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Gay Marriage


neverclear5
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Gay marriage,

A lot of the opponents to gay marriage seem to be basing most of their objection (those trying not to look like homophobes anyway) on it damaging the sanctity of marriage and somehow removing the importance of it.

Now it seems to me two people falling in love, and deciding to live and love together for the rest of their lives and wanting to make this commitment before their god (I don't beleive in him, but whatever), but their both the same gender is a lot less damaging to the "sanctity" of marriage than two people getting plastered in Vegas, fucking the hell out of ech other (personally I'm a big fan) and then waking up in a cheap motel with a crumpled sick stained marriage certificate, handed to them the night before by a drunk Elvis impersonator.

Maybe its just me.

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The concept of sanctity is based on the notion that god blesses the marriage union.

 

To sanctify is to set aside for god's purpose. This is merely a gay hating message in disguise. Sanctity my ass!

 

To me marriage is essentially a legal arrangement that outlines (perhaps poorly :Hmm: ) the consequences of divorce. I could give a shit if you are gay or straight.

 

Mongo

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Marriage is not sacred, it is an agreement by two people who usually care about eachother. Gay marriage is just two people of the same sex doing this same thing...thats what same sex marriage opponents dont understand. They think that mariage between a man and a woman is special...its not.

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Marriage is not sacred, it is an agreement by two people who usually care about eachother. Gay marriage is just two people of the same sex doing this same thing...thats what same sex marriage opponents dont understand. They think that mariage between a man and a woman is special...its not.

 

I agree there's nothing sacred about marriage (as I don't believe in a god), my point was, in the mind of a christian, shouldn't the vegas scenario be worse?

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In the mind of a Xian, perhaps it should be worse, yes... however, I think what would actually be considered "worse" would be divorce. Xians are all about marriage; I don't think they much care how it's accomplished - blessed by the Pope, or by an Elvis impersonator, the idea is that it's better to get married than to have illicit nookie (aka "burn with passion").

 

So I'm not sure Xians would have any fuss about exactly how straight folks get married, because the end result is the same; however, divorce is something else entirely to a Xian. For many it is indeed a major no-no. (It was for me and my ex-spouse when I was a Xian; and last I heard, my still-Xian ex still thinks we're technically married in the eyes of God.) There are a few denominations here and there where divorce actually isn't acceptable at all.

 

Nonetheless, churches have to tolerate it to some extent, both because the state allows for it, and because, frankly, Xians want to be able to get divorced. So they don't fuss about it - despite the whole "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder" thing in a lot of Xian marriage vows.

 

So by and large, the whole "sanctity of marriage" thing is a total crock, because Xian churchgoers regularly use divorce to end their own miserable marriages, and that does far more to "erode" or "defile" marriage than whether or not two people of the same sex/gender decide to tie the knot. The real truth is that straight Xians just don't want gay people to join their little marriage club.

 

Besides, as has already been mentioned, there really isn't anything "sacred" about marriage anyway. It's a human contract, a human relationship undertaken for the purpose of starting your own family unit. Nothing holy about it, it's just a social arrangement. Adding gay folks to the pot wouldn't hurt anything.

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To me marriage is essentially a legal arrangement that outlines (perhaps poorly :Hmm: ) the consequences of divorce. I could give a shit if you are gay or straight.

May I paraphrase you on that?

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Not much to add except that I agree with all the above posts. Banning it is just hate in disguise, and yet another silly Christian rule with no basis in reality.

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To me marriage is essentially a legal arrangement that outlines (perhaps poorly :Hmm: ) the consequences of divorce. I could give a shit if you are gay or straight.

May I paraphrase you on that?

 

Sure... just don't use it against me. You do realize that the second sentence says, "I support gay marriage"?

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I think marriage is "sacred" - because humans generally consider it very important. After all, we are the inventors of God, so we really are the ones who decide what is sacred.

 

That said, gay marriage is no more or less sacred than heterosexual marriage. A marriage, basically, is an oath sworn between two people in love. Even in the case of arranged marriages, a marriage is still basically an oath binding two people together. There is no reason a gay marriage is therefore any less of a marriage.

 

That oath doesn't depend on the gender or sexual preference or orientation of any of the involved parties - and morally shouldn't.

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I really haven't noticed this whole gay marriage thing having any effect on my marriage at all. Really, it's just the same as ever. No big hole opened up in the side of it or anything. We're just fine here.

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What are married fundies secretly afraid of, that their love for each other is so weak that two people who strongly love each other in another state who just happen to be the same gender will somehow bring down their marriage? And how would gay marriage do this, exactly? Nobody has yet to explain that part.

 

I can just hear the divorce proceedings now:

 

Judge: Why exactly are you getting divorced?

 

Fundy Wife: Well, you see, it was those darn gay people who got married in South Africa.

 

Judge: Really? How so?

 

Fundy Husband: They got married, and it destroyed our marriage.

 

Judge: But what happened, exactly? Surely you don't expect me to grant you a divorce based on that alone.

 

Fundy Wife & Fundy Husband: It just happened! The Bible says so!

 

:rolleyes: Yes, that was sarcasm.

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Neverclear5,

 

You said;

 

"Now it seems to me two people falling in love, and deciding to live and love together for the rest of their lives and wanting to make this commitment before their god (I don't beleive in him, but whatever), but their both the same gender is a lot less damaging to the "sanctity" of marriage than two people getting plastered in Vegas, fucking the hell out of ech other (personally I'm a big fan) and then waking up in a cheap motel with a crumpled sick stained marriage certificate, handed to them the night before by a drunk Elvis impersonator.

Maybe its just me."

 

It might be just you. Frankly, gender aside, the last part of this paragraph of yours sounds like it would be way more fun. How, in your scenario, did the marriage certificate become 'crumpled and sick stained'? If I woke up in a cheap motel in Vegas, with someone who had also got plastered with me the night before, I might consider that to be true love. And what do you have against Elvis impersonators?

 

:wicked:

 

 

I see your point of course, and I would say that the Christian ethic of marriage has no place in anyone's bedroom, life or love. I mean, if that's how they want to live, fine. But if the other is how I want to live, what is that to them?

 

From my experience, at least here in Michigan, I would have to say that marriage has no 'sanctity' anyway.

 

The woman I married, lo those many years ago, agreed with me that it would be 'till death do us part'. The State had to have a few bucks for the license and all. Two years later, the State granted my wife a divorce (for a fee, of course), because she changed her mind.

 

I don't think 'the State' should have any say so in what marriage is, or what sanctity is. It's not their business, and in my zip code, there is no respect for any laws concerning such things anymore on my part.

 

So is it God's business? I have to ask, why does God condemn two males together, but not so much two females together? Hmmnnn... because God is a male? That would be fodder for stand up comics if it didn't wreck so many human lives.

 

If the Christian Bible is true, then John 3:16 must be true, without regard for who is having a relationship with whom, wouldn't ya think? But no. Believe, but also you must also do. That seems to negate John 3:16.

 

I would love to say that Christians are more anal then their God, but I can't, because I've read 'His Book'. It seems that the sour faced Christian do-gooders that condemn everything aren't so far from the truth of their beliefs. Give them that, at least those types are trying to be true to what they believe. And that's something that neither Michigan, nor God can do here where I live.

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Marriage is not sacred, it is an agreement by two people who usually care about eachother. Gay marriage is just two people of the same sex doing this same thing...thats what same sex marriage opponents dont understand. They think that mariage between a man and a woman is special...its not.

 

That's what happens when you willfully blow your brains out and stuff babble pages into the empty space. :Hmm:

 

We can't allow gay marriage! If we do, every major volcano will erupt at once, and Nazis will ride dinosaurs through the streets once again! :eek:

 

:lmao:

 

I remember reading a cynical usenet posting along the same lines... describing widespread riots in the streets, mass-gang-rape et cetera, and one of the raving criminals telling a reporter "Gays are now allowed to marry! Now I have no more moral restraints, so I must commit every crime possible! GaaaaaAAAAAAHHHH!!!"

 

T'was short and straight to the point, perfectly illuminating the sheer absurdity of that claim :pureevil:

 

I really haven't noticed this whole gay marriage thing having any effect on my marriage at all. Really, it's just the same as ever. No big hole opened up in the side of it or anything. We're just fine here.

 

Exactly. If Steve and Pete from next block marry, why should this have any negative effect on my marriage to sweet Islington? :scratch:

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Yeah, I have yet to figure out how a gay marriage would affect someone else's marriage. I know some married couples who are so far in Jesus ass can't make a move without the church telling them what to do including procreating. Could it be just maybe if gays were allowed to marry then these pastors who provide marriage counseling without a license or any training wouldn't have the old stand by cure to the marriage woes of telling them to go forth and multiply in order to bond them closer together.

 

Really what difference does it make if a couple, gay or hetrosexual marry? Frankly it is none of my business and I don't see how it would affect me what-so-ever.

 

What I am against is those folks who try to limit the freedoms of others because of their bigoted views.

 

For that matter, I could say those fundamentalist marriages that keep producing kid after kid after kid does affect me more. Why? More pollution, more people to tax an overtaxed social support system, the increase in my health insurance premiums each time another person is added to the group, etc. But do I say limit the number of children they can have, no because that is their right to do so.

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For that matter, I could say those fundamentalist marriages that keep producing kid after kid after kid does affect me more. Why? More pollution, more people to tax an overtaxed social support system, the increase in my health insurance premiums each time another person is added to the group, etc. But do I say limit the number of children they can have, no because that is their right to do so.

 

Yeah. And a lot of fundamentalists abuse their children too, and they have the gall to say things like gay people shouldn't be allowed to be parents. :ugh:

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Marraige hasn't had any sanctity since the year 2 A.D. or something...Now it is a legally binding contract, period.

 

Personally, I'm not the marrying kind. So I don't care if I ever get married. However, I would like to get married if I so chose...

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Sanctity, what the fuck is that?

 

Seriously.

 

I wasn't aware that something that doesn't exist could be erroded any further.

 

Personally, I'm not sure why the lesbian and gay crowd wants something that is so screwed up at this point. (and yes, I am being semi sarcastic. I can appreciate the legal benefits, that discriminate against singles). Still, why the big deal over something that appears to only have meaning as a political talking point?

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Sanctity, what the fuck is that?

 

Seriously.

 

I wasn't aware that something that doesn't exist could be erroded any further.

 

Personally, I'm not sure why the lesbian and gay crowd wants something that is so screwed up at this point. (and yes, I am being semi sarcastic. I can appreciate the legal benefits, that discriminate against singles). Still, why the big deal over something that appears to only have meaning as a political talking point?

 

 

Again I agree, I was just trying to see it through the christians eyes. Also yeah, any of you wanna help me out but why do gay people even want to be in the church and get married etc. if their stupid religion says you're evil. If they don't want you in their little club then why would you wanna be?

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I don't want to church wedding. I want to have my relationship recognized and have all the legally bestowed benifits that comes with marraige. To be able to tell the insurance industry "stick that in your actuarial tables". Beyond that, it's personal. I have no religous affiliation, although my partner is catholic, so I'd rather have it just here at home surrounded by my friends and family.

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Again

... why do gay people even want to be in the church and get married etc. if their stupid religion says you're evil. If they don't want you in their little club then why would you wanna be?

 

I ask myself that one a lot :shrug:

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sanctity shmanctity. just another example of christians adopting something from somewhere else, claiming it to be there own, then whining like little bitches when someone else wants to join in. marriage is not an invention of christianity.

 

i debate in another forum about gays pretty much every day. those people are wacko. they have yet to come up with a single good reason against gay people or gay marriage. any time that actually reach for any sort of a study, it's from some biased, gay hating, christian website. funny how nothing ever comes from the APA. the things i hear every day:

 

"gay sex isn't natural."

 

why yes, yes it is. go watch animal planet or pick up a national geographic. found all over the animal kingdom. regardless, if you hate things that aren't natural, don't ever have surgery. don't ever get cancer treatment. stop wearing corrective lenses, makeup, hair dye, etc, and stop eating shit like twinkies.

 

"kids need a male and female to be raised properly."

 

no, they really don't. so far, studies have shown kids raised by gay parents turn out just fine. in fact, they're less judgemental than SOME people. studies have also shown that there is no significant difference between a child living with a single mother or a single father. so much for the "he needs a man in his life" line.

 

"it's disgusting."

 

maybe to you. but two christians having sex disgusts me. i'm afraid they'll pop out a child and warp it's mind. others find fat people sex digusting. or ugly people sex disgusting. i doubt everyone using this reasoning is attractive and in shape, so STFU. hell, i bet some of them have anal sex themselves. that's not exactly natural, now is it?

 

and let's not forget that christians have pretty high divorce rate-higher than agnostic/atheists. you wanna save marriage? stop getting divorced, morons.

 

i really think a lot of christians are using it as a whipping boy, and a distracting for their own, sinful, pathetic lives. i'm sure we all know all of the verses that talk about not judging people for their sin, but it seems they always forget these. it's much more fun to make a big deal out of other people's sin, rather than examine your own life.

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Guest kaltesFeuer

AKR, you're right on.

 

I'm also constantly forum-fighting with some conservative bitches who constantly decry homosexuality as some sort of plague on their sacred institution of marriage. The best part is: none of them can EVER logically back up their arguments. Everything they say is a recycled version of what their pastors sicked-up in church last sunday. Even more than that, though, many of the X-ians I know are absolutely TERRIFIED of homos. It has something to do with not being comfortable with sex in any way, so much so that anything outside of the missionary position predictably illicits these amusing little gasps and shudders about how utterly 'evil' or perhaps 'demeaning' it is.

 

My favorite quote on the issue:

 

Against gay marriage? Then don't get one and shut the fuck up!

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