Belief In God Making More Sense Than No Belief

[Jun]

In the post Man Was Created In God's Image? Marty stated the following:

 

I make my own beliefs. I do a lot of research. I talk to a lot of people. I gather information - teachings of life, etc. Then I analyse it, and put together what I call a belief. And it turns out the belief that made the most sense to me was one of God.

 

I have asked Marty if we may discuss this further in a new post. So I've started this post.

 

Marty, how does a belief in a "God" make sense?

 

Which other religions/faiths/cults etc. have you actually practiced - as opposed to simply read about?

 

How do you analyse other teachings? What is your "measuring stick" so to speak?

[MartyGibbans]

Ah, I really can't say much tonight. As I said - exam in the morning.

 

Basically the main reason I believe in God is because of the teachings that Jesus Christ left for us to follow. And his promise that if we follow them, we may live with him in the afterlife.

 

To be honest, I haven't studied much of the Bible or any other religions/cults etc other than the teachings of Christ. And to be honest, I may never do so. Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need. He taught love, respect for your fellow man, etc. I'm sure you know the basics. And to me, this is the way we should all be living our lives - in harmony with one another.

 

I see this man as my teacher. He came to this earth, led a perfect life, and then left the example there for all to follow. If we all lived like him, there would be no evil in the world! So I try my best every day to live like Jesus did. I try my best to respect every single person I meet. I try my best not to judge them. I try my best to not hold anything against people to do me wrong, etc, etc, etc, etc. And if my beliefs turn out to be wrong in the end, I don't really care, as in my own eyes, I would have led a fulfilling life.

 

I'm really having trouble stringing words into sentences here (it's been a stressful week) so I'll keep this short for tonight. I'll try and answer the question properly when I get time tomorrow.

[neverclear5]

 

 

To be honest, I haven't studied much of the Bible or any other religions/cults etc other than the teachings of Christ. And to be honest, I may never do so. Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need. He taught love, respect for your fellow man, etc. I'm sure you know the basics. And to me, this is the way we should all be living our lives - in harmony with one another.

 

I see this man as my teacher. He came to this earth, led a perfect life, and then left the example there for all to follow. If we all lived like him, there would be no evil in the world! So I try my best every day to live like Jesus did. I try my best to respect every single person I meet. I try my best not to judge them. I try my best to not hold anything against people to do me wrong, etc, etc, etc, etc. And if my beliefs turn out to be wrong in the end, I don't really care, as in my own eyes, I would have led a fulfilling life.

 

 

 

 

Amirable, to live the way that jesus (or any munber of similar, non-deisized figures), supposedly did is great. He was an extremely good person. He managed to take what was at times a fairly judgemental and babarous religion and teach it in a new way. This is comendable. The thing is when you analyse like you have and reach a "probable answer" you have to remember that not everyone is as scientific in their analysis. My own examinations indicate that althought christianity would be nice, it's very very unlikely. Some people however will here the lovely stories and be completely convinced by them and perhaps a charismatic leader. This is dangerous because that charismatic leader can preach loosely related things and pass them off as the word of god. I would urge you to, at least, study your own religion, and make sure that the whole thing is something you can attach your name too. We all like the "be excellent to each other" stuff, but that is not all that is in there and that message itself is taken from a Bill and Ted movie. Please don't be seduced by the "pretty tablecloths" or the "charming waiter" without checking the state of the kitchens

[Thurisaz]

To be honest, I haven't studied much of the Bible or any other religions/cults etc other than the teachings of Christ. And to be honest, I may never do so. Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need.

 

Not to sound snarky, but... you admit that your knowledge of your faith's scripture is, well, far from complete, but that doesn't stop you from thinking that you know perfectly well what your godman taught?

 

Kind of... daring... no?

 

I strongly suggest you actually read the whole thing. At least then you can confidently say that you know what you're talking about.

[Jun]

Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need. He taught love, respect for your fellow man, etc.

 

Could you please provide the scripture verse, chapter and what-not where "Jesus" teaches love and respect for your fellow man.

 

According to the bible, "Jesus" came to destroy families by making family members hate each other.

 

Some quotes from "Jesus:"

 

“Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth. No, rather a sword if you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine."

Matthew 10:34

 

“Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Matthew 10:21

 

“He that curseth his father or mother, let him be put to death.”

Matthew 15:4-7

 

And "Jesus" approved of slavery and corporal punishment as evidenced by this:

 

"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

Luke 12:47-48

 

I couldn't find anything about love or respect, maybe you have a different bible?

[StewartP]

Not to sound snarky, but... you admit that your knowledge of your faith's scripture is, well, far from complete, but that doesn't stop you from thinking that you know perfectly well what your godman taught?

 

Thurisaz - I know absolutely zip about Thor and Odin and the gang. Does your pantheism have any scriptures that give guides on morality or what to do/not to do?

 

I know there are lot of myths about the boys in Valhalla, but is there an official collection of all these writings?

What are the earliest records of these myths? Have they been copied slavishly as the Christian documents were? Were they translated at any stage, and if so, was there great effort to get the translations accurate or did the translators go with the poetic feel of the stuff - a la Beowulf into English?

 

Bear in mind ( do NOT think the Bible is the word of God. I am hard atheist)

 

I'm just interested in what makes a person declare himself Thor's warrior, given that I don't believe any germanic soldier thru history ever fought "in the name of Thor"

 

regards

 

Stew

 

 

“He that curseth his father or mother, let him be put to death.”

Matthew 15:4-7

 

Not to mention that on every occasion that jesus addressed his mother, he called her "woman" for example:

And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

John 2:3-4 (KJV)

 

Hardly respectful, and thus in conflict with his own teachings:

"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Matthew 19:17-19 (NIV)

[Thurisaz]

Thurisaz - I know absolutely zip about Thor and Odin and the gang. Does your pantheism have any scriptures that give guides on morality or what to do/not to do?

 

I know there are lot of myths about the boys in Valhalla, but is there an official collection of all these writings?

 

The closest to an "official collection" would be the Poetic Edda. Other sagas of the olden times qualify too, more or less (see below).

As for morality, the most important part of the Edda regarding this would be the "Havamal" poem, supposedly containing the advice of Odin himself on how to best live as a human among humans.

 

What are the earliest records of these myths? Have they been copied slavishly as the Christian documents were? Were they translated at any stage, and if so, was there great effort to get the translations accurate or did the translators go with the poetic feel of the stuff - a la Beowulf into English?

 

Unfortunately, them morontheists did their job pretty well.

 

What is the Edda (or Eddas - there's a "Prose Edda" too) today has been written down sometime around 1200 CE if memory serves, by an Icelandic monk. Yes, by a christian. After "my" kind of heathen had been mostly defeated as a "rival" of the good jebus slave. How reliable is it? Good question.

 

But it's all we have today.

 

The original was in ancient Icelandic of course, there are a bunch of translations floating around. You can find the English H. A. Bellows-translation here.

 

On the other hand, Asatru (as I understand it) is very personal anyway. "We" commonly consider the "scriptures" to be guidelines, not commandments, and nowhere do the sagas say that they are literal truth or something similarly nonsensical, so... it's up to you what you make of it, and you are responsible for how you interpret it.

 

And if you wonder how I came to Asatru... last time I checked, the testimonies forum here still held my own entry. You'll have to search quite a bit into the past, but you should be able to find it there.

[MartyGibbans]

Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need. He taught love, respect for your fellow man, etc.

 

Could you please provide the scripture verse, chapter and what-not where "Jesus" teaches love and respect for your fellow man.

 

According to the bible, "Jesus" came to destroy families by making family members hate each other.

 

Some quotes from "Jesus:"

 

“Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth. No, rather a sword if you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine."

Matthew 10:34

 

“Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Matthew 10:21

 

“He that curseth his father or mother, let him be put to death.”

Matthew 15:4-7

 

And "Jesus" approved of slavery and corporal punishment as evidenced by this:

 

"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

Luke 12:47-48

 

I couldn't find anything about love or respect, maybe you have a different bible?

 

After a short Google search, here are some of the good things he did - (I can't sleep! GRR!)

 

Miracles:

http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/miracles/

 

And some simplified teachings:

 

You are to love all people and pray for those who hate you - Matthew 5:446

 

Forgive all who sin against you - Matthew 6:14-159

 

Do not judge others. Examine your own behavior - Matthew 7:1-5

 

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12, Jesus Christ)

 

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. (Luke 6:35)

 

"Do not judge lest you be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

 

"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. "Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. (Matthew 6:33-34)

 

For this reason I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, as to what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, as to what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body than clothing? "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? "And which of you by being anxious can add a single cubit to his life's span? "And why are you anxious about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory did not clothe himself like one of these. "But if God so arrays the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more do so for you, O men of little faith? "Do not be anxious then, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'With what shall we clothe ourselves?' "For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. (Matthew 6:25-33)

 

"And when you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. (Matthew 6:5-6)

 

And that, my friends, is why I follow Jesus Christ.

[Lycorth]

The Xian propaganda machine has done its work well if it has convinced anyone that Jebus was a nice guy who taught nice things.

 

My research also fails to yield a "nice" Jebus - rather, I find a sadistic cult leader. True, he did espouse the Golden Rule, which as we all know is an older concept than Xianity, but his being an near-total asshole otherwise isn't magically erased.

 

We have Jebus being a jerk, Jebus acting like a crazy cult leader, Jebus lying, more evidence of Jebus being an asshole, and Jebus setting himself up as a false messiah, according to this source and this source. If Jebus taught anything remotely nice, I fail to see it.

 

There are no writings about Jebus of Nazareth as only a man. All writings tell of Jebus as God. Hence, the only writings we have to go on are those which already deify Jebus, so even suggesting that Jebus was only a nice guy who was deified is very unlikely to be true.

 

By the way, I don't believe Jebus ever existed, since there is no contemporary evidence for his existence cited by other sources, such as the Romans.

 

The Havamal is a fine source for determining what modern Asatruar believe. When I finally seriously explored Asatru, I purchased a copy. Damn good book, that. Even if you ignore the section on rune-magic, it makes a pretty good guide to morality - not a set of rules and regulations, but just good advice. I can more easily respect in the god who is said to have given us the Havamal than the Babble, and I do. Find the Havamal here.

 

If you want to reinterpret Jebus to suit your own needs, that's fine - better than believing in the classical Jebus. But do understand, the Jebus of the Babble is a total asshole, and that's why I don't honor him.

[Jun]

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Matthew 19:17-19 (NIV)

 

The 6th commandment - Do not murder is hypocritical considering all the punishments that require the death sentence in both the New Testament and the Old Testament.

 

The 7th commandment - Do not commit adultery - "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death."

 

The 5th commandment - honour your father and mother - "He that curseth his father or mother, let him be put to death."

 

"Love your neighbour as yourself" "Jesus" made his own commandment there as it wasn't in the original commandments, or am I mistaken?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

 

 

 

[Jun]

Ten commandments and the bibles punishments here -

 

http://www.evilbible.com/ten_commandments.htm

 

By the way, I don't believe Jebus ever existed, since there is no contemporary evidence for his existence cited by other sources, such as the Romans.

 

Nor do I. Just another mythical god. Some damn good evidence against him ever existing here -

 

http://jesusneverexisted.com/index.html

 

Not to mention that on every occasion that jesus addressed his mother, he called her "woman" for example:

And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

John 2:3-4 (KJV)

"Jesus" had the shits, 'cause his trick wasn't ready yet.

 

[MartyGibbans]

Ten commandments and the bibles punishments here -

 

http://www.evilbible.com/ten_commandments.htm

 

 

 

 

Yep. What's your point?

 

I'll reply tomorrow (unless I still can't sleep.)

 

Peace.

[Jun]

Ten commandments and the bibles punishments here -

 

http://www.evilbible.com/ten_commandments.htm

 

Yep. What's your point?

 

I'll reply tomorrow (unless I still can't sleep.)

 

Peace.

 

No point, just showing where my post came from.

[Antlerman]

After a short Google search, here are some of the good things he did - (I can't sleep! GRR!)

 

Miracles:

http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/miracles/

 

And some simplified teachings:

 

You are to love all people and pray for those who hate you - Matthew 5:446

 

Forgive all who sin against you - Matthew 6:14-159

 

Do not judge others. Examine your own behavior - Matthew 7:1-5

 

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12, Jesus Christ)

 

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. (Luke 6:35)

 

"Do not judge lest you be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

 

"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. "Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. (Matthew 6:33-34)

 

For this reason I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, as to what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, as to what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body than clothing? "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? "And which of you by being anxious can add a single cubit to his life's span? "And why are you anxious about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory did not clothe himself like one of these. "But if God so arrays the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more do so for you, O men of little faith? "Do not be anxious then, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'With what shall we clothe ourselves?' "For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. (Matthew 6:25-33)

 

"And when you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. (Matthew 6:5-6)

 

And that, my friends, is why I follow Jesus Christ.

And this is what I mean when I say, "In the beginning Man created God in his own image". You have some creating God as judgmental, dogmatic, violent, hateful, petty, jealous, vengeful, and unjust. You also have some creating God as being benevolent, loving, forgiving, patient, compassionate, wise, and parental.

 

The image of God you choose to support speaks to the image of yourself you wish to be like. This is commendable.

 

Yet in the analysis, "God" is the image of ourselves we want to be like. This is not about who God is, but who WE are. Thanks for being a peacemaker in the world. The created image of God you choose support is a better imagine than many others.

 

In the end, the only truth is the one we desire to be.

[Kurari]

Nicely said, Antlerman.

 

I've long noticed there is a deep division between what Christians believe their religion to be, and what the Bible actually says it is.

 

If Jehovah is truely unconditionally loving and omnipotent, then it invalidates most of the Bible and negates the whole Jesus myth. If you believe the Bible...well, I think you'd end up like the Westboro Baptist Church members.

 

I would much prefer Christians to worship Jesus as a teacher and God as truely benevolent, but I think it would end up seriously gutting the most of the religon and turning it pretty much into something else entirely.

[Jun]

I've long noticed there is a deep division between what Christians believe their religion to be, and what the Bible actually says it is.

 

Definately.

[Eponymic]

 

To be honest, I haven't studied much of the Bible or any other religions/cults etc other than the teachings of Christ. And to be honest, I may never do so. Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need. He taught love, respect for your fellow man, etc. I'm sure you know the basics. And to me, this is the way we should all be living our lives - in harmony with one another.

 

I see this man as my teacher. He came to this earth, led a perfect life, and then left the example there for all to follow.

 

 

 

Three main things here.

 

1. How can you commit yourself to following something, when you don't have all the facts about it?

You say you haven't studied much of the Bible, and by your understanding of Jesus, it is apparent you don't know who you're following either. What I here is something akin to a person who is dumbstruck with love or infatuation, and therefore are completely shutting themselves from the truths or flaws about a person because they're so caught up in what they like about them.

 

2. If you're following Jesus, you're following the Bible. It's kind of like trying to buy Jesus's teachings as cliff notes. It's a package deal. Otherwise, you might as well just rip the entire old testament, and some of the new out of your bible, because they don't deal with Jesus at all.

 

3. You believe Jesus led a perfect life. Do you truly believe this? Because if you do, then does it not hold true that if Jesus committed one sin, one error, one mistake, then he is not perfect.

 

Also, if Jesus is not perfect, then does it make sense that you should study a good bit more because you aren't aware of everything you're following? And that what you're following, although the principals may be good, the means of getting there may not be through the source (i.e. the Bible) you're currently using.

 

 

I also appreciate the willingness to live a life in harmony with everyone & everything. Though you don't have to follow an entity to do that. Actually, you don't have to follow anyone. All you have to follow are the fundamental precepts that create the greatest good for nature & humanity. And those aren't mandated properly by any religion.

[MartyGibbans]

 

To be honest, I haven't studied much of the Bible or any other religions/cults etc other than the teachings of Christ. And to be honest, I may never do so. Christ's teachings, in my opinion, are all that I need. He taught love, respect for your fellow man, etc. I'm sure you know the basics. And to me, this is the way we should all be living our lives - in harmony with one another.

 

I see this man as my teacher. He came to this earth, led a perfect life, and then left the example there for all to follow.

 

 

 

Three main things here.

 

1. How can you commit yourself to following something, when you don't have all the facts about it?

You say you haven't studied much of the Bible, and by your understanding of Jesus, it is apparent you don't know who you're following either. What I here is something akin to a person who is dumbstruck with love or infatuation, and therefore are completely shutting themselves from the truths or flaws about a person because they're so caught up in what they like about them.

 

2. If you're following Jesus, you're following the Bible. It's kind of like trying to buy Jesus's teachings as cliff notes. It's a package deal. Otherwise, you might as well just rip the entire old testament, and some of the new out of your bible, because they don't deal with Jesus at all.

 

3. You believe Jesus led a perfect life. Do you truly believe this? Because if you do, then does it not hold true that if Jesus committed one sin, one error, one mistake, then he is not perfect.

 

Also, if Jesus is not perfect, then does it make sense that you should study a good bit more because you aren't aware of everything you're following? And that what you're following, although the principals may be good, the means of getting there may not be through the source (i.e. the Bible) you're currently using.

 

 

I also appreciate the willingness to live a life in harmony with everyone & everything. Though you don't have to follow an entity to do that. Actually, you don't have to follow anyone. All you have to follow are the fundamental precepts that create the greatest good for nature & humanity. And those aren't mandated properly by any religion.

 

1. I see Jesus' teachings as separate to anything else in the Bible. In my opinion, because the Bible was written by man, I have the right to pick and chose the teachings I want to follow.

 

2. A package deal? Says who? I reserve my right to choose my beliefs.

 

3. I believe that Jesus led a life that goes far beyond the comprehension of any normal man. If not perfect, then he was the closest anyone has ever gotten.

 

I am constantly studying. Every day, I'm continuing to develop my beliefs. I'm only 20, I have a long way to go.

[Lycorth]

1. I see Jesus' teachings as separate to anything else in the Bible. In my opinion, because the Bible was written by man, I have the right to pick and chose the teachings I want to follow.

 

A wise decision. While the authentic Jebus is found only in the traditional Xian interpretation(s) of the Babble, you're doing a smart thing by picking what you think is good and relevant and rejecting the rest. Thinking for yourself is always good.

 

1. 2. A package deal? Says who? I reserve my right to choose my beliefs.

 

Yes you do - and good that you choose to exercise that right. Too many who admire Jebus let other Xians decide their beliefs. If you were claiming to be a "True Xian™" then yes, you'd have to (try to) accept the entire Babble. Only if.

 

1. 3. I believe that Jesus led a life that goes far beyond the comprehension of any normal man. If not perfect, then he was the closest anyone has ever gotten.

 

How do you figure that?

[Antlerman]

Nicely said, Antlerman.

 

I've long noticed there is a deep division between what Christians believe their religion to be, and what the Bible actually says it is.

 

If Jehovah is truely unconditionally loving and omnipotent, then it invalidates most of the Bible and negates the whole Jesus myth. If you believe the Bible...well, I think you'd end up like the Westboro Baptist Church members.

 

I would much prefer Christians to worship Jesus as a teacher and God as truely benevolent, but I think it would end up seriously gutting the most of the religon and turning it pretty much into something else entirely.

Thanks, and likewise, nicely said. This is key to what I understand as the necessary dymamic in religion that allows it to evolve to changing sensiblities in cultures. Fundamentalist thinking kills this evolution. God is a creation of man for man. Man changes, God must change to meet man.

 

Christianity in the States has been on a long, steady implosion in the face of Modernity and has been struggling to find its relevence in modern global society. The rise of fundamentalism is a reactionary symptom of this implosion. Likewise, the struggle to redefine God in terms of a post-enlightment mindset in liberal, and neo-orthodox theologies is sympotmatic of this. In either case, fundamentalist beliefs are pseudo-orginal beliefs, and we see in everything that God is evolving with the societies that hired him for the job of defining themselves, and giving meaning to their lives in an evolving world.

[Thurisaz]

1. I see Jesus' teachings as separate to anything else in the Bible. In my opinion, because the Bible was written by man, I have the right to pick and chose the teachings I want to follow.

 

2. A package deal? Says who? I reserve my right to choose my beliefs.

 

Someone just improved my opinion of him quite a bit with some few words.

 

I still don't totally agree with you, but you seem to be better than I first thought.

[MartyGibbans]

1. I see Jesus' teachings as separate to anything else in the Bible. In my opinion, because the Bible was written by man, I have the right to pick and chose the teachings I want to follow.

 

2. A package deal? Says who? I reserve my right to choose my beliefs.

 

Someone just improved my opinion of him quite a bit with some few words.

 

I still don't totally agree with you, but you seem to be better than I first thought.

 

Um, thanks.. I think

[Taaliba22]

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt. To believe is to accept things that you do NOT know. Either you know or you don't. Once you know - then you no longer have to believe and belief is the fuel of most religions.

Belief = acceptance of things that you don't know

 

 

Knowledge = correct information which is always logical and reasons out.

Knowledge can be checked out by one or more of three test:

1) Experience

2) Evidence

3) Reason

One can not always use the "experience" test, because the experience test is not practical for all knowledge. The evidence & reason test are those test which are more often practical.

 

You either believe or you know. Belief is accepting things without knowing and knowing is to have knowledge which is correct information. Thus the 3 test can be applied to knowledge as previously stated.

 

What you are asking is similar to what was given as an example a while back ..

 

 

Fact: Snow white lived with 7 dwarfs.

Fact: One of the dwarfs name was dopey

Fact: Snow appears in a move made by Walt Disney

Fact: Snow white is rate G

Fact: Snow white met a witch

Fact: Snow white fell into a deep sleep and was awakened by the kiss

of a prince.

All these are facts. But SNOW WHITE is a fictional story.

[Saviourmachine]

Stewart, you have weird arms. They mirror when you poke through your screen.

 

PS: This is a very old thread.

[Evolution_beyond]

Thurisaz - I know absolutely zip about Thor and Odin and the gang. Does your pantheism have any scriptures that give guides on morality or what to do/not to do?

 

Sorry for being a pedant but this is one of my personal gripes. It really annoys me when people get polytheism and pantheism confused.

 

Pantheism is the belief that the Universe = God

 

Polytheism is the belief in more than one god.

 

Although it may be possible to be both they are quite different things and most Pantheists are pretty much monotheists, except that they see God as fully integrated into the Universe (like a conscious universe that is God). On the other hand some pantheists are pretty much glorified atheists. A polytheist who believes the gods and the natural powers they represent are one and the same might be considered a polytheist pantheist I suppose. But basically the two terms refer to different things.

 

I think people get confused because of the word 'pantheon', meaning a collection of gods (such as the Greek pantheon for example)

 

This is only because 'pan' means 'all'. Pantheon literally means 'all the gods', while pantheism means 'everything is God'

 

Meanwhile polytheism is the correct term if you mean a belief in 'many gods'