Precious In His Sight

[Dave]

There was one of those hour long christian commercials on last night. It was entitled "Precious In His Sight." It was about children that have HIV and AIDS.

 

If this asinine god thought these kids were so precious, why did he give them HIV?

 

I couldn't watch more than two minutes of it before I got sick to my stomach.

[LosingMyReligion]

Now, that we TOTALLY agree on.

 

Yes, afflict little children with the worst disease possible and still have the audacity to say he loves them?

 

Give me a break.

[wonderer]

There was one of those hour long christian commercials on last night. It was entitled "Precious In His Sight." It was about children that have HIV and AIDS.

 

If this asinine god thought these kids were so precious, why did he give them HIV?

 

I couldn't watch more than two minutes of it before I got sick to my stomach.

 

He didn't give them HIV - their parents did.

 

 

Rob

[Dave]

There was one of those hour long christian commercials on last night. It was entitled "Precious In His Sight." It was about children that have HIV and AIDS.

 

If this asinine god thought these kids were so precious, why did he give them HIV?

 

I couldn't watch more than two minutes of it before I got sick to my stomach.

He didn't give them HIV - their parents did.

No. According to the believers, this god created everything. It created HIV. It gave it to the kids. If this joke of a god actually thought those kids were precious, it would have prevented them from contracting HIV. Since that god, or any other god, does not exist it is the followers of gods that are the problem.

[LosingMyReligion]

There was one of those hour long christian commercials on last night. It was entitled "Precious In His Sight." It was about children that have HIV and AIDS.

 

If this asinine god thought these kids were so precious, why did he give them HIV?

 

I couldn't watch more than two minutes of it before I got sick to my stomach.

 

He didn't give them HIV - their parents did.

 

 

Rob

 

He could have protected them from HIV if he was so almighty.

[smellincoffee]

Oh, he was just trying to teach all of those homosexuals in Africa a lesson. How evil they are, causing little children to be punished for their deviance. :-p

[weary traveler]

I know what you mean. This reminds me of a sermon I once heard that helped me question the all-knowing character of God. It was about honoring your parents. It basically said "God gave you your parents". Well for those of us from very abuse backgrounds, that is of little comfort even when we come to the place of forgiving them for wrongs. But like the other gentleman said, if the parents tranmitted AID/HIV to the children, and God is the one who is in control and gave those parents those kids, then indirectly at the very least (and directly at the worst), God did allow them to be born with a deadly disease. I often wonder about freewill in all this. Did those kids born like that have freewill to choose it? Or is it just that they have freewill to forgive or not forgive thier parents?

[currentchristian]

If this asinine god thought these kids were so precious, why did he give them HIV?

 

As a person who volunteered for an HIV vaccine study, was injected with experimental AIDS vaccine, and in fact learned of this study in the basement of a Christian church where nurses from the university research center gave a presentation, I have a right to say that I believe that God is not responsible for HIV. HIV happened. Like train wrecks happen and school buses plummet off interstate highways.

 

HIV spreads because we are unwilling to take responsibility for ourselves, be tested, and if we happen to be HIV +, stop having sex with others without warning them of our status and making full use of all available means of protection if consensual sexual relations happen. That's the problem. Recklessness. Ever read Randy Shilts' book And The Band Played On ? What an eye-opener to the failures of the gay male community, the scientific community, and the political community in American when HIV reared its ugle head in 1981.

 

Instead of blaming God for HIV, we all need to do more to educate ourselves and the world about HIV/AIDS and provide medicinal support for Africa in its battle against AIDS.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

 

 

According to the believers, this god created everything. It created HIV. It gave it to the kids. If this joke of a god actually thought those kids were precious, it would have prevented them from contracting HIV. Since that god, or any other god, does not exist it is the followers of gods that are the problem.

 

Every good and perfect gift comes from God. HIV is not "good" or "perfect" nor is it a "gift." Therefore, it did not come from God.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

 

 

Oh, he was just trying to teach all of those homosexuals in Africa a lesson. How evil they are, causing little children to be punished for their deviance. :-p

 

In Africa, AIDS is primarily a disease of heterosexuals, contracted by means of heterosexual sexual relations outside the bond of a monogamous relationship with another HIV negative person.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

[Dave]

....Every good and perfect gift comes from God. HIV is not "good" or "perfect" nor is it a "gift." Therefore, it did not come from God....

Then you are admitting the bible lied?

[currentchristian]

....Every good and perfect gift comes from God. HIV is not "good" or "perfect" nor is it a "gift." Therefore, it did not come from God....

Then you are admitting the bible lied?

 

No I am saying that only that which is good and perfect comes from That Which is Good and Perfect. Since HIV is neither "good" nor "perfect," it does not come from God. It was the anti-gay fundamentalists who, early in the epidemic, thought it might be from God as a punishment against homosexuals. That's definitely not my view.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

[StewartP]

No I am saying that only that which is good and perfect comes from That Which is Good and Perfect. Since HIV is neither "good" nor "perfect," it does not come from God. It was the anti-gay fundamentalists who, early in the epidemic, thought it might be from God as a punishment against homosexuals. That's definitely not my view.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

 

No. What you say?

 

HIV is neither "good" nor "perfect," it does not come from God.

How about Polio? good?

Malaria then, he's actually a beastie not a mere virus so God must made him. Not good?

 

You can't go around, you personally, deciding for us which of these nasties were from God and which were train crashes. Either God's in control of this ball of rock hurtling thru space or he isn't.

 

Which is it?

[Dave]

....Every good and perfect gift comes from God. HIV is not "good" or "perfect" nor is it a "gift." Therefore, it did not come from God....

Then you are admitting the bible lied?

No I am saying that only that which is good and perfect comes from That Which is Good and Perfect. ......

Then you are admitting the bible lied. I quote: "Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." According to the bible it's god created everything. It makes no distinction between good or bad. Your rationalization doesn't stand up to honest inquiry.

[currentchristian]

How about Polio? good?

Malaria then, he's actually a beastie not a mere virus so God must made him. Not good?

 

You can't go around, you personally, deciding for us which of these nasties were from God and which were train crashes. Either God's in control of this ball of rock hurtling thru space or he isn't.

 

Which is it?

 

These are just my views, StewartP. Not trying to make anyone see it this way. But to me, God set the "whole ball of wax" in motion. But our ecosystem (in fact, our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, and our universe) are ruled by laws over which no one has control, not even God -- until the experiment is over. That's just how I take it. For me, Jesus bore our infirmities; it's only a matter of time, I hope, that the theory is fully applied and disease and dying will be things of the past.

 

Again, that's how I see it. Everyone has a right to see it as they see it.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

 

....Every good and perfect gift comes from God. HIV is not "good" or "perfect" nor is it a "gift." Therefore, it did not come from God....

Then you are admitting the bible lied?

No I am saying that only that which is good and perfect comes from That Which is Good and Perfect. ......

Then you are admitting the bible lied. I quote: "Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." According to the bible it's god created everything. It makes no distinction between good or bad. Your rationalization doesn't stand up to honest inquiry.

 

Well, there are many views about that. One is that the creation story is fiction, made up to teach a catechism that "God is the ultimate source." Another view is that this story reflects a great truth and that at some point creation was "very good," and later became, as St. Paul put it, "subjected to futility" and even "groans awaiting deliverance."

 

Whatever one's view on these two points, or my view on these two points, I am not equipped to judge God. I will wait for the healing.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

[StewartP]

 

These are just my views, StewartP. Not trying to make anyone see it this way. But to me, God set the "whole ball of wax" in motion. But our ecosystem (in fact, our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, and our universe) are ruled by laws over which no one has control, not even God -- until the experiment is over. That's just how I take it. For me, Jesus bore our infirmities; it's only a matter of time, I hope, that the theory is fully applied and disease and dying will be things of the past.

 

Again, that's how I see it. Everyone has a right to see it as they see it.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

 

cc - I apologise if I come over all sarkie and agressive. I have said before that I respect your attitude.

 

But you are not making a good case for your God. because now, you see us all as lab rats.

 

If God has no control over his experiment, then he's not much of a God.

 

regards

 

Stew

[currentchristian]

cc - I apologise if I come over all sarkie and agressive. I have said before that I respect your attitude.

 

But you are not making a good case for your God. because now, you see us all as lab rats.

 

If God has no control over his experiment, then he's not much of a God.

 

regards

 

Stew

 

Hi Stew, You didn't come across as "sarkie and agressive" at all. You were debating! Seeing us as "lab rats" is a bit weird, I admit. But it's sortta how I see it and sortta how I don't. I just read today one of Oscar Wilde's wild quotes: "Ah! Don't say you agree with me. When people agree with me. I always feel that I must be wrong."

 

Oscar Wilde also said that "Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them." I think sometimes we have the same relationship with God.

 

Go ahead, Stew, challenge me!

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

[StewartP]

Go ahead, Stew, challenge me!

 

Ha ha! That's neither my job nor my responsibility, you can do it yourself!

 

Seeing us as "lab rats" is a bit weird, I admit. But it's sortta how I see it and sortta how I don't. I just read today one of Oscar Wilde's wild quotes: "Ah! Don't say you agree with me. When people agree with me. I always feel that I must be wrong."

 

Oscar Wilde also said that "Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them." I think sometimes we have the same relationship with God.

 

You see the Marx quote in my sig about principles? I think you're a bit like that That's why you're hard to pin down in an argument. If I say "but cc, don't you see when you say you believe 'X' you're contradicting the bible" you reply "ah, stew, I didn't say I believe 'X', it's more kinda 'Y'-like."

 

The problem is I see the label "christian" and I assume you fit my picture of christian. There are, of course, no rules or regs or template that says what & which you have to adhere to to be christian, but on the sliding scale from full-on fundie to "jesus was a wise guru" the more one is to the guru end of the scale, the less claim one has to the label "christian"

 

In my opinion.

 

regards

 

Stew

 

(edited for spelling)

[Dave]

....Well, there are many views about that.

yes, many try to make excuses. I don't buy any of them.

One is that the creation story is fiction, made up to teach a catechism that "God is the ultimate source."

If that part is fiction, and then how can you tell which part is fiction and what part isn't? Are only the parts you dislike fiction? Are only the parts that don't fit into your view of what you want the world to be, fiction?

Another view is that this story reflects a great truth and that at some point creation was "very good," and later became, as St. Paul put it, "subjected to futility" and even "groans awaiting deliverance."

Why would a god do that?

Whatever one's view on these two points, or my view on these two points, I am not equipped to judge God. I will wait for the healing.

I don't have to wait. I am equipped to judge any god. The christian one has been judged and found lacking in integrity, morals, and substance.

[Guest aginghipster]

Aids was manufactured in Ft. Dietrich Maryland in 1967 with assistance from a mad scientist. The plan was to affect homosexuals and minorities as a means to lower the population!

[Warrior_of_god]

I have a right to say that I believe that God is not responsible for HIV.

Yes but your all knowing god knows about it. I am not responsible for the 600,000+ Iraqis dead now but I know about it. If someone knows about a terrible thing and does nothing can they really not be held accountable?

[Dave]

Aids was manufactured in Ft. Dietrich Maryland in 1967 with assistance from a mad scientist. The plan was to affect homosexuals and minorities as a means to lower the population!

Do you even know what AIDS is? From the above, it is obvious you don't.

 

 

I have a right to say that I believe that God is not responsible for HIV.

Yes but your all knowing god knows about it. I am not responsible for the 600,000+ Iraqis dead now but I know about it. If someone knows about a terrible thing and does nothing can they really not be held accountable?

YES! If that "person" is claimed to be an omniscient and omnibenevolent "supreme" being that created the entire Universe and everything in it, then it is responsible and must be held accountable. The problem is that that being does not exist.

[Warrior_of_god]

It is lose-lose for the christians on this issue, if they admit he is all knowing they shoot themselves in the foot and they cannot admit he dosent exist.

[currentchristian]

If that part is fiction, and then how can you tell which part is fiction and what part isn't? Are only the parts you dislike fiction? Are only the parts that don't fit into your view of what you want the world to be, fiction

 

Application of the tools of the historian help. Employing one's reason and common sense help, too. But you make a very good point. It's not easy. Some things are essential; some things are not.

 

Take Jonah, for example. He may have been a real person and the story in the writing by his name may be as real as the sun is. Or it may be just that, a story. Either way, it doesn't matter in terms of the lessons of Jonah: 1. God is more inclusive that we imagine (remember Jonah didn't want those evil Ninevahites saved); 2. God's will ultimately triumphs; and 3. We can be selfish creatures. These are the points.

 

Whether or not Adam and Eve really existed, in history, doesn't matter. What they and their story represent, however, is an urgent point, a truth as I see it: Something is amiss, and a cosmic struggle is underway.

 

-currentchristian in massachusetts

[Dave]

It is lose-lose for the christians on this issue, if they admit he is all knowing they shoot themselves in the foot and they cannot admit he dosent exist.

The "problem of evil" is an old argument they haven't been able to solve. Every time they try they just dig a deeper hole.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?"

[Legion]

Whether or not Adam and Eve really existed, in history, doesn't matter. What they and their story represent, however, is an urgent point, a truth as I see it: Something is amiss, and a cosmic struggle is underway.

Please excuse me for just jumping in here CC. I think these are some rather interesting comments. Please let me ask, what is amiss?

[Dave]

If that part is fiction, and then how can you tell which part is fiction and what part isn't? Are only the parts you dislike fiction? Are only the parts that don't fit into your view of what you want the world to be, fiction

Application of the tools of the historian help. Employing one's reason and common sense help, too.

And when those tools are used honestly and without reservation, the bible ceases to be anything other than an unreliable religious text.

Take Jonah, for example. He may have been a real person and the story in the writing by his name may be as real as the sun is. Or it may be just that, a story. Either way, it doesn't matter in terms of the lessons of Jonah: 1. God is more inclusive that we imagine (remember Jonah didn't want those evil Ninevahites saved); 2. God's will ultimately triumphs; and 3. We can be selfish creatures. These are the points.

We are not selfish creatures. That's a generalization and a religious bias I'm not falling for. The god stuff in the story means nothing until you prove the god to exist.

Whether or not Adam and Eve really existed, in history, doesn't matter. What they and their story represent, however, is an urgent point, a truth as I see it: Something is amiss, and a cosmic struggle is underway.

Since the god does not exist there is no reason to repent. The whole story is designed to tell you that you are a worthless. vile, sinful, person and the only way to be more than that is through this specific religion. It's a lie. I am not going to base my life on a book that lies.