way or the highway, with them or agin' them. Heaven or Hell. Your choice. All you have to do is believe (whether you're capable of that or not) that the right One True Christian out of many One True Christians has the One True Story .

 

I can see that you are confused as well.

[Jubilant]

May I respectfully ask that we stick with Isaiah 13 in this thread an perhaps start another one for other contradictions?

 

Inspecto...I would like for you to tell me how it is that the chapter in question is being misunderstood.

[Jubilant]

BTW- For me to try and explain the Bible to you, when the Bible itself declares that you cannot understand it would show that I didn't believe the Bible. And to think, after all these years, the Bible is always true. Your misunderstanding is a testimony to the truth of the Bible.

 

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." I'm not a rocket scientist but I think that means "Don't screw around on your spouse. And if you aren't married, don't screw another persons spouse." What that particular commandment leaves out is the why. If one commits adultery they are damaging the person who loves them as well as their family. Committing adultery causes pain for others.

 

Have I misunderstood that? If so, please tell me where I've gone wrong.

 

Keep in mind that YOU have just made the claim "the bible declares that you (unbelievers) CANNOT understand it".

[Jun]

May I respectfully ask that we stick with Isaiah 13 in this thread an perhaps start another one for other contradictions?

 

Yes, indeed, so sorry. I got carried away.

 

For me to try and explain the Bible to you, when the Bible itself declares that you cannot understand it would show that I didn't believe the Bible.

 

Where does it state in the bible that the bible itself cannot be understood? Which chapter and verse and written by whom? Why would that be? So what is the point of the bible then if it cannot be understood? Doesn't "God" demand that everyone believe in him and praise him? How can they if they can't understand the very book which records and passes on his teachings?

 

Let me get this straight. The bible is "the true word of God." It is recorded by the followers for followers (and potential followers) to read and practice. But, it cannot be understood. Huh?!

 

If you try to explain the bible to us it would show that you didn't believe? What the?

 

Or, are you saying that only "true believers" can understand it? Like only "true believers" can see fairies, or UFO's, or ghosts, or speak to dead people....................................

 

I think your misunderstanding and confusion is much deeper than I or anyone else could fix.

 

Bullshit, that's a convenient way out of the argument isn't it? "Oh you are so confused, I can't help you. I can offer no way to help clear up these misunderstandings, it's just that you are too confused" In other words you can't refute what we have provided so you blame our confusion. How convenient!

 

In fact, the Bible declares that you will not understand it. Showing once again that the Bible is true.

 

If I write a book which makes absurd claims, and declare that you will not understand it unless you truly believe in it, how does that make it "true?"

[white_raven23]

Where does it state in the bible that the bible itself cannot be understood? Which chapter and verse and written by whom? Why would that be? So what is the point of the bible then if it cannot be understood? Doesn't "God" demand that everyone believe in him and praise him? How can they if they can't understand the very book which records and passes on his teachings?

 

 

Our "friend" IG is clasping tightly to 1 Corinthians chapter 2, with particular focus on verse 14.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...&version=50

 

1 Corinthians is written by Paul. Which makes IG a Paul-ian not a Christian. Because as we all know, Paul had no direct experience with the supposed events surrounding jesus or his direct followers, and at best was just a mysoginist who had a seizure and decided to justify becoming a social authority based on the experience of having his senses go haywire. His teachings are in no way based on the example given by jesus in the gospel writings. Evidence suggests Paul didn't even know about the gospel writings when he started spouting his bullcrap.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible4.html

The letters to the Romans, the Corinthians, the Galatians, the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, the Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus and Philemon are widely assumed to have come from the hand of the apostle Paul and are called the Pauline epistles for that reason.

 

E. P. Sanders says it's fairly clear Paul was unaware of the four Gospels, and the authors of the Gospels didn't know of Paul's letters.

 

 

So IG isn't even a christian.

[Japedo]

 

I would say that there is a ton of confusion. It's rampant here. Your misunderstanding of the Bible doesn't condtitute an error, it simply illustrates your misunderstanding.

 

I think your misunderstanding and confusion is much deeper than I or anyone else could fix.

 

The fact that you misunderstand the Bible shoes that it is true. In fact, the Bible declares that you will not understand it. Showing once again that the Bible is true.

 

BTW- For me to try and explain the Bible to you, when the Bible itself declares that you cannot understand it would show that I didn't believe the Bible. And to think, after all these years, the Bible is always true. Your misunderstanding is a testimony to the truth of the Bible.

 

 

 

------------------------------ < snip to save time and room >

I can see that you are confused as well.

 

 

well well well.. what do we have here. What a convenient "OUT" you xtoons have painted for yourselves. You reap what you sow IG so answer me this. Am I to understand that Xtins are the only one's that Understand the Buy-bull? you have yourself in quite the conundrum.. foot in mouth disease or what have you.

 

You see, you've painted yourself into the proverbial corner. You answer yes, then all of us who were Self proclaimed Christians doing "his work" and asked Jesus into our lives were duped and he never really came even after much crying and weeping and begging. Also in answering YES you will need to face the entire Human race, pastors and theologians who still have questions and who are still looking for answers that they are not "real" Christians either because they don't understand. Do heretics BUYBULL study I wonder?

 

If you answer NO, then you admit that you tried to use this LAME ASS Excuse as just that, a LAME ASS EXCUSE for you not knowing and not even beginning to be honest with yourself or us for the purpose of debate. Do you claim to know what the verses Jubilant Posted means, and in answering this question I mean does it read something other then what it says, do you claim to know and if so how? And with your answer I'd prefer an " I Swear and oath to GOD on my eternal soul I DO" for me to even begin to buy your answer.

 

You are a coward about your beliefs and all they are built on. You knee jerk with the pussy bullshit that god brings confusion to us on purpose, I'm willing to bet you're horrified at the thought of even justifying this Tali-Born-again mentality. You are required by your god to answer to those lost souls who ask, so answer and stop with the lamest copout I've ever seen you're an embarrassment to your father in heaven that you don't have faith enough to give us straight answers.

 

Yes we are to be raped and our children Murdered as it says or no, we are confused? A simple straight up or down will suffice if you have courage enough to type it that is.