Why Should I Repect Your Beliefs?

[neverclear5]

Why should I repect your beliefs?

What is it about this word believe that makes everyone thing we should respect it. Somehow, someone says believe and we all back away in repectful silence. Someone says they THINK that my dog can understand english and we call them a moron (and for the record they would be). Someone says I BELIEVE that God will punish me if I use a lightswitch on a saturday and we all go, oh I repect that. WHY?? Just because you say "believe" instead of "think" its alright to turn off deductive reasoning? If you believe something stupid, like "I cant eat meat on friday" or "I have to wear a scarf around my hair all day" then its stupid, I don't care how invested in it you are. I wont take steps to stop you doing this stupid thing same as I wouldn't stop someone smashing up their own house or painting their arse blue but I'm not gonna make allowances for it, I'm not gonna let it disrupt my life, and I'm not gonna refrain from calling it stupid. You wanna do something ridiculous go right ahead but don't expect me to provide you with a seperate menu or a special room.

 

please use the other one of same name

[Thurisaz]

Belief might lead someone to exercise a hefty bit of self-control, and that may well be admirable and respectable.

Of course, what those self-imposed restrictions are is another question altogether... whether they actually benefit someone or something or whether there's no plausible reason for them.

 

As the webmaster of one site I like (www.creationtheory.org) says quite correctly, self-restraint for a good reason is nice, but without any practical use it's dumb - that's paraphrased from memory I admit.

[neverclear5]

Belief might lead someone to exercise a hefty bit of self-control, and that may well be admirable and respectable.

Of course, what those self-imposed restrictions are is another question altogether... whether they actually benefit someone or something or whether there's no plausible reason for them.

 

As the webmaster of one site I like (www.creationtheory.org) says quite correctly, self-restraint for a good reason is nice, but without any practical use it's dumb - that's paraphrased from memory I admit.

 

 

belief is not a requirement of self control. belief simply means to "think without any verification" Why does your (perhaps not you specifically) random thought which you cannot prove demand respect but one not labelled as a "belief", such as panspermia (quite possibly true) or fairies? (most probably not)

[Thurisaz]

Point taken. What I meant to say is that people commonly (or so it seems to me) equate "(religious) belief" with "self-restraint".

Not too plausible, but if this is your presupposition then the whole thing becomes somewhat plausible. In many specific cases (like "other people's sexuality must be this-and-that way") this concept very obviously does not hold true of course.

[neverclear5]

Point taken. What I meant to say is that people commonly (or so it seems to me) equate "(religious) belief" with "self-restraint".

Not too plausible, but if this is your presupposition then the whole thing becomes somewhat plausible. In many specific cases (like "other people's sexuality must be this-and-that way") this concept very obviously does not hold true of course.

 

 

Yeah yeah I guess. My main point was just that we seem to back away from a belief like its a lit stick of dynamite. Maybe its just a way of getting someone not to spout at you but It just gets annoying that your discussing something with someone, you say "do you really think that?" and they say "I believe it" as if thats an end to the whole conversation. Belief is just your best guess and it should surely be questioned more not less.

[Thurisaz]

That of course is true.

 

Well, a belief that harms no one can of course be left alone. But if one's belief leads to, say, "Kill all those heathen satanist islamist swine!!!11!!!", it's time for some serious questioning indeed. At least.

And "harm" begins with influencing others to their disadvantage... like trying to get babblical cretinism into science classes.

[neverclear5]

That of course is true.

 

Well, a belief that harms no one can of course be left alone. But if one's belief leads to, say, "Kill all those heathen satanist islamist swine!!!11!!!", it's time for some serious questioning indeed. At least.

And "harm" begins with influencing others to their disadvantage... like trying to get babblical cretinism into science classes.

 

MOST DEFINITELY!!!!! I'm a scientist and it pisses me off that people with no idea how it works try to argue for equality of ideas when science is not about that at all. They also seem to think that there is a significant section of the scientific community that supports them when there are in fact about 5 guys in the states who believe what they do. They also keep gripping onto one piece of evidense against all the rest, untill that gets discounted and then they go for something else. They live in a world where if one thing is true/false then everything related to it is true/false. It pisses me off more than anything else. They talk about it ony being a "theory of evolution" which simply means to the best of our knowledge this is what happened. We also have a lot of other "theories" such as gravity, electromagnetism, relativity, etc. They don't seem to realise science changes and they are called theories because they can be changed as new evidense comes in. They talk about the arrogance of science when this very concept shows the complete lack of arrogance in the community. At this point the evidense against creationism is so great that the only way I can see for it to be true is if God arrives and says he's faked almost every peice of scientific evidense gathered in the last 2000 years! I don't quite see how this "prankster god" would be worthy of anything but a swift kick in the teeth.

 

hmmm, this seems to have become a completely different rant. I may start a new thread.

 

P.S. any belief not based on anything real is harmful as it encourages the mind to remain in a state of perpetual childhood (in which we have to believe what we are told or we would not survive) and prevents us from becoming fully functioning adults, able to make a contribution to our advancement. It's the start of a slippery slope.

[Cracked]

Replying to the top post "Why should I respect your beliefs?"

 

Personally I think that when the majority rules like xanity where you have many people saying they "believe" in the xtian ways, then most other beliefs are associated with that and fall in line with the same mentality. If xtians can do things and get away with whatever, then most other beliefs will fall in the same category of respect.

[The Paineful Truth]

neverclear5 wrote:

belief simply means to "think without any verification"

 

I don't think so. It can be to hold a given position with significant evidence on down to little or no evidence. We all have beliefs that are short of absolute knowledge. I think some people back off from someone's belief just to avoid confrontation, rather than as a real expression of respect (no matter what is actually said). What can you do. It doesn't happen often here.

[neverclear5]

neverclear5 wrote:

belief simply means to "think without any verification"

 

I don't think so. It can be to hold a given position with significant evidence on down to little or no evidence. We all have beliefs that are short of absolute knowledge. I think some people back off from someone's belief just to avoid confrontation, rather than as a real expression of respect (no matter what is actually said). What can you do. It doesn't happen often here.

 

 

sort of. The real definition of belief is to think without verification. For those things which are almost certain then think is the proper word to use. No knowledge can be absolute because whatever evidence there is could have been planted etc. but belief really defines when there is no definite hard evidense.

I would also like to say that someone whining on about how something makes them feel is not evidence. Thinking that god or buddah or an imaginary elephant has helped you in hard times means nothing. I was discusted when they said they may introduce to the british lgal system a bit where the victims family or whatever can come out and have a cry and that this would affect the sentencing!! The crime is what is being punished, whether or not someone was close to their sister or father or whatever has nothing to do with it!

[Amethyst]

I think there is a difference between respect and tolerance. Tolerance means that you put up with something, even though you don't like it. You don't go around killing people just because they don't share your beliefs.

 

OTOH, respect is earned, not freely given. People who want respect for free don't really understand what it means. You don't get respect for free.

[neverclear5]

I think there is a difference between respect and tolerance. Tolerance means that you put up with something, even though you don't like it. You don't go around killing people just because they don't share your beliefs.

 

OTOH, respect is earned, not freely given. People who want respect for free don't really understand what it means. You don't get respect for free.

 

 

I agree completely, I tolerate people doing whatever they want but my question is why should I respect it? I think its stupid. I'm happy to say that. If you think I'm doing something stupid then fine you can tell me and no-one would mind. The thing is if I say it about someones stupidity thats based on religion I'm being disrespectful and some would say should be punished.

[Amethyst]

I agree completely, I tolerate people doing whatever they want but my question is why should I respect it? I think its stupid. I'm happy to say that. If you think I'm doing something stupid then fine you can tell me and no-one would mind. The thing is if I say it about someones stupidity thats based on religion I'm being disrespectful and some would say should be punished.

 

I don't think anyone should have to respect something or someone if that respect hasn't been earned.

[The Sage Nabooru]

Why should we respect YOUR beliefs, neverclear?

 

I will respect anyone's beliefs as long as they don't infringe on my or anyone else's. If a woman decides that Allah wants her to dress up like a droopy ninja and wear a little screen over her face at all times so she doesn't sinfully inspire the men around her to start thrusting uncontrollably, that's her problem and not mine. If a man decides that the Holy Spirit has taught him how to speak Martian for a few ecstatic seconds, if that's what he wants, so be it. I draw the line when I get told that Allah will damn me for smiling at strangers, or when invitations are handed out at colleges to attend rolling-around-on-floor-half-conscious sessions.

 

I love discussing religion and spirituality; I think everybody should have an open mind. In a perfect world, we'd all exchange books and ideas over Ultimate Reality, peacefully and without some grandiose idea of our own ideas' exclusive correctness. I find that while many people do purposefully close themselves off to new ideas, which is sad, I do find that a lot of other people (who are generally called "liberal") have their beliefs quietly simply because that's the conclusion they came to.

 

I think some beliefs are better to have than others. I certainly believe that liberalism in thought and spirituality has a better right to be here than stifling fundamentalism. And I will fight fundamentalism and militantism as much as I can. But when a person shows the actual desire to just get long and recognize and respect others and open their eyes to the idea that maybe it really is all the same God, or even that specific religious adherence really doesn't matter, I think it would be wrong for me to have a problem with them - somebody who is simply trying to be the best they can be.

[Kurari]

I have absolutely no respect for many religions. I have great respect for the freedom of religion. If someone wants to belive in Jehovah, Allah, or the Flying Spaghettie Monster, I respect their right to do so. I may think it's incredibly stupid and I might even voice that opinion, but I'm not going to try to shut down their churches, mosques, or pirate ships.

 

There are different types of respect. Some of it is just to do with good manners, other times it's about a deep connection of value.

[neverclear5]

I have absolutely no respect for many religions. I have great respect for the freedom of religion. If someone wants to belive in Jehovah, Allah, or the Flying Spaghettie Monster, I respect their right to do so. I may think it's incredibly stupid and I might even voice that opinion, but I'm not going to try to shut down their churches, mosques, or pirate ships.

 

There are different types of respect. Some of it is just to do with good manners, other times it's about a deep connection of value.

 

 

Hey man, I'm English. I have manners exploding out of my ears. And yeah, discuss, tolerate, allow them to do it, fine. But I'm still gonna call them stupid if they're being stupid. I've done stupid things and no-one examined my motive of historical presedent for my stupidity. They just said get down of the bar or we'll get chucked out!

Thankyou all, very interesting responses.

[Cracked]

I have to agree with Amethyst "Respect is earned". To many people just assume others repsect them for who they are affiliated with.

[Amethyst]

I have to agree with Amethyst "Respect is earned". To many people just assume others repsect them for who they are affiliated with.

 

And too many people use "respect" and "tolerate" interchangeably when it comes to religious beliefs. There is a difference between the two.

[neverclear5]

I have to agree with Amethyst "Respect is earned". To many people just assume others repsect them for who they are affiliated with.

 

And too many people use "respect" and "tolerate" interchangeably when it comes to religious beliefs. There is a difference between the two.

 

I know it's here twice, just use this one

[Clergicide]

I have absolutely no respect for many religions. I have great respect for the freedom of religion. If someone wants to belive in Jehovah, Allah, or the Flying Spaghettie Monster, I respect their right to do so. I may think it's incredibly stupid and I might even voice that opinion, but I'm not going to try to shut down their churches, mosques, or pirate ships.

 

There are different types of respect. Some of it is just to do with good manners, other times it's about a deep connection of value.

 

 

Hey man, I'm English. I have manners exploding out of my ears. And yeah, discuss, tolerate, allow them to do it, fine. But I'm still gonna call them stupid if they're being stupid. I've done stupid things and no-one examined my motive of historical presedent for my stupidity. They just said get down of the bar or we'll get chucked out!

Thankyou all, very interesting responses.

 

The right answer is there's a time and a place. Tolerance should be maintained until the beliefs in question are infringing on the rights of others, then all bets are off. Whatever people want to believe, in either direction, in the privacy of their own heads and homes is their right as a semi-evolved animal. But once they take them into the street...

[Toxic]

Isn't it funny how Born Agains expect their beliefs to be respected and yet they don't respect the beliefs of the people their missionaries are trying to convert Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia ,etc.