Kurari Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Darn, and I thought I gave some good points to chew on too. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 If God wanted to forgive us then why not just forgive us? Why was it necessary to create himself in human form (which presumably "created man in his own image" he was anyway) and then have that version of himself tortured and killed so we could be firgiven? He could of just done it. Is this some form of celestial self harm?? LOOK WORLD LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO TO MYSELF!!!!!! The apologist in me answers like this. 1. The bible says that the wages of sin is death. 2. Since God can't be around sin you are basically dead in God's eyes. 3. This is where the trade comes in. A life for a life. For you to save your life a life must be given. 4. Hence animal sacrifices and human sacrifices. The purer the scarifice the better. 5. To save the entire whole you need a really pure scarifice. So God sends himself in human form as a sacrifice for the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauggy Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 So the cross episode means two things. One it's God's way of showing, "See? I know being a human is tough and (ouch) I'm willing to do this to show you that I really do understand what you go through. I just ask you keep in touch." But he cheated. He gave himself physical advantages that other humans don't have. For example he lasted 40 days without food. If you can last 40 days without food, then what is being nailed to a cross going to do to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverclear5 Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 1. The bible says that the wages of sin is death. 2. Since God can't be around sin you are basically dead in God's eyes. 3. This is where the trade comes in. A life for a life. For you to save your life a life must be given. 4. Hence animal sacrifices and human sacrifices. The purer the scarifice the better. 5. To save the entire whole you need a really pure scarifice. So God sends himself in human form as a sacrifice for the world. The wages of sin is death??? If Mr. on high decided he wanted to forgive us are you saying he couldn't just do it???? Are you putting limitations on your all powerful saviour?? careful..... I can hear the church elders sharpening there heretic hooks! The wages of sin is death??? Except of course that Jesus came back from the dead didn't he. Doesn't that rather nullify the sacrifice. There was no giving up of his only son! He brought him back! plus even if he had died, in your mythology he would have gone back to his dads house in the sky anyway! If anything, he called his son and told him to come home for his tea..........for our sins! I grew up in a bullshit logic "christians that beleive in evolution house". Don't try to bullshit logic me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Are you putting limitations on your all powerful saviour?? careful..... I can hear the church elders sharpening there heretic hooks! Dude, I'm an atheist......calm down... I just wanted to offer a sorta small challenge. If god is perfect he supposedly can't be around something imperfect i.e. sin. So as far god is concerned the being that sins is dead. So if you sin, you are dead, hence the wages of sin is death. <---this explains points 1 and 2. The wages of sin is death???If Mr. on high decided he wanted to forgive us are you saying he couldn't just do it???? She could just forgive you but she still couldn't be around an imperfect being so the forgiveness would be pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverclear5 Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 [Dude, I'm an atheist......calm down... sorry, reflex action. [if god is perfect he supposedly can't be around something imperfect i.e. sin. So as far god is concerned the being that sins is dead. erm, why?? Sitting a perfect steak next to a crap one won't degrade it. Is god scared of infection by imperfection?? Sounds like another weakness to me. What possible reason is there for a perfect god to not be able (definitely a weakness) to be around the imperfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 So the cross episode means two things. One it's God's way of showing, "See? I know being a human is tough and (ouch) I'm willing to do this to show you that I really do understand what you go through. I just ask you keep in touch." But he cheated. He gave himself physical advantages that other humans don't have. For example he lasted 40 days without food. If you can last 40 days without food, then what is being nailed to a cross going to do to you? And...well, he's a god. He's immortal, even being nailed to a cross didn't kill him (permenantly). I guess the point of all that was he could still feel mortal pain? What would be the point of him coming if he ended up killing himself during the 40 days? Then again, maybe he didn't cheat. You can't really trust the Bible to give you accurate times of anything, can they? I mean, people living 900 years? I heard once the apologists view of this is they really meant MONTHS. So somebody who is 900 months is really 75 years old. So who knows, maybe 40 days they really meant minutes, or maybe they really meant just four...yeah...Jesus went on a weekend camping retreat with Satan and had a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen666 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 This is a bothering question and still no Christian posts. Anyway God is supposed to be all powerful , all knowing and NEVER make mistakes. I find it kind of odd that Jesus even needed to do this in reality there is no reason he needed to. God is not all loving in the first place either because it was God who cursed all of humanity. I did not say love, I said curse. God has made loads of mistakes and God even had to do the Jesus thing: My assumptions because of this: 1. God cannot therefore be all powerful because he had to the Jesus thing which makes no since when he could of just forgiven us. 2. God is blood happy, animals , people? That sounds like a cult to me in many ways 3. Jesus's sacrafice I know what it did , all it did was change the rules for Christians not neccesarily Jews. This is where I think the big problem lies between The Jews and The Christians. Jews don't believe in Jesus Christ ( I wonder why? sarcasim) however with the new Jesus thing in the New Testament that brings up a new way to get to heaven. All you have to do is believe in Jesus so now you can sin all you want but believe in Jesus so you can go to Heaven. In some ways in those times it sounds like you can get away with a lot now by just believeing in Jesus. The Jews beliefs is being a good moral person basically (not sinning in Christian logic) However the Old Testament (The Torah is vary bitter and so is God) Contradictions yes? But now a newer hip way to go to Heaven when Christians hijacked the Jewish belief system and made it there own. 4. Final thought God is a bitch because this absolutly weakens Gods character and the religion is split up(Jews vs Christians). This whole thing goes around in circles. However I know God is not all moral, The Bible is not perfect and is flawed despite what your preacher tells you ( Christians only) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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