Brother Jeff Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 What did it for me was realizing how unjust and immoral the hell doctrine really is. If hell exists, then the Christian god is an evil being. But the Christian god is supposed to be a god of love and mercy. Love & mercy + eternal torture does not compute. It is a logical impossibility for that and many other reasons. My thoughts exactly! Amen and "Glory!" and yet sometimes I still worry about Hell Here's a link that may help you get free of your fears: http://www.religionisbullshit.org/end_fear_hell.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrosmith Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 What did it for me was realizing how unjust and immoral the hell doctrine really is. If hell exists, then the Christian god is an evil being. But the Christian god is supposed to be a god of love and mercy. Love & mercy + eternal torture does not compute. It is a logical impossibility for that and many other reasons. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 You can also say that if Gawd really wanted to save everyone, Jebus' death would've wiped out sin and the devil and magically freed everyone in eternal torment, thereby making Hell needless. I think it did just that. Jesus took (figurative language here) the keys to death, hell and the grave. The battle is over. The adversary has yet to lay down his arms (again, figurative language here), but he will. It's only a matter of time. And when it's all over, I trust we'll all be saved by a grace so amazing, so powerful, it's darn-near irrestible. -currentchristian in massachusetts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtdude Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I travelled to India in 1981, saw thousands and thousands of people going about their business completely without the overriding christian dogma and figured that the whole concept of hell was evil. These folks were fine. And why would anyone deserve such a horrific fate? In fact, they seemed generally happy to be WITHOUT my god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 What Convinced You That There Was No Hell? Right about the same time that I came to my senses and realized that any information that I found about hell was contained in the same book that tells about a talking serpent. In short, the bible itself convinced me that there was no hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgX Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I too got the impressions that Heaven was "above" and Hell was "Below". But when you look at the whole logistics of it all, it sure doesn't seem possible. For example, Hell and Heaven are said NOT to be on or in the Earth (I would dispute that as I think I've experienced some of each while living on this planet but for sake of arguement let's say that's beside the point). So heaven and hell would have to be externally outside the earth. 1. Space doesn't have a top or bottom, or a above or below. In fact, as I type this, if this was true the Earth could be hanging upside-down for all I know. But I'm not sitting on the ceiling so I'm not too worried about the positioning of the Earth. 2. Other dimentions don't have a top or bottom, so there is no above or below. 3. There are cycles and frequencies that are higher frequencies and lower frequencies, which may be thought of as dimentions I guess. But then it would just mean that the energy forces in "heaven" would vibrate at a higher frequency than those in "hell". But why would a higher frequency be more desireable than a lower one if an entity is passing through dimentions? Would it indicate that the frequency of the entity would have to match it in some way? Maybe a guilty or "evil" or angry conscience is at a lower frequency than a content, happy consience? But back in the days of the Bible when people still were not all that smart in the sciences, how would they have known? And if they DID know why didn't they just come right out and say it, educate the public instead of assuming everyone is too stupid to understand? Why the laziness to help people understand and learn? I think that if someone grills the idea of hell or doubt in your mind, then at the time of your death, if you realize you will no longer exist in the current realm you're in, than think you deserve hell, as mentioned by one other, you'll live there. It'll be like that. But if it becomes too intollerable, maybe I think the conscienceness would then create a way "out" or a redemption of some kind. Though I have seen people still alive self-hate themselves until their time of death so I wouldn't be surprised if they stick it to themselves forever or for a very long time. These entities never evolve. They get "stuck". But maybe eventually as with everything, everything moves and thus nothing stays in one place for very long. Who knows... We have no evidence of any of these theories, but can only guess based on our own observations of what we find of the earth and surrounding space, and then to hypotesize that everything is like that. Maybe not. Just keep your thoughts safe yourself and don't let others trick you into believing things. Realize that for every person that believes you'll go to hell, there's those that probably think you're a good person and you'll be in heaven. So which one is right? THEY themselves don't even know. The only way I can see controlling what one is going to experience after death, at least the best chance I can see right now, is not to let anyone in this life try to make you believe something you find horrific or uncomfortable, and to be truely honestly content with and believe you'll be OK when your time comes and that nothing horrible will happen to you, no matter what others say. I think it's better than a highly- debated myth or suppositions brought down by generations of those who did not seek the answers, but merely believed what they were told in order to not be ostricated by friends, family, and the rest of the society the lived in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lady Heather Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 According to the standards that would have to be met to avoid HELL, everyone would end up there anyway. You would have to be born again and forgiven of all that you have thought, said, and done...THEN die immediately afterwards, before you've had a chance to think a dirty thought or sin again...or need to be forgiven again. Rediculous. What about animals, infants, and other innocent life forms who do not have the mental capacity to do ABCXYZ in order to make it into heaven? Not fair is it? So even if the concept of a heaven and hell were true, I wouldn't want anything to do with whatever god purports to operate that way. Not very logical for my Rabbit not to make it into heaven is it? Likewise, there is no hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kal-el Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 For a parrotkeet, much less a human being to suffer eternal mental and physical torture is way overboard than anything anybody deserves. It's a bit like handing out a life sentence of prison to a kid stealing a cany bar, and what's worse is you know he will steal it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstInTheDance Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Now I don't think about it anymore, I think because so much of the rest of the Bible is totally ridiculous there's no reason to even waste time thinking about "what if" hell is real. Trust me if I thought there was even a statistically small chance the place was real I would still be a Christian. But lets face it there is absolutely zero evdience that such a place exists, outside of a book that also claims that donkeys can talk, sticks can turn into snakes, horses can fly, and zombies come back to life after being dead for 3+ days. If Jesus happens to show up in my living room for a chat and tells me point blank that hell is real then maybe i'll reconsider, but until that time hell is no more real than the Land of Oz as far as I am concerned. What Mike said. For many years the fear of hell haunted me, but I finally got over it when it sunk in how fanciful the Bible is. I DON'T believe in talking donkeys, flying horses, zombies, etc. Also, the Bible is so full of mistakes, I don't know how anyone can claim it is infallible with a straight face. I think the best cure for Christianity is actually READING the Bible with fresh eyes and a rational mind. Don't allow the mental substitution to take place (ie. The Bible says this, but what it REALLY means is. . .). Read what it REALLY says, without the spin the preachers put on it to make it seem acceptable to our more modern mentalities. After being out of the mindset, then going back and reading it, I was struck by how barbaric and Bronze Age and strange it all seems to me. It is now VERY obvious to me that the idea of Hell is nothing more than a scare tactic. Another argument I'd like to make is this: People think they are very important, but on a Universal scale we are really very tiny and insignificant. Someone posted a link here a few years ago that had pictures of planet Earth at various distances. Finally, the camera was too far away to even see the PLANET. The Universe is so large, even our PLANET is insignificant. Now, if there is some Creator of Everything, doesn't it seem rather silly that this being is so concerned with what you BELIEVE (without evidence, of course) that it wants to torture you forever??? I think that would sort of be like me wanting to torture sand fleas in Africa for all of eternity for not believing I exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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