Christianity Keeps You From Having To Think

[Amethyst]

I was watching the Babylon 5 ep Wheel of Fire, and there is a very interesting point made by G'Kar. It is far easier to make someone into a religious figure which symbolizes ideal qualities than to try and bring out those qualities in yourself. It keeps you from having to think.

 

Christianity is the same. People would rather idolize and worship the mythical figure of Jesus which symbolizes what they think is good, rather than try to improve themselves. It's far easier to sit down and say a prayer rather than actually do something to help yourself or someone else. It's also far easier to say platitudes to people going through tough situations than it is to actually help them. It's really laziness if you think about it.

[StewartP]

It's true!

 

As a fundie christian I knew all the answers to all the question. Everything was black or white. Moral absolutes.

 

Even if I had never experienced the situation I knew the answers. Abortion? wrong, in all circumstances. Homosexuality? sinful.

Often backed up with chapter and verse.

 

There is very little thinking involved. Only the parroting of the liturgies.

[sithprincess]

It's true!

 

As a fundie christian I knew all the answers to all the question. Everything was black or white. Moral absolutes.

 

Even if I had never experienced the situation I knew the answers. Abortion? wrong, in all circumstances. Homosexuality? sinful.

Often backed up with chapter and verse.

 

There is very little thinking involved. Only the parroting of the liturgies.

 

I totally agree with this! You give 'em the playbook, and they follow it blindly. No thinking necessary. Hmmm...sounds like a good slogan: "The Bible: No Thinking Required"

[Kurari]

I said something to this effect in the Lion's Den in the "Chrisitans have no real morals" thread.

 

Here

And Here

 

Christianity seems easy enough. Accept Jesus as your lord and saviour, and follow the rules. That's it. Of course, it's not it, because it's so darned confusing. Many of the rules don't make sense.

[riverbank]

Quote:

 

People would rather idolize and worship the mythical figure of Jesus which symbolizes what they think is good, rather than try to improve themselves.

 

Yeah that's so true. It's all about relying on Jesus and how good he is when you are a christian, rather than looking within yourselves. It was deeply engrained within me that I was hopeless and could do nothing without Jesus' help, and it took a little while after I deconverted for me to realize that I have the ability to improve myself.

[StewartP]

Quote:

 

People would rather idolize and worship the mythical figure of Jesus which symbolizes what they think is good, rather than try to improve themselves.

 

Yeah that's so true. It's all about relying on Jesus and how good he is when you are a christian, rather than looking within yourselves. It was deeply engrained within me that I was hopeless and could do nothing without Jesus' help, and it took a little while after I deconverted for me to realize that I have the ability to improve myself.

 

My father's conversion to Christianity co-incided with his retirement and his alcoholism.

 

It's like Christianity robbed him of his ability to think rationally and be in control of his life. The alcoholism means he lies and connives, which goes directly against everything he says as a Christian. At his AA meetings it is further reinforced that he cannot escape his alcohilism without the help of God. Of course every time he falls of the wagon I'm sure he blames himself for being a miserable sinner and not God for not helping him out.

I love him dearly, but between the onset of old age, the booze and Jeeyazuz, he's not the man I knew.

 

(but then neither am I )

[Everglaze]

Yes, that's what makes Christians idiotic. They're irresponsible and only seek comfort in their imaginary authority figure. Too bad reality doesn't work that way and chances are that the worst can happen to anyone, including Christians who will then make the excuse that they're unworthy, blah blah blah and try to act humble. What a bunch of crazy people. Christianity damages lives and drains the soul. While people are working hard to get their degrees and trying to work out job predicaments, Christians are sitting around praying that everything will be fine and that the most important thing in life is "God." "God" doesn't provide homes, doesn't provide salary, doesn't provide a family. It's all done by the person and supporting parties. There is no addition to that. If only they excluded the idea of "God," they might actually be normal people.

[chefranden]

Excuse my French, but Bullshit.

 

I know this is Rants and the standard of thinking is somewhat lax, but phooey on this generalization non-sense!

 

I thought when I was a Christian and so did you guys. Everyone has blind spots based on assumptions that ain't as close to reality as we'd like to believe. You may want to thank the Great Punkin that you now have one less delusion then you did. Darwin only knows how many delusions are left, but the idea that being Christian makes you an idiot must be one of them. Being human makes us all idiots in one way or another.

 

My favorite Jesus teaching: Get the log out of your own eye before worrying about what is in that other guy's eye.

[neverclear5]

It's true!

 

As a fundie christian I knew all the answers to all the question. Everything was black or white. Moral absolutes.

 

Even if I had never experienced the situation I knew the answers. Abortion? wrong, in all circumstances. Homosexuality? sinful.

Often backed up with chapter and verse.

 

There is very little thinking involved. Only the parroting of the liturgies.

 

I totally agree with this! You give 'em the playbook, and they follow it blindly. No thinking necessary. Hmmm...sounds like a good slogan: "The Bible: No Thinking Required"

 

 

it wouldn't be as bad if they actually used the bible. The problem is they use a moral playbook given to them by someone else who says its based on the bible and they don't check up on it.

For instance, not coveting (being jealous of) other people's things is in the ten comandments, being gay is not. stealing (from a car to a sweet) is in there, sex before marriage is not. In fact sex before marriage isn't in the bible at all!

[Amethyst]

Excuse my French, but Bullshit.

 

I know this is Rants and the standard of thinking is somewhat lax, but phooey on this generalization non-sense!

 

I thought when I was a Christian and so did you guys. Everyone has blind spots based on assumptions that ain't as close to reality as we'd like to believe. You may want to thank the Great Punkin that you now have one less delusion then you did. Darwin only knows how many delusions are left, but the idea that being Christian makes you an idiot must be one of them. Being human makes us all idiots in one way or another.

 

My favorite Jesus teaching: Get the log out of your own eye before worrying about what is in that other guy's eye.

 

Yeah, well, I thought too. That is why I am no longer a Christian!

 

Go back and read the original post again, Chef. I think you are taking it too personally. Also, you're only going by the topic title and missing the point of the post.

 

The point I am making is NOT that all Christians are idiots, but that is that it is easier to worship and idolize something than to try and improve yourself and the world around you.

 

How many Christians do you know who actually try to improve themselves, who actually go out and exercise instead of praying "god make me thin?"

 

How many Christians do you know who actually volunteer and donate their clothes instead of praying in church to "please stop the poverty?"

 

Some do, but not many. And if every Christian actually used his or her brain, they would realize that they don't need a magical sky god to improve the world for them. They have to work to improve it themselves.

[weary traveler]

 

it wouldn't be as bad if they actually used the bible. The problem is they use a moral playbook given to them by someone else who says its based on the bible and they don't check up on it.

For instance, not coveting (being jealous of) other people's things is in the ten comandments, being gay is not. stealing (from a car to a sweet) is in there, sex before marriage is not. In fact sex before marriage isn't in the bible at all!

 

 

In my ten years of having been a fundie baptist, I would have to agree with you. I would constantly encounter other congregants who liked to spout "doctrine" and morality without really being able to cite the bible that well. I tried to get a teaching position but was always denied because one of my biggest "beefs" was that we weren't able to give unified scriptural answers to many big questions (like you mentioned) to those asking them. I have met MANY biblically illiterate christians and way too many didn't feel it was necessary to read all of the bible because we only needed "faith". Well I don't know about anyone else, but I like to know just what it is I am putting faith in. My fervent desire for answers and clarity of thought led me out of the religion.

[chefranden]

Excuse my French, but Bullshit.

 

I know this is Rants and the standard of thinking is somewhat lax, but phooey on this generalization non-sense!

 

I thought when I was a Christian and so did you guys. Everyone has blind spots based on assumptions that ain't as close to reality as we'd like to believe. You may want to thank the Great Punkin that you now have one less delusion then you did. Darwin only knows how many delusions are left, but the idea that being Christian makes you an idiot must be one of them. Being human makes us all idiots in one way or another.

 

My favorite Jesus teaching: Get the log out of your own eye before worrying about what is in that other guy's eye.

 

Yeah, well, I thought too. That is why I am no longer a Christian!

 

Go back and read the original post again, Chef. I think you are taking it too personally. Also, you're only going by the topic title and missing the point of the post.

 

The point I am making is NOT that all Christians are idiots, but that is that it is easier to worship and idolize something than to try and improve yourself and the world around you.

 

How many Christians do you know who actually try to improve themselves, who actually go out and exercise instead of praying "god make me thin?"

 

How many Christians do you know who actually volunteer and donate their clothes instead of praying in church to "please stop the poverty?"

 

Some do, but not many. And if every Christian actually used his or her brain, they would realize that they don't need a magical sky god to improve the world for them. They have to work to improve it themselves.

 

I know Christians that do these things, and I know Christians that don't. Except for my kids and The Bum I don't know any atheists in person. So I suppose I really don't have much to compare them to. However, I suspect that atheists would show simular behavior patterns. If they are lazy or were fat like me they would have other rationalizations than God, but they would still have them. I for example rationalize that it is more fun to read and post on ex-c than to go for a walk.

 

But the point is that christians (small c on purpose) are just people. From my experience as a minister I found that most people aren't really as much into it (religion) as a minister would hope. Even in a fundy church not many of my flock were nuts enough to please me. There are places on everyone's mental maps marked with a vague scribble and a hastily penned "here be dragons", that on other mental maps are well explored. Christianity is one of those places for most christians. Sometimes it is the idea of dragons that keep them out, but mostly it is because they are busy in the west and have no motivation to find out what is in that spot in the east.

[truth]

Yes, and it is sad.. that christians are tought not to think and are told what to believe and then told that what thinking was finding bible verses to co-ordinate sort of to those beliefs... though a lot of those verses were so vague or parables that really any interpretation could be made.. HELLO...

But we were taught not think so the vagueness would not be an issue. Faith... was the all important..I was and have been told this by so many christians that all you have to have to have is wanting to want to have faith and then faith would grow. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Christian parents teach their kids what to think and send them to programs in the church to teach them what to think before they can really think for themselves..and really the only knowlege of other religions is when they teach you about witnessing and defending your faith to the non-believer..... I think I was at least ten years old before I knew that atheists even existed.

 

The church teaches you to submit, and follow authority and to go out and find others to submit to your views.

[Amethyst]

I know Christians that do these things, and I know Christians that don't. Except for my kids and The Bum I don't know any atheists in person. So I suppose I really don't have much to compare them to. However, I suspect that atheists would show simular behavior patterns. If they are lazy or were fat like me they would have other rationalizations than God, but they would still have them. I for example rationalize that it is more fun to read and post on ex-c than to go for a walk.

 

But the point is that christians (small c on purpose) are just people. From my experience as a minister I found that most people aren't really as much into it (religion) as a minister would hope. Even in a fundy church not many of my flock were nuts enough to please me. There are places on everyone's mental maps marked with a vague scribble and a hastily penned "here be dragons", that on other mental maps are well explored. Christianity is one of those places for most christians. Sometimes it is the idea of dragons that keep them out, but mostly it is because they are busy in the west and have no motivation to find out what is in that spot in the east.

 

And that's fine. I was simply comparing something that happened in a Babylon 5 episode with things I have observed in real life that can be equated with it. I wasn't saying that all Christians are morons, even though some of the people who replied said things of that nature. The topic title was a paraphrase from G'Kar's line in the epiosde. It was meant to be tongue in cheek, but also a rant.