chefranden Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart; 19 who being past feeling gave themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. . . . ehhh, I dunno. This verse does not explicitly say that the BIBLE cannot be understood. After all, the Bible had not been written yet. Nor does this verse explicitly say that Christians that scorn the Bible cannot understand it. After all, IG wasn't talking about non-Christians that scorn the Bible and cannot understand it. Man, oh, man, the things that guy will say to not have to admit he was wrong. Priceless. I still want to see this supposed verse from him. After all, we're talking about a verse that says that those who scorn the Bible - which had not been written at the time the writings that make up the Bible were collected - cannot understand the Bible. This verse is NOT talking about non-Christians, if we are to believe IG. Until he supplies this verse as dictated by his exclusive understanding of the Bible, nothing will suffice. 1 Cor 2: 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: 16"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (NIV) Unfortunately IG can make the leap from these verses to not understanding the bible in spite of the fact the Bible didn't exist in it's present form when these things were written. It follows logically from her/his/its assumptions, namely the bible comes via the Spirit of God; the bible therefore contains "things of God"; the unbeliever has not the Spirit, therefore the unbeliever cannot understand the bible that contains the "the things of God". Of course he/she/it also assumes that he/she/it understands the bible without substantiating the claim. There are many that are Christian (believers) that would question his/her/its understanding. Since it is likely that, given the rigid standard of understanding implied by IG, that he/she/it is an unbeliever as well as we in the eyes of other Christians. IG will insist that it is those other Christians that don't understand, but of course he/she/it has nothing but his arrogance as evidence for actually having the mind of Christ. This is the main reason why it is a waste of bandwidth to trade barbs with her/him/it. All IG can say in return is, "I am too smarter than you" accompanied with much irate foot stomping. But I understand the temptation to try to reason with the blow-hard, because rather few Christians hang out here anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 WHERE IN THE "HOLY BIBLE" DOES IT STATE THAT THE BIBLE ITSELF CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD? WHICH CHAPTER AND VERSE? Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart; 19 who being past feeling gave themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think this guy was saying you have to be JEWISH, not Xian. And he wasn't talking about understanding the modern book called Bible. One of the main messages of the so-called Old Testament, which is repeated over and over in many many ways, is that Jews must stop acting like Gentiles. This included such things as going to the temples of Molech and "consorting" (I love that word) with prostitutes, especially boys, as the Gentiles do. There are many other exhortations not to do things as the Gentiles do, as Paul later WOULD do, to the nth degree, in introducing his Hellenized Judaism to actual Gentiles and calling the whole new thing "Christianity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Eph. 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart; 19 who being past feeling gave themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. OH MY GOD! That is describing IG perfectly. I will now fall down and worship the one and only true myth. Well, you have to admit that the bible was good at identifying people like IG. It speaks to the very people that claim to believe it. It prophesized there would be people like IG. He walks in the vanity of his mind...he has shown his arrogance many times, although through pure innocent ignorance. How hard is his heart? I haven't seen anyone here before that was less caring. Well, maybe Goldy. Why is he here? What purpose? Is it self-fullfilling for him? Does it stroke his ego? Does it appease his vanity? Wow...there were some pretty smart people back then when it came to dealing with human behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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