mick Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Someone recdently opened me up to a very simple conundrum for Christianity. How is it that God "fogives" ANYONE, IF he takes FULL retribution in the killing of Christ? Serioulsy, the debt is paid (according to Myth) by HIS death, paid in FULL. God cannot claim to FORGIVE us if the debt was PAID. IF I owe 20$ to someone, and someone else GIVES him the 20$ for me, the debt is PAID. I owe nothing, and I have been forgiven NOTHING. WHom I owed, has not forgiven me. He was PAID off! I think this is a profound matter. (especially when articulated well, which I am not doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 I guess this ones no big deal really. They just say something dumb like God is the one paying himself, so it is kind of forgiveness. It is still disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I understand what you're saying. One generally either demands a debt be paid, or one forgives the debt, rendering the debtor no longer responsible for paying. If we had a debt, and jesus was sent to pay it for us, that is his way of forgiving the DEBT, and we are ( or should be ) no longer required to seek his forgiveness. Yet, in the christian tradition, that does not seem to be the case; we must still first ask for forgiveness and follow certain rituals (repentance, tithing, worship, etc.) in order to make certain that we recieve it, meaning that the debt wasn't so much paid, as the means by which we are allowed to go about paying have changed. Everyone should be able to go to heaven if the debt were truly paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Hey Mick, I can definitely see your point there, and you're right. It makes no sense at all if the debt has been paid, that we owe even more if we choose to believe as Christians do. You know what else I thought doesn't make sense? That Christians are told they need to forgive people, even if they don't say sorry to them. Say for instance, when we were Christians, somebody wronged us, we would still have to forgive them, even if they didn't come to us and say sorry. Well, that doesn't work where the Christian god is concerned. If as people, we don't ask the Christian god for forgiveness, we're damned to hell! How's that for a deal? If god won't forgive you unless you ask to be forgiven, well, why can't Christians refuse to forgive, unless the person who wronged them asks to be forgiven? I thought that was an interesting point. Amelia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 From what I understand, Jesus wiped the slate clean with his death and made it possible for us to repent and wash our own slates clean. Basically handing us spiritual soul washing liquid. But we dirty it constantly, so we have to "bathe in the blood of Christ" (such a cheery idea) to wash our souls clean like washing a dish after we use it. As long as we keep doing the spiritual dishes, moral mold and celestial scum won't build up and we'll go to heaven. But if we die with dirty dishes, Mr. Clean is going to sweep us all to Hell. Er...or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 So am I the only one who thinks about the opening scene in the vampire nightclub from the "Blade" movie, when someone mentions "being washed in the blood"? I must be one sick fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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